❤️‍🔥 Hot Beeper Summer
blog.beeper.com
Our quest to make Beeper the best chat app on Earth continues. Recap the progress we’ve made, ICYMI.

I was on the beta testing team and have been using Beeper for a little over two years now.

The convenience of having an application to house all of your chat networks is amazing.

  • Rbon@lemmy.sdf.org
    2·
    2 years ago

    While I agree that it would be nice to only have one app installed in order to chat with everyone, the fact that it’s not open source makes me question the privacy involved. I’ve already sold my soul to these individual chat apps. I’d rather not compound that problem.

    • Geronimo Wenja@agora.nop.chat
      2·
      2 years ago

      The bridges are all open source, and they use matrix synapse as their server installation - though their client is a closed source fork of element with changes. You can use any matrix client to connect to it, and they say it’s a standard synapse setup.

      If privacy is a concern, bringing your own client should remove that concern as the rest is open source. It’s also e2e encrypted, as any matrix server is.

      I self host my own matrix homeserver with bridges set up using their code. The only bit of their stack I can’t use is the client. I don’t like that that’s closed source, that’s frustrating.

      Edit: while writing this two more people made the same comment. Sorry!

      • jarfil@beehaw.org
        0·
        2 years ago

        closed source fork of element with changes

        🚩🚩🚩

        e2e encrypted

        More like “e2mitm2e” encrypted, with the mitm being the bridges.

        If the target network doesn’t support encryption, that’s “e2mitm2null”… does it at least alert you in that case?

        • krolden@lemmy.ml
          0·
          2 years ago

          Then run your own matrix instance with these bridges that they maintain for the community.

          • jarfil@beehaw.org
            1·
            2 years ago

            That still doesn’t fix the e2e problem. Just because only me, and let’s hope not too many others who manage to break into the instance, can mitm everything, doesn’t make the mitm go away.

            There really should be a standard, or at least a set of standards, on how to do e2e, so the bridges would only need to route the messages.

      • pitninja@lemmy.pit.ninja
        0·
        2 years ago

        Beeper’s server set up is actually a lot more complicated than just standard Synapse at this point. When they say you can “self host Beeper” that’s really not accurate at this point at all. All of their 3rd party chat bridges are dynamically spun up on a per user basis with hungryserv and those servers operate in parallel with a synapse server for Matrix interoperability all behind a roomserv server. Here’s a presentation that one of their lead developers created regarding their new architecture.

          • chipt4@beehaw.org
            0·
            2 years ago

            It looks like they’re slides from a powerpoint style presentation… in the following frames, the light grey text is legible. Still, not a good way to present that data, heh. Stuff like that irks me so bad

        • Geronimo Wenja@agora.nop.chat
          0·
          2 years ago

          Most of that extra stuff is there to handle user contact privacy and security with the bridges, which is fair. I don’t have any interest in self hosting beepers full setup, I want to get the functionality of multiple messaging services in one client - which I have, with my self-hosted matrix instance and the bridges they help develop and maintain.

          I wish all of it was open source, but I did feel it necessary to head off comments that imply that the entire thing is closed source. Their implementation around dynamic servers and isolated containers spinning up isn’t really the bit that seems relevant regarding user privacy with regards to data scraping or anything. There are a lot of comments in here implying it’s fully proprietary, but there’s a lot more nuance to it than that, as you point out.

          Personally, I think it’d be nice if you could self-host just the bridge instances and connect them with beeper yourself, so that the part that isn’t e2e encrypted is running on software you can validate and hardware you control.

          • pitninja@lemmy.pit.ninjaEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            Personally, I think it’d be nice if you could self-host just the bridge instances and connect them with beeper yourself, so that the part that isn’t e2e encrypted is running on software you can validate and hardware you control.

            I 100% agree this would be a great solution. That’s what I thought this page was going to be at first until I kept reading and realized it’s just a config guide for the Matrix Ansible setup. I wish they didn’t say “self host Beeper” on that page at all because self hosting Matrix has absolutely nothing to do with the Beeper service other than their devs built the bridges that they’re showing you how to set up with Matrix.

  • YⓄ乙 @aussie.zone
    1·
    2 years ago

    The biggest question of all,- Is it Open source ?

    My phone will only installs opensource apps.

        • imsodin@infosec.pubEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          Looks like the client isn’t, but they do offer a simple-way to self-host the backend (looks like it’s “just” a matrix server and a bunch of bridges) and then you can use any open-source matrix client to connect to that. Seems like a pretty good balance of a way to make money and the guts being open enough that one could move if the client/company goes side-ways, while contributing a lot to the open-source community.

      • PupBiru@kbin.social
        0·
        2 years ago

        their clients are proprietary but it’s built on matrix (federated chat kinda like xmpp) and their bridges (things that connect matrix to other protocols) are open source

        they say you can use any matrix client, and that you can host your own home server with their bridges

        • cerothem@lemmy.ca
          0·
          2 years ago

          I have my own matrix server that I primarily use like beeper and bridge all my chats together. Even using some of their bridges, it’s been pretty reliable for years.

          I know that a few people are hating on the closed source client, but that feels unfair to me. They provide lots of open code in the form of bridges which is really the meat of the offering. Their client just makes using the bridges easier for the lay person. The bridges are super easy to use without it, invite the bridge bot to a chat room, type login and do what it says, then type login-matrix and your pretty much done.

          The I suspect that the same people who are displeased about the closed client also like using tailscale which is generally pretty popular but has closed source clients on Windows and Mac as well as the server (though all support the open source headscale server)

          • PupBiru@kbin.social
            0·
            2 years ago

            yeah… pragmatism beats purity every time: they’re doing some great work, but to do that great work they have to fund it somehow… i think that open sourcing all of the functional components (the bridges) and keeping the shiny UI closed is a pretty good way of doing that!

            i guess i get not wanting to used closed source clients too, but it’s shades of grey: people shouldn’t hate on them for keeping 1 part closed source!

            • jarfil@beehaw.org
              0·
              2 years ago

              Only problem is, the average user gets hooked to the shiny UI, not to the invisible backend.

              When Microsoft bought Skype, they switched from a secure P2P network to a server-centered network easy to mitm… and the majority of users said nothing. Later on, they switched a few UI elements, and suddenly there was a user uproar.

              If Beeper gains any traction, a shiny privative UI is their out to monetize/enshittify the service.

              • PupBiru@kbin.social
                0·
                2 years ago

                sure, but an open source UI isn’t going to change that… they’d just close the source!

                sure you can fork it, but you can also just copy the UI to an open source clone

                imagine if twitter were activitypub: kinda like having an OSS backend with a proprietary front end… i’d bet the move to mastodon would be far quicker… network effects keep people on twitter… same here with OSS backend: we can reimplement the UI and people will have the same experience

                • jarfil@beehaw.org
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  Based on the history of how Google Chat used XMPP to federate and basically siphon users into its closed UI, then defederate… I no longer trust anyone with a closed UI that’s planning to offer “extra value” to its users.

                  If someone closed their open UI, you can always fork the last open version, which at least gives you an even start.

                  If Twitter 𝕏 were to switch to ActivityPub… I’d actually worry about people flocking back to 𝕏, back to their old networks and recommendation algorithms. Guess it’s no longer possible, since 𝕏 pretty much destroyed the old Twitter environment, but I’d still worry… and with Elon wanting to make 𝕏 a “social network for everything”, that sounds dangerously close to ActivityPub.

    • Chris Remington@beehaw.orgOPEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      They will be offering a premium subscription offer for more bells and whistles other than the free option…I don’t know anything about user betrayals conducted by Beeper.

          • Mugmoor@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            1·
            2 years ago

            You have no way of verifying that the client is only doing what it claims. The Open Source community is highly suspicious of proprietary software, doubly so when it’s based off of Open Source code.

            If youre okay with that then no worries, but ofr myself and many others it’s an absolute deal breaker.

            • cerothem@lemmy.ca
              0·
              2 years ago

              To be fair, the client they provide to make bridging more accessible is proprietary, however you can fire up a fresh copy of element and connect it if you want and just use the text interface.

              The clients are closed so that they have something to sell and profit. Not everyone can afford to give their time away for free.

                • cerothem@lemmy.ca
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  Is there a reason you couldn’t use either use a self hosted or the public hosted copy of element or an Android/iOS app and connect it directly to the beeper synapse/dendrite server?

                  Their clients are just closed forks of element anyways.

    • sawdustprophet
      0·
      2 years ago

      Ok but why is the thumbnail a scene from Midsommar…

      Probably because the leading image is taken from Midsommar.

    • Sordid@beehaw.org
      0·
      2 years ago

      I’m skeptical. Trillian still exists, but hardly anyone uses it. It can’t connect to a bunch of services because their operators decided to disable third-party access, and I remember that even back in the day it was constantly playing catch-up with network updates that broke compatibility. “One chat app to rule them all” is a neat idea, but I don’t see it working in practice.

      • Seathru@beehaw.org
        0·
        2 years ago

        Yeah, it’s been so long now I don’t remember why I stopped using Trillian (and Pidgin). But when it worked, it was so much nicer just to have one program running vs 5.

        • Sordid@beehaw.org
          0·
          2 years ago

          It was great while it lasted, but I stopped using Trillian simply because people stopped using the networks it supported. I used it for ICQ, AIM, Yahoo Messenger, and MSN Messenger. The latter three don’t even exist anymore, and ICQ is a shadow of its former self owned by some Russians now. Some people migrated over to Skype, some I just lost contact with altogether. Thinking back to those carefree days fills me with a strange sense of melancholy. It all seems to have gone wrong somewhere along the way, and not just in terms of IM apps.

          • Seathru@beehaw.org
            0·
            2 years ago

            Thinking back to those carefree days fills me with a strange sense of melancholy. It all seems to have gone wrong somewhere along the way, and not just in terms of IM apps.

            Same here. And I can’t put my finger on it. I always dismissed it as coming of age and lifestyle changes.

      • zhunk@beehaw.org
        0·
        2 years ago

        I used to use Disa, I think until the FB messenger connection broke? I hate that I have 6 apps in my IMs folder.

  • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
    0·
    2 years ago

    Been using their bridges for over 2 years, super happy that I no longer need WhatsApp installed on my phone.

    If you’re like me and live in a country where a shitty chat application is required to be able to function in society, software like this is a breath of fresh air. The bridges are also super stable and incredibly well written.

    Note: to be clear, I don’t use beeper itself, but use their open source bridges (what beeper is using internally) on my own self hosted Matrix server.

    • krolden@lemmy.ml
      0·
      2 years ago

      The one thing that sucks about bridging and is never likely to be solved is voice calls through bridges. Theres really no good way to implement it as you would essentially need to have the bridge call you through matrix after you get a WhatsApp call.

      • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
        0·
        2 years ago

        Yes, this is very correct.

        As a person who’s been using said bridges as his primary form of contact for years, it’s very difficult to tell people: “Hey, I’m not actually reachable on Whatsapp/Signal/Telegram, please just call me instead”.

        As a result, I have a backup “net phone” in one of my cupboards with each of those apps installed. If I’m dealing with a particularly stubborn person I have to use it as a fall back.

        So, while I love these bridges, your comment is completely valid and anyone thinking of using them should be aware of that.

        TLDR, my Matrix chats are filled with:

        Person A (WA): Incoming call

        Me: I don’t have whatsapp, needs to be a normal call :(

        Person A (WA): Ok. Calling in five minutes.

        • neutron@thelemmy.club
          0·
          2 years ago

          It gets even funnier when the other person can’t even distinguish between a phone call and a whatsapp voice call.

          Me: I can’t answer WA calls, I will call you back.

          Person: What???

          • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
            0·
            2 years ago

            Yeah, as a result I just see matrix + Tulir’s bridges as a system that I’ve deployed just for me.

            I get all my chat networks in one place, and others get to see me online on their networks of choice. Not perfect, but not the worst.

            And it’s leagues ahead of Trillian and the rest of those older solutions.

        • krolden@lemmy.ml
          0·
          2 years ago

          Yeah this is especially difficult if you’re dealing with people overseas who have generally bad cellular voice service. I’ve had to relaunch whatsapp in another profile on my phone just to answer their calls.

    • fearout@kbin.social
      0·
      2 years ago

      Why do you feel like matrix has failed? I joined it recently and to me it looks like it’s kinda growing.

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.org
        0·
        2 years ago

        Well… I said ‘kinda failed’. Synapse is still way too slow. And the new dendrite server is still not up to spec. Joining large rooms is still gives me a headache. I can’t easily protect DDoS or spam accounts. I was forced to basically close registrations my Matrix server. And Dendrite is not yet production ready which is a shame… Don’t get me wrong, I do like Matrix in general. I just hope my previous remarks are taken seriously by their devs.

          • melroy@kbin.melroy.org
            0·
            2 years ago

            yea… you are right. It “sort of failed” at some point, because I’m waiting for Matrix to solve these issues for more then 6 years now… basically since the start…

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.org
        0·
        2 years ago

        Great! Good to hear you use Pidgin! I love using it in the past as well… I now use Matrix mainly. Should I go back to Pidgin?

    • philpo@feddit.de
      0·
      2 years ago

      How did Matrix fail?

      It’s the base for numerous messengers used by governments around the world, it has a userbase of more than 70 million core users (not counting the various closed messengers). Various competitors (e.g. Rocket Chat) have changed their base to Matrix.

      And Beeper is Matrix with Bridges (which you absolutely could deploy yourself). In theory anyone could recreate the Beeper functionality with existing other apps/bridges AND be able to communicate with Beeper on their native standard - Matrix.

    • jarfil@beehaw.org
      0·
      2 years ago

      Pidgin didn’t use bridges, it tried to be “all the possible clients in one”… with closed source protocols… which went south, fast. It still works for some, though.

      Matrix is running just fine, it doesn’t have the infinite flexibility of XMPP which made XMPP clients incompatible with each other, so as long as it doesn’t jump the shark, it’s just a matter of time to drive adoption.

    • Geronimo Wenja@agora.nop.chat
      0·
      2 years ago

      You can use any matrix client with beeper according to their FAQ. It’s frustrating that they forked element and kept the source code closed, but it is Apache 2.0, so it’s not against the licence terms.

  • shapis@lemmy.ml
    0·
    2 years ago

    Got in yesterday. iMessage is working fine through it. I wonder for how long if this gets traction.

  • liajack@feddit.ro
    0·
    2 years ago

    Why juggle multiple messaging apps when you can have all your conversations in one place? SocialSmartly is the solution you’ve been waiting for. 😍