It’s like being a non-smoker on a party where everybody smokes. Almost nobody wants to hear that they’re doing something wrong.
Toxicity is literally in the non-vegan community, warming up the climate and all, decreasing biodiversity, mistreating and killing animals for pleasure.
You see, when you come into a comment thread defending your stance and still decide you need to act like a cunt, that’s exactly why people don’t like vegan communities.
Why not just agree and say “hey yeah, great lifestyle”?
This is everyone’s gripe from the outside. You do you, live a healthy life. Make a good case and many of us will even agree with you: it’s an admittedly healthier pick and better for the earth. But for some reason we can’t stop there, can we?
You can’t say, hey I don’t smoke, it’s not good for you, here’s a source. And then I say “Hey thanks!”. Instead, if you want to be on team vegan, we have to all agree that cigarettes are not just bad for the atmosphere and for lung health, but ALSO that smoking is innately capitalist and supports a corrupt economic structure, it’s mean to tobacco leaves, marijuana and tobacco are the same and have equal rights, using hemp is morally outrageous (just as bad as hurting tobacco leaves), and now we have to call all smokers “smokists” as if to imply that the only thing they ever breathe is smoke, that way we can really show our distaste.
There would be so many more vegans and vegetarians if the communities could just take the win of the lifestyle without requiring the morality and politics at the gate. It’s telling to me that the vegan communities that vegans like the most are on hexbear (defederated by everyone for their assholery) and vegan theory club where the mod/instance admin has a ton of comments signed “death to america” and basically requires political adherence in the comment section lest your comment be deleted.
Well, it is still affecting my planet, and that of my children and future grandchildren. So no, I will not leave it be, thank you. Also, somebody needs to step up for animals who cannot defend themselves. Therefore it is not over with ‘you do you’, it stretches further than that.
Of course, there’s no shortage of battles to fight. What I’m saying is take those battles to their own battleground. Climate change? Sure let’s get after it. Animal rights? Also yes, no reason for unnecessary cruelty whether you eat them or not. But if I agree to eat less meat for any reason, even if it’s the wrong reason or an incomplete reason, you WON that battle. Same if I decide I won’t drink milk, but I still want to eat fish. Or if I decide I’m not going to wear clothing made from animal products. Just take the W and keep the possibility of future conversation. You get literally nothing by saying “Aha, you agree with me, but not absolutely / for the wrong reasons, you fucking carnist” except whatever warm fuzzies it brings you. You can’t one-shot win the war with most people, so why poison the water for some narcissistic dopamine hit and prevent earnest discussion in the future?
Telling people things they don’t want to hear will never make you popular of course, but I believe in the power of repetition. I don’t do this for some dopamine fix, I’m just the guy that points at the iceberg while being called a party pooper on the Titanic. I think it is important to say so, even when people plug their ears singing lalala. Hopefully the course will change a little bit, and some people make it out on the life boats.
But its possible to do that without being an absolute asshole that goes for all or nothing. You eat meat once a month? Literally the same as Liver King. Its this sort of Attitude that pisses people of.
You’ve got some nerve to call me an absolute asshole and think that you’ve got the right attitude. Also, your all or nothing comparison is ridiculous, no clue where you picked that up in the limited comment I made. I dare you to come with arguments against mine instead of preconceived judgement of people who try to make the world a better place by not eating animal products.
I wasn’t calling you an absolute asshole. This was never my I tention. This was more of a general statement.statement.goes for the second part, because some vegans do be like that.
Alright, no harm done. Only the vegans I happen to know are very empathic people who generally care deeply about the wellbeing of animals. Therefore they themselves are hurt quite a bit in the non-vegan world they’re living in. Some of them can’t even bear to sit at the same table where someone else is eating dead animals that have had a miserable life and death. I started changing my diet due to climate and biodiversity reasons (basically out of a responsibility for future generations), but the more I learn about how poorly our massive livestock is treated, the worse it gets. It’s now to the point where this tasty lump of cheese that everyone else is seeing is smeared with blood and tears in my eyes. So I protest when vegans are being portrayed as the bad guys in this day and age.
I don’t have a problem with vegans myself. The ones I know in real life are all good persons which are capable of having a conversation that doesn’t escalate in 3 minutes. However, it happens to be that most vegans I encountered online seem to be absolute assholes, that have some sort of an all or nothing attitude. They aren’t interested in changing someone’s beliefs and habits. They want to have the moral highground and mock about everyone else. Of course industriall farming is bad, but you don’t change anyone’s beliefs by being an asshole and insulting others. And you aren’t able to change someone’s habits against their will.
Hard to follow your reasoning, I was the one getting insulted, at no point did I insult anyone. I presented facts, if people are offended by them that’s up to them. Too bad that people don’t really care about facts but are more influenced by image building that matches their preconceived ideas. But still, facts are the only basis we have in intelligent discussions. And I don’t think I am better than anyone else (again, where did you pick that notion up?) but I do see all the problems that we currently have which are caused by ourselves. You know, people and cattle forming 97% of landbased mammal biomass, all the elephants, giraffes, mice, deer etc. come out of the remaining 3%. More than 75% of all agricultural area spent on cattle. This is all because we like to eat meat preferably daily, once only reserved for the wealthy, perhaps once a week for middle class. The way we are eating is just not sustainable and has to change, but people are consiously deaf for this notion. Blaming the people that do see this cause and effect.
You’re not too bad about jumping to conclusions yourself. Perhaps it’s time to postpone judgement until you really get to know someone, instead of forming an opinion about someone based on a post or two.
It was my intention to provide some information on the subject, is that it doesn’t match your perception how you justify your dietary habits that makes it not nice to hear about it? Similar to a smoker who doesn’t want to hear how bad it is to smoke, not only for themselves but also for their environment, including health care later in life? Anyway, we’re in the middle of a worldwide climate crisis that can easily wipe out humankind, hurting innocent animals in the process, and you’re only interested if someone is being nice or not? You’re clearly missing the point here.
while you can’t prove a negative, it is possible to find evidence for a positive claim. so, very much, you don’t know that. the truest thing anyone can say is that there is not a conclusive study that supports the claim.
Even if plants might feel pain, we are certain that animals feel pain. Also if you think for whatever reason that plants feel pain, then, well, a vegan diet uses less plants because its a more efficient food source. Plants feeling pain, whether true or false, isn’t an argument against veganism in any way.
They don’t, but they also kinda do … They communicate with each other and with animals, they have different chemical reactions to different stimuli, etc. just because they’re different from you doesn’t mean they don’t suffer. Probably less than factory animals, that’s for sure, ofc. But not everyone that eats meat supports that shit.
It’s like being a non-smoker on a party where everybody smokes. Almost nobody wants to hear that they’re doing something wrong. Toxicity is literally in the non-vegan community, warming up the climate and all, decreasing biodiversity, mistreating and killing animals for pleasure.
You see, when you come into a comment thread defending your stance and still decide you need to act like a cunt, that’s exactly why people don’t like vegan communities.
That didn’t seem particularly cunt-ish to me.
Yeah I don’t get all these crazy harsh responses to this particular comment.
They specifically responded to someone who has dietary issues and tried to make them feel bad for something OP didn’t choose.
Literally no reason to add the last part except to make themselves feel superior.
You just can’t help yourself can you?
Why not just agree and say “hey yeah, great lifestyle”?
This is everyone’s gripe from the outside. You do you, live a healthy life. Make a good case and many of us will even agree with you: it’s an admittedly healthier pick and better for the earth. But for some reason we can’t stop there, can we?
You can’t say, hey I don’t smoke, it’s not good for you, here’s a source. And then I say “Hey thanks!”. Instead, if you want to be on team vegan, we have to all agree that cigarettes are not just bad for the atmosphere and for lung health, but ALSO that smoking is innately capitalist and supports a corrupt economic structure, it’s mean to tobacco leaves, marijuana and tobacco are the same and have equal rights, using hemp is morally outrageous (just as bad as hurting tobacco leaves), and now we have to call all smokers “smokists” as if to imply that the only thing they ever breathe is smoke, that way we can really show our distaste.
There would be so many more vegans and vegetarians if the communities could just take the win of the lifestyle without requiring the morality and politics at the gate. It’s telling to me that the vegan communities that vegans like the most are on hexbear (defederated by everyone for their assholery) and vegan theory club where the mod/instance admin has a ton of comments signed “death to america” and basically requires political adherence in the comment section lest your comment be deleted.
Well, it is still affecting my planet, and that of my children and future grandchildren. So no, I will not leave it be, thank you. Also, somebody needs to step up for animals who cannot defend themselves. Therefore it is not over with ‘you do you’, it stretches further than that.
Of course, there’s no shortage of battles to fight. What I’m saying is take those battles to their own battleground. Climate change? Sure let’s get after it. Animal rights? Also yes, no reason for unnecessary cruelty whether you eat them or not. But if I agree to eat less meat for any reason, even if it’s the wrong reason or an incomplete reason, you WON that battle. Same if I decide I won’t drink milk, but I still want to eat fish. Or if I decide I’m not going to wear clothing made from animal products. Just take the W and keep the possibility of future conversation. You get literally nothing by saying “Aha, you agree with me, but not absolutely / for the wrong reasons, you fucking carnist” except whatever warm fuzzies it brings you. You can’t one-shot win the war with most people, so why poison the water for some narcissistic dopamine hit and prevent earnest discussion in the future?
Telling people things they don’t want to hear will never make you popular of course, but I believe in the power of repetition. I don’t do this for some dopamine fix, I’m just the guy that points at the iceberg while being called a party pooper on the Titanic. I think it is important to say so, even when people plug their ears singing lalala. Hopefully the course will change a little bit, and some people make it out on the life boats.
But its possible to do that without being an absolute asshole that goes for all or nothing. You eat meat once a month? Literally the same as Liver King. Its this sort of Attitude that pisses people of.
You’ve got some nerve to call me an absolute asshole and think that you’ve got the right attitude. Also, your all or nothing comparison is ridiculous, no clue where you picked that up in the limited comment I made. I dare you to come with arguments against mine instead of preconceived judgement of people who try to make the world a better place by not eating animal products.
I wasn’t calling you an absolute asshole. This was never my I tention. This was more of a general statement.statement.goes for the second part, because some vegans do be like that.
Alright, no harm done. Only the vegans I happen to know are very empathic people who generally care deeply about the wellbeing of animals. Therefore they themselves are hurt quite a bit in the non-vegan world they’re living in. Some of them can’t even bear to sit at the same table where someone else is eating dead animals that have had a miserable life and death. I started changing my diet due to climate and biodiversity reasons (basically out of a responsibility for future generations), but the more I learn about how poorly our massive livestock is treated, the worse it gets. It’s now to the point where this tasty lump of cheese that everyone else is seeing is smeared with blood and tears in my eyes. So I protest when vegans are being portrayed as the bad guys in this day and age.
I don’t have a problem with vegans myself. The ones I know in real life are all good persons which are capable of having a conversation that doesn’t escalate in 3 minutes. However, it happens to be that most vegans I encountered online seem to be absolute assholes, that have some sort of an all or nothing attitude. They aren’t interested in changing someone’s beliefs and habits. They want to have the moral highground and mock about everyone else. Of course industriall farming is bad, but you don’t change anyone’s beliefs by being an asshole and insulting others. And you aren’t able to change someone’s habits against their will.
Hard to follow your reasoning, I was the one getting insulted, at no point did I insult anyone. I presented facts, if people are offended by them that’s up to them. Too bad that people don’t really care about facts but are more influenced by image building that matches their preconceived ideas. But still, facts are the only basis we have in intelligent discussions. And I don’t think I am better than anyone else (again, where did you pick that notion up?) but I do see all the problems that we currently have which are caused by ourselves. You know, people and cattle forming 97% of landbased mammal biomass, all the elephants, giraffes, mice, deer etc. come out of the remaining 3%. More than 75% of all agricultural area spent on cattle. This is all because we like to eat meat preferably daily, once only reserved for the wealthy, perhaps once a week for middle class. The way we are eating is just not sustainable and has to change, but people are consiously deaf for this notion. Blaming the people that do see this cause and effect.
(Except you’ve already proved their point in other comments, and even jumped to conclusions because you need to feel better than everyone)
You’re not too bad about jumping to conclusions yourself. Perhaps it’s time to postpone judgement until you really get to know someone, instead of forming an opinion about someone based on a post or two.
You could step up for animals while still being a nice person - it was your decision not to.
It was my intention to provide some information on the subject, is that it doesn’t match your perception how you justify your dietary habits that makes it not nice to hear about it? Similar to a smoker who doesn’t want to hear how bad it is to smoke, not only for themselves but also for their environment, including health care later in life? Anyway, we’re in the middle of a worldwide climate crisis that can easily wipe out humankind, hurting innocent animals in the process, and you’re only interested if someone is being nice or not? You’re clearly missing the point here.
Have you stopped to think that plants also suffer stress when being picked?
It’s kinda one-faceted to just ignore that suffering while focusing on other suffering don’t you think?
True ethical consumption doesn’t exist the way you have it defined.
Yes. And they don’t
you can’t prove this
And you can’t prove it either. provide some evidence for your claim (that isn’t some unrelated study misinterpreted by silly news anchors)
while you can’t prove a negative, it is possible to find evidence for a positive claim. so, very much, you don’t know that. the truest thing anyone can say is that there is not a conclusive study that supports the claim.
Even if plants might feel pain, we are certain that animals feel pain. Also if you think for whatever reason that plants feel pain, then, well, a vegan diet uses less plants because its a more efficient food source. Plants feeling pain, whether true or false, isn’t an argument against veganism in any way.
the crux of the argument that they might feel pain is not that it is wrong, but that it is inevitable, so it cannot be wrong
I had a stroke while reading this. Can you clarify what you meant?
They don’t, but they also kinda do … They communicate with each other and with animals, they have different chemical reactions to different stimuli, etc. just because they’re different from you doesn’t mean they don’t suffer. Probably less than factory animals, that’s for sure, ofc. But not everyone that eats meat supports that shit.
The plants communicate for survival because of natural selection, not because they are avoiding pain