I was looking forward to trying Sync today now that it’s live, but my enthusiasm was immediately dampened after seeing the “Data Safety” section on the Google Play store.
Liftoff has been great, and want to say thanks for making an awesome app. This will continue to be my daily driver.
Edit: for clarity, because the post got way bigger than I expected.
Sync looks like a fantastic app, and the dev/s should charge whatever they feel is fair for their efforts, even if that’s through the usual ads + ad tracking.
My intent was just to post here in /c/Liftoff to thank the Liftoff devs for managing to somehow offer an awesome app without any of that.
Bro, of course it has a data safety section, it offers a paid version so it will need to be able to collect your financial information, and any trackers are removed if you remove ads or turn off personalized ads. That doesn’t mean it’s stealing your data, those are regular app functions for apps that have iaps or show ads.
I dont get you people. Making those apps is maybe a hobby for some but a job for others. People asked for Synch for Lemmy and the dev WORKED on it and will continue WORKING on it.
Love to see how many of you guys will work for free. And you probably all work for places that NEVER collect any data.
Could I use a free app for Lemmy? Sure, but I want Synch, because I know what Synch has to offer is what I want. I don’t need to settle for an “almost” solution. I can use Synch and I gladly paid for it.
Not to mention that Sync for Reddit had the same exact data advisory tag. The developer has been very open that he doesn’t store or sell the data, it is just needed for the free version to work properly.
I think the issue is not with wether the dev collects data, its about the dev using google products, which do collect, store and sell data.
There are alternatives to Firebase, (i think they can even be self hosted), so its something that can be improved without affecting much the development time or other aspects.
The Dev has shown countless times that he listens to his community and is willing to make changes. I mean for fucks sake he spent untold hours completely building a new UI and still made sure the old styling was available for users who prefer the classic look.
If enough people raise a stink about Google services I’m sure he will look at alternatives.
I mean, you can’t even install the pro version (without ads) unless you’re deep in the ass of the Google ecosystem. Someone checked and the pro version doesn’t send any tracking requests (which checks with what the developer said - the ad library is not even initialized in the pro version) so it’s not that bad for me.
But the part where I have to have Play Services is a huge no-no for me. So with Sync I can choose a) have spying ads or b) have different spying ads.
Of course it has the same data advisory tag, they both have/had a paid version of the app. It needs to collect financial information for that. That’s data that you have to offer voluntarily for christ sake, and then it checks whether your account is subscribed or not since lemmy itself wouldn’t indicate that. Even if it didn’t show ads, it would still have a data advisory tag. I can understand people who are extremely privacy obsessed online avoiding any app that collects data, even benign or optional data, just in case, but some people are treating it like sync is spyware just because it has a data advisory tag, which is ridiculous.
Check the community
I think OP doesn’t mind paying for an app, it’s the “collect data” that was his issue. If the free version collects data to send you ads, and there is an option to buy and remove the data collection and ads, then that’s probably fine with most people.
I don’t you should be forced to pay for it to stop collecting data assuming it does. Just give them non personalized ones instead. Unless that’s also what you meant then nvm.
That’s the way it is being reported. Buy to remove ads and the tracking goes away.
Yeah, I’ve been really disappointed in Lemmy’s response to sync. I thought this community was supposed to be technically minded but in every thread on Sync, the top comment is repeating disinformation about tracking and there’s tons of people tearing down the developer.
I get not wanting to use an App that has ads, but people are getting downright toxic over an App that no one is forcing them to use lol.
Where are the disinformation? Show me how I can have the ad-free version on my phone that doesn’t have Play Services and I’ll be very happy.
There are lots of comments and posts giving the false impression that Sync is tracking you outside of what is needed to support ads, including posts showing trackers from websites that are linked through lemmy and not part of sync at all (you would get those same trackers just browsing vanilla lemmy and clicking through a link)
You can do your own tracker analysis on the App. When you pay to disable ads all tracking goes away, which lines up with the developers claims that he doesn’t even load those libraries through the ad SDK when you aren’t on the ad supported version.
And yeah, this is distributed through the play store, if that’s an issue for you, you don’t need to download it, but like… that’s not the misinformation I’m talking about.
There are lots of comments and posts giving the false impression that Sync is tracking you outside of what is needed to support ads
Never noticed that, I think that the tracking because of ads is what people dislike.
When you pay to disable ads all tracking goes away
I’d actually love to! While I like open source more, I’m not opposed to the occasional non-open-source app if it’s good and not shady. But I’d have to have Play Services on my phone, which I don’t. I used to use Sync Pro back in the Reddit days but then I switched to a different OS to have more privacy and I had to change to Relay Pro because Sync Pro doesn’t work without Play Services.
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That’s not true. You can run analysis on the App’s activity. All the tracking calls go away when you upgrade. No need to trust the Dev.
Everyone just wants a chance to test out their freshly released app of choice’s commenting and bickering capabilities. Let’s be honest.
It’s extremely ridiculous. I just subscribed to Sync Ultra for $17/year. I have other apps that I subscribe to for a similar annual rate. I don’t mind paying to support a good app and its continued development. Pretty sure I can forego a few lattés a year and I’ll be OK while the devs get to eat and keep doing what they do.
The fediverse has a very high percentage of users who are FOSS zealots. These people would rather drink rancid gnu piss from Richard Stallman’s sweaty jock strap than deal with commercialized software. After you’ve been around them long enough (1996 in my case) you learn to tune them out.
Another thing to consider is that in the past apps could be sold separately with an ad version and an ad free version. So people could flat out avoid having an app that had any ad elements.
So there now only being an ad version, and then the initial first impression people saw was a subscription model to remove ads rubbed people the wrong way.
Either way, people can use the app or not, but it’s been odd how some people have been so emotional over people choosing to not use Sync. Like one of the top comments in this thread is just someone insulting foss and people not paying for Sync.
All I’ve learned from today’s drama is some of you people really love apps. People getting enraged over which apps people are using…
Lemmy really seems to attract even more terminally online people
lil reminder that this was posted to the liftoff community. the sheer volume of comments echoing the same “fuck you for complaining, you’re wrong” sentiment would really make you wonder. it’s not like you wandered, drunk, into their community and started shit talking sync.
coincidentally that does seem to be what most of the sync-stans in here have done, though.
The race to make a Lemmy app has made some solid contenders step up. There are a lot of legitimately good apps.
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Because I want to support the developer? Sync has had a ton of work put into it over the last few years, it’s a non trivial task for a developer to commit that much time to a free app. I also hate patreon, so $17 a year is a steal. It’s also literally like a chipotle burrito every 12 months. I think I can fit that into the budget.
dev’s gotta eat
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Definitely. It’s like we’re the prettiest girl at the dance!
I’m really happy you love Liftoff and it’s great that we have so many options.
See how easy that is?
It’s seriously a great app, so I don’t get the fuss about Sync either. I’ve been a Sync and Boost user before but I’m very content with the apps we already got for Lemmy so I won’t throw in another one to choose from.
I’ve been switching between Liftoff, Voyager and Thunder because they all seem to good to just lose them right now lol
Sync looks super clean and is probably a fantastic app, but I’m just a little put off by the data privacy. It’s like a month or so in the fediverse has spoiled me, and I can’t go back to being a product.
The data privacy stuff is all related to the plumbing required to serve ads.
If you pay for the ad-free version none of that stuff gets loaded.
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His dad works at Sync for Lemmy
Because people have run analysis on the activity of the app already and the trackers don’t fire if you aren’t on the ad supported version.
All of the listed stuff is also required for serving ads through services like Google and pretty normal for ad-supported apps.
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Yes, thanks for pointing that aspect out. I get the motivation to collect data to serve ads but I wish to stay with privacy respecting options too and I hope the contributors to those clients see enough donations to make their efforts worthwhile as well.
To me, it’s that these apps are established and developed into a clean user experience, many with like a decade of fine tuning. These new apps are, to me, not as good for that reason alone.
Of course it’s all preference, but that’s my input on the subject.
I found boost a great app and I was one of the first people (if not the first, my post on his sub is the first instance of it) to tell Ruben to make a lemmy app. I like Ruben because every single time I’ve ever had an issue with Boost for reddit, he responded directly to me and either helped me solve a user error or he would literally patch the app and push an update that included my issue. He’s a great dev and I’m glad he’s decided to continue development else where, and I’m glad to support him in this. While I could easy patch ads out using lucky patcher, I will pay for premium of boost for lemmy as soon as it’s ready
Thanks for your input! To me the three I listed feel very similar to what I had with Boost/Sync, probably because they were inspired by them in their main aspects. Admittedly though for me it’s just some tweaks and I’m happily scrolling away whereas B/S offer a litany of settings to customize every aspect of your browsing and posting experience which is very attractive, especially for more heavy users.
Nice to hear about your positive interactions with the dev. That sounds awesome and certainly is a good argument for supporting him in particular but also other developers delivering quality software be it open source or not.
Sync has just updated to allow a one off payment to remove ads. Dawson is also adding a one off payment for lifetime Ultra as well.
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Luckily there are some decent free alternatives you can use once you’ve cleaned up that puke.
But lemmy doesn’t have ads?
It’s a monetization strategy for the work he’s put into the app. I see why people don’t like it but I never intended to see a single ad in Sync anyway
Ahhh that’s a no from me. I’d pay if I like it, but injecting ads into the feed and I’m out. Just trying liftoff now. Seems solid.
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I like liftoff a lot. There are a couple of features I’d like to see (such as an option to automatically hide child comments) however they’ve already added other features I’ve suggested.
Shouldn’t some of the ad revenue be going to the Lemmy servers? Seems kinda wack.
I’ve read elsewhere that this app is his full time job, and this is obviously my opinion, but FWIW sync has by far the best UX of any app I’ve ever used and I’ve been using it for about a decade.
Weird, I remember him having a job and sync being a side thing. Something the moderators mentioned after LJ pushed that big update on sync for reddit and some users attacked him to the point he took a break.
I think that may have been before he went full time on the app, I could definitely be wrong though
No but the free version of Sync does because weirdly the dev would like to be paid for his work 🤷🏼♂️
How much is it to remove all ads?
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20$
Aren’t they still tracking after that? Simply hiding ads doesn’t make you less of a commodity.
It’s been confirmed that if you pay to remove ads, the ad sdk doesn’t even get loaded
No. The data tracking is because of the Google services ads. An app developer gets no compensation for data tracking, only serving ads which causes the tracking.
An app developer gets no compensation for data tracking, only serving ads which causes the tracking.
That’s seriously splitting hairs. The tracking is part and parcel with the ads, the compensation is for the tracking too.
Isnt tracking done by Google service app and not sync itself? I am not an app developer but it doesn’t seem logical for someone to add tracking elements that they have no control over.
What I was responding to was about what happens when the ads are removed by subscribing. If the ads are removed, there is no more tracking.
Nice of “Dawson” to think to formally add that after people already signed up for subscriptions and others started calling him out on it. There was no reason Sync needed to release today if that option wasn’t prepared, and if it was seriously being considered, maybe he should of notified users in the app before they started spending money.
It’s still in beta. Beta doesn’t mean feature-complete.
Given the popularity of the app, waiting for perfection wasn’t going to make sense. With sync, I have near parity on features with Jerboa, a smoother experience and what’s lacking will be added.
Also, why put the dev’s name in quotes? It just makes things look hateful. Full name is ljdawson… but that’s the dev’s name.
I’m not entitled to another’s labor for free. Some may choose to give it, but I’m not entitled to it. And if I like something, I expect there’s a cost. If it makes me happy enough, I pay.
I think it’s a little uncharitable to Sync to characterise it like this. Yes, it collects personal data to show ads. However, you have the choice to refuse or pay a one time fee to get rid of it entirely. It’s the nonconsensual nature of data collection that robs users of their agency that makes it problematic.
Devs need to eat and donations are not always a realistic revenue scheme. With the one time fee, Sync has signalled it cares about its users and not just value extraction like Big Tech. I will probably pay that and be happy.
I like Liftoff, I also like Sync. I use both atm.
you have the choice to refuse
If you’re in the EU, of course.
pay a one time fee to get rid of it entirely
If you already have spyware called Play Services on your phone.
I just used a VPN to the EU and refused. Yeah it sucks that governments don’t care, but nothing I can do about it right now.
As for Play Services, most people will never run a degoogled phone. So, that’s that.
More like malware, revoke too much access from it and it insta-reboots your device
I totally get that, and the sync dev seems like a good guy who should charge whatever he feels is reasonable for his time. To an average end user like me though, it feels a bit like there are 5-6 booths offering bananas for free, but then someone set up a booth right next to them selling bananas for $20 a pop or requiring me to sit through a sales pitch.
I just wanted to show my appreciation for the guy at my favorite booth who is doing it for free when they really didn’t have to.
Man, that’s Ferrari. That’s how they operate. You can buy lots of cars, but you can’t just walk into a dealer and buy a Ferrari.
You can sit and be fucking mad at Ferrari, or just choose to say “that’s an expensive thing for a dumb privilege”, … and drive an Audi instead.
I think @Laticauda@lemmy.ca has already made a good point regarding your example.
I’m not judging you or anything, just that the appreciation could have been shown without comparing it to Sync. It can come off as a bit combative, when you didn’t mean it like that.
And look what you’ve done. You brought the crazies out. The extremists.
Okay, but in this scenario one guy offers it for free because he helps to grow bananas as a hobby with a bunch of other guys who also help, and he doesn’t need to sell the bananas to make a living, while the guy offering bananas for money grows bananas himself or just with his family for a living and so selling them is how he can afford to make more and also put food on the table. You can also have his bananas for free too, as long as you’re okay with the bananas having stickers with sponsored brand names on them. I can understand not wanting to pay for something when there are free versions available, and the prices can be a bit high for some people atm, assuming they don’t change in the coming days, but the guy selling bananas for money isn’t forcing you to buy his bananas instead of getting the free ones from other booths, he’s offering his bananas for people who are willing and able to pay for them or willing to tolerate ads on them to support him. Presumably you didn’t feel the need to thank liftoff before the stuff with sync happened, so it doesn’t come across like you’re just thankful to liftoff in general, more like you’re doing it because you’re unhappy with sync.
Sync VS FOSS thing isn’t over yet? Let everyone use what they like the most. Let everyone be the judge of their own data and how it is being used. For god’s sake, live and let live folks
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You like eating shit?
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My guy, normal people aren’t software enthusiasts
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Do you know yourself for a fact that no data is being taken by Sync itself?
And its a fact that Google and Firebase are taking your data. Even if Sync itself doesn’t collect any data, it uses Google products (as stated in their Privacy Policy which I’m 1000% you did read), and any and all google products will take your data.
That’s the point of using a FOSS client, if it collected data people would know, the code is public. And the data collection can be removed, since the code is public.
Even outside of data collection or privacy, which clearly you don’t care about, we should avoid giving Google more power. Look at manifest v3 or the web integrity API. That affects not only your privacy, but your security and ability to use the internet. And not only yours, but the whole world
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Well, you are just one of the (majority of) people who apparently don’t care about being tracked by google. Me personally, others in the comments and maybe OP don’t use anything google related, have custom ROMs without gapps and avoid Google like the plague. So it is a concern for us, using Sync would open the door to google tracking.
Others have pointed out that even if you pay for pro, Sync still requires Play Services.
You seem to happily Google products, so my point wouldn’t apply to you. I just thought that most people would be concerned about google and tracking and fingerprinting and all that stuff, since we are in Lemmy and the Liftoff sub.
Firebase is typically a dependency for key app features. If the app still works 100%, you’re probably not even blocking the traffic.
Using Google Drive/Photos is just another problem. Amazing to me people keep bringing that up like a “you’re a hypocrite” trump card.
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But you don’t actually know what code is running on a given lemmy server. Just because the source is open, doesn’t mean that any given server is using the reference implementation, admins could be running whatever they want on their backend.
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I, for one would rather actively work to de-normalize it!
There, is that written accurately enough for you?
I would rather not normalize software that looks and works like a high school project made by someone who doesn’t know what UI or UX are.
UI UX Can be fixed tho.
Christ, closed source is not the devil, and if you treat it like it is then it shows you don’t actually know how open or closed source works, or the pros and cons of both types of software.
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God forbid a developer wants to own the code they write and be able to pay their bills doing it.
A fork “can be used” to stab someone in the jugular but it doesn’t mean we need to get rid of all forks to ensure it never happens. People need to be smart with who they trust and who they give their money to. LJ isn’t putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy his app, but I’m gladly paying for it because I feel like he’s an upstanding guy and frankly he’s just better at building a good UI than anyone else on Lemmy (and yes, I’ve tried at least 5 different apps. Second best was Connect.)
We’re on the Liftoff community. And it’s his opinion.
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Fucking love Infinity. Amazing what the devs are doing in a short amount of time
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Isn’t that down to what one individually consider “good”?
I find notepad-style text editors better word processors than Microsoft’s online Office system. It’s not because notepads are technically better or more visually appealing. It’s because I value not being tracked more.
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Yup! That’s why nobody can like whichever client they prefer. Having different opinions is completely incomprehensible and utterly baffling. Why wouldn’t everyone love the same set of 6 apps?
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Yeah, the free apps have really raised the bar. I think there’s a lot of passion out there for the fediverse and non-corporate social media.
I haven’t tried Voyager yet, but it sounds like I should give it a shot!
Summit (#1 in my heart), also lemmotif is in early development but has promise.
Whoa summit is pretty nice. I’ve been using Connect but maybe not anymore.
ROFLCOPTER
claiming these are just as good as sync just tells what you expect the apps to do
but what I’ve seen and (a lot of the other posters) is that sync is a whole lot smoother than all these apps and is the most feature-rich client
if getting tracked is your main problem in using sync, just use nextdns or pihole to block connections to google servers or pay up (currently only using google, I wish there was some other way)
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thing is, with all you list (and sync) the key thing is there is CHOICE
Nobody is forcing anyone to use Sync. If you don’t like the model it uses, then use something else that better fits what you want. People in this thread are acting like its compulsory to use sync.
BUT. what sync will do is bring people over from reddit. Sync for Reddit was hugely popular and there are tens of thousands of people that used Sync for years that had not shown any interest in Lemmy. Sync will bring some of those to this community which can only be a benefit to everyone.
Don’t like it, don’t use it.
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And for me, font is just too smal and hard to setup in Sync. And slow.
Jerboa wins again.
You can edit that in settings, but I appreciate that a new app has a learning curve.
Tell me you haven’t gone through Sync’s settings without telling me you haven’t gone through Sync’s settings
I went through settings and found font size settings. It was too many clicks with not enough options, at least for my eyes+screen.
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Hard disagree. I find Sync the best user experience so far, including the best looking UI hands down
I prefer Infinity
(Sadly the Lemmy version is not stable yet)
It isn’t? I’m on it right now, works totally fine
Yeah, same here, seems to working very nicely.
I was in the same boat, but I find Connect pretty similar to Sync’s usability.
I’ve been using Voyager until today. It was a fine app, but anyone who thinks it holds a candle to Sync is off their rocker. Sync has more features, runs far more smoothly, and looks a hell of a lot better.
Exactly. I don’t think many of the people who are claiming Sync is no better than others have actually used and thoroughly explored Sync, even for Reddit.
The customization options are incredible. Beautiful UI. Backup options. Filters. Settings that are fine tuned, and separate per account. It feels like years of work and polish, compared to weeks or months for others. Others work fine (fan of Liftoff), getting better, but I’m blown away with Dawson and Sync. The “ad outrage” is disappointing and silly to me at this stage (literally day one).
Well the years of work is literally that. Sync for lemmy is based on sync for reddit base. Or so it seems
Yes, just trying to say the years can actually be felt, and it’s an almost unfair advantage, but fantastic for users. Also yes, it’s indeed a full replica with all the features of Sync for Reddit, incredible for day one. Boost will probably have similar advantages.
Same with Jerboa.
Infinity is coming? Is it similar to the reddit version? And where can I see updates for it?
Yep! Here’s the website where you can find it right now: https://codeberg.org/Bazsalanszky/Infinity-For-Lemmy
You can download it from the Releases section manually or install and keep it updated with Obtainium
Thank you
I tried adding it to Obtanium, but it says “could not find suitable release”
Hmm, that’s strange, I’m on version
0.13.22of Obtainium and my phone’s architecture isarm64v8a, what’s your setup?Enable the prereleases slider
This solved the issue, thanks!
It’s already out, but it still has lots of references to reddit. There’s even still a ui for giving out awards
Thanks
I used Sync for a long time on Reddit, but there didn’t seem to be any free clients (with no ads) there.
I like “no ads” a lot more than I like “a very slightly better UI”, and the free ones for Lemmy offer enough for what I need. I don’t know what a paid one could offer over that to convince me to buy it.
What does liftoff have that the others don’t?
A better question is, what does Liftoff lack that others don’t?
I miss being able to hide posts, for example.
In Sync settings under View Type, you can enable the option to hide a post from the main feed view. In fact, there’s a lot of additional features that can be enabled and customized, the options menu is enormous and it really can be customized to your personal preferences.
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For one, it handles account switching much more smoothly than most apps I’ve tried.
While viewing a post, commenting, searching, or posting, you can choose your originating instance from a drop-down. Most other apps have to reload your feed and/or relaunch.
It’s been really helpful for me whenever an instance is bogged down or acting funny, and I can just hop over without losing my place.
Oh man I didn’t even see that in the menu. That is handy.
Liftoff is great, it’s true. Sadly, it lacks the only feature I’m after : hide read posts on scroll. Saw requests for this not being answered, so I guess it’s not coming.
Great app I admit, but a hard pass for me because of this.
I’d love this to be added too.
I want it to scroll to the comment in the post. I’m always manually trying to find the context of a comment by scrolling and looking.
I mean when you get a notification about a response and it takes you to the comment. It just shows you the comment. And then you click on Show Context. And here I was hoping it would scroll to the location of the comment in the post.
Does Liftoff offer keyword filtering or blocking instances at the account level?
Yes, this is really handy every time world gets attacked. I still have my world account set as my main, but it’s super easy to just switch over.
Your bank collects your data, though.
“Oh, no! It’s collects data!” - say people who use search engines, smartphones, navigations, personal AI assistants and social networks created by big tech companies to trade in user data.
Why is it PEGI 18 rated in Google Play??!
There is a lot of porn on Lemmy.
And somebody might say the naughty fuck word
Because Peggy saw the nsfw instance.
Karen too.
I have tried a couple different apps but Liftoff is the best so far. Quite disappointed in the direction Sync is taking. Developpers obviously have a right to be paid for their work, but I despise the choice of targeted ads or subscription based software.
I’m using sync and they have an option to remove ads that isn’t a subscription. I’m not sure if that would prevent tracking but another commenter said it would. I’ll probably see if I can get a response from the dev and find out.
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So both ways for someone to be paid?
Would you agree to buying one version with no updates (except for bug fixes) ?
I would. Is it a perfect model? No. Is it better than ads or a monthly subscription? Absolutely!
Sync just added an option for that.
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Sync has a lifetime ad free option. That removes the Google tracking as well, since it’s tied to ads. Subscription it for extra features you probably dont need. Based on comments about reddit sync, it also doesn’t track usage statistics. But that is mostly a guess from my side.
The price is a steep 20 USD, but the app is new and the Dev is well known. You also know what you are getting if you have used Sync before.
You can make a one time payment to remove the ads forever
That’s welcome. It has to be added very recently though because it wasn’t possible when I checked.
