I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC, they would follow through with their promises and not just spout populous bullshit while doing nothing.
It’s great that they can pretend that’d be the case while standing literally no possible risk of being elected. It’s easy to stand by your morals when there is no risk at all of having to defend or enact them.
I would rather vote for what I want in government and not get it than to vote against something and get it anyway. Democrats voted against Trump and his policies in 2020 and got someone keeping his worst policies, and now want someone even further to the right than Biden was.
This is a completely infantile concept. You wanna throw a tantrum for something you want, regardless of how asinine or unlikely it is, and despite all facts pointing to its irrationality? smdh. 🖕🏽
Look at their comment history. Joined almost exactly a year ago, had maybe 5-ish comments. Then a month ago, Harris replaces Biden giving Democrats a solid chance at the presidency, and suddenly they now have around 200 comments, every single one of them being in /c/politics and promoting Jill Stein and conflating Kamala Harris with Republicans (e.g. calling her voters “BlueMAGA”).
I don’t care if it’s their intended goal or not; the actual effect of their rhetoric is “I want enough leftists to throw their vote away to a Russian plant so the US elects a fascist into office.”
Just to be clear how has voting for the same people expecting different results changed literally anything? We are having the exact same conversations about wages, housing, employment, healthcare education, etc. that they were having during the civil rights movements, that they were having during the Great depression. If we’re continuing to have the exact same conversations, things are not getting any better
Then they should join the DNC and reform it from the inside. Join the progressive movement. Shift the Dems back to the center-left.
All they’re doing as a separate party is siphon votes away from DNC, which gives an advantage to the RNC, which erodes their own efforts to push green policies.
Reforming from the inside is liberal fantasy. The party is operating as designed and they will not allow anyone to vote away their power.
The solution is to abandon the DNC and support an actual party representing the working class. 3rd party’s do not siphon away votes because we wouldn’t vote for your party if there were no 3rd option on the ballot. We are not democrats so we would not vote for a democrat
I voted 3rd party as a protest vote in a few elections up to 2012, but I recognized that it was exactly that. I also have lived through a term with Trump as president. Because of Trump, women in this country have lost their reproductive rights. That is just the most obvious example of how he has hurt this country. The fact you are still not recognizing that Trump regaining the presidency is an existential threat to democracy is exasperating, especially when the majority of Democrats are allies to a good portion of the Green Party’s so-called platform. Ultimately, you need to face facts: Stein is clearly a shill for Putin and a spoiler for the election.
The protest vote is a vote of capitulation for the duopoly. A 3rd party vote cast out of conviction is a vote for democracy. Yours is based on fear and irrationality.
Dems are only mouth pieces for progress, all talk, zero action. Rince and repeat every election cycle.
I am sure your moral high ground will comfort you when Trump opens concentration camps in our own country for the undocumented (among others), and we literally live in A Handmaiden’s Tale. When the “dictator on day one” throws away our constitution and strips our lives away, remember how stoic you are! It could be the last election your vote is even counted for the Green Party, so I hope you are proud of your convictions!
The Dems aren’t perfect, but they aren’t comprised by Russia like both The Green Party and the GOP. Yes, I’m scared. I saw what happened last time. Why the hell aren’t you?
Riiiiight. They’ll never overturn Roe, that’s got judicial standing. It’s downright hysterical to suggest such a thing could happen. It’s not like we could live in an America with a 3rd of American women under an abortion ban right, and a national ban looming? RIGHT? And it would be unthinkable to intentionally and irrevocably separate families right? Not for any procedural necessity, but just to brutally traumatize anyone who tries to make a crossing. That’d be a pretty fucked up inhuman policy RIGHT?
The dnc knew it did not have judicial standing, that’s why they had promised for decades to codify Roe into law. Democrats have this bizarre worldview that everything Republicans do is inhuman, but when their own party adopt those same policies they’re busy at brunch. Or even better yet, when it’s Democrats that build the systems that Republicans take advantage of you turn a blind eye and only point fingers at Republicans, the way that they screamed about kids in cages under Trump while ignoring who built the motherfucking cages and is still locking kids up in cages. while adopting more draconian immigration laws than Republicans have in decades.
In a first past the post democracy there is no 3rd party. There is only the thing that is slightly better. Who is better in everything you want? Trump or Harris? If you say something else. But Harris is Closer to what you want and you choose the 3rd option you are choosing to help Trump win in your state. You choosing 3rd party is one less vote Trump has to win. If you want the green parties policies Trump is the furthest away from it. The time to move the party was during the primary. Now we have to vote for the furthest left thing that has the strongest chance of winning OR we get the right wing thing. Potentially never getting a chance to vote again if you listen to Trump.
The most minuscule way protest votes are possible is if you live in an overwhelmingly Blue state and you know Harris will win sure vote 3rd party but in Georgia when 11,000 people decided the outcome we can’t risk a movement of voting 3rd party. Title 9 , abortion, climate change belief in government, federal agencies, EPA, postal service, FTC, SEC, redistricting to make fair election maps for the senate and congress, manufacturing, and so much more is on the chopping block for Trump and Republicans let alone more supreme court and federal judges
That sounds like a bunch of lesser evil bullshit, lesser evil doesnt exist. That’s bullshit liberals tell themselves to make them feel better for not having the proverbial balls to vote their conscience and do what’s right. It prolongs the suffering of marginalized because they prefer a slow agonizing death over a quick one. There is also the choice of no death. 50.yesrs of liberal ‘lesser evil’ has grown into an enormous one that they can’t control. This is the bed they made and want non Democrats to help them out of the mess they created. Good luck
With what power? If the Green party continues doing nothing, gaining no local seats, no congressional seats, then how are they protecting environmental policy?
Spoiler doesn’t exist, we would never vote for your politicians even if they were the only ones on the ballot. If it wasnt for Hillary and Co Trump would have never won. The person YOU supported gave us trump.
I don’t. They’re not a serious party, and due to how shitty our electoral process is, all they do at the end of the day is strip votes from the Democratic candidates.
I wish that wasn’t how our elections worked, but it is. Pretending that’s not the case is a self-defeating strategy.
They’re not stripping away votes that they are not entitled to, that’s not how things work. We wouldn’t vote for your shitty candidates if they were the only one on the ballot.
Nobody thinks you’re a bot, we think you’re a paid shill who only took up seriously posting on the exact date that Kamala became the presumptive candidate and exclusively parrot anti-Democratic Russian propaganda.
I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC
Idk if I “trust” them to do anything, per say. I’ve never seen a Green candidate assume office.
But the argument I see from Democrats is that you have to vote for the liberal guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry or you’ll get the conservative guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry, instead. My current crop of Dem-aligned city and state officials are hugely in the tank for the petroleum industry, they’ve done little more than greenwashing when it comes to waste management and sustainable development in their districts, and they are openly hostile to environmental groups in town.
If the Green Party becomes the refuge for people disillusioned with the O&G aligned local democrats, who is to blame for that? Insidious Machiavellian Jill Stein? Nefarious GOP ratfvckers? The shadowy hand of Vladimir Putin? Or the Democrats who consistently fail to deliver mass transit, waste recycling, and environmental regulation, even within their base strongholds?
Funny that you can readily cite this statistic but don’t actually link to what those offices are. Out of embarrassment, maybe? Or maybe because it would show that the Greens are an extremely fringe third-party in no position at all to run a candidate for POTUS except as a Russian-planted spoiler for the GOP?
They do have a handful of municipal offices scattered nationwide. Do they have any state legislative offices?
I’m not entirely clear on the policy consequences of these wins, though. Are they just rebranded Dems, or do they have a real Sanders/Ventura-esque impact on how these governments operate?
I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC, they would follow through with their promises and not just spout populous bullshit while doing nothing.
It’s great that they can pretend that’d be the case while standing literally no possible risk of being elected. It’s easy to stand by your morals when there is no risk at all of having to defend or enact them.
And that sweet sweet Putin money.
I would rather vote for what I want in government and not get it than to vote against something and get it anyway. Democrats voted against Trump and his policies in 2020 and got someone keeping his worst policies, and now want someone even further to the right than Biden was.
This is a completely infantile concept. You wanna throw a tantrum for something you want, regardless of how asinine or unlikely it is, and despite all facts pointing to its irrationality? smdh. 🖕🏽
Look at their comment history. Joined almost exactly a year ago, had maybe 5-ish comments. Then a month ago, Harris replaces Biden giving Democrats a solid chance at the presidency, and suddenly they now have around 200 comments, every single one of them being in /c/politics and promoting Jill Stein and conflating Kamala Harris with Republicans (e.g. calling her voters “BlueMAGA”).
I don’t care if it’s their intended goal or not; the actual effect of their rhetoric is “I want enough leftists to throw their vote away to a Russian plant so the US elects a fascist into office.”
Voting for the same people and policies and expecting a different result is the infantile concept
So voting for a random third party and changing absolutely nothing is an infantile concept?
That’s the exact argument against voting for Green party candidates.
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And, just to be clear, how has voting Green ever changed literally anything?
Just to be clear how has voting for the same people expecting different results changed literally anything? We are having the exact same conversations about wages, housing, employment, healthcare education, etc. that they were having during the civil rights movements, that they were having during the Great depression. If we’re continuing to have the exact same conversations, things are not getting any better
Then they should join the DNC and reform it from the inside. Join the progressive movement. Shift the Dems back to the center-left. All they’re doing as a separate party is siphon votes away from DNC, which gives an advantage to the RNC, which erodes their own efforts to push green policies.
Reforming from the inside is liberal fantasy. The party is operating as designed and they will not allow anyone to vote away their power.
The solution is to abandon the DNC and support an actual party representing the working class. 3rd party’s do not siphon away votes because we wouldn’t vote for your party if there were no 3rd option on the ballot. We are not democrats so we would not vote for a democrat
I voted 3rd party as a protest vote in a few elections up to 2012, but I recognized that it was exactly that. I also have lived through a term with Trump as president. Because of Trump, women in this country have lost their reproductive rights. That is just the most obvious example of how he has hurt this country. The fact you are still not recognizing that Trump regaining the presidency is an existential threat to democracy is exasperating, especially when the majority of Democrats are allies to a good portion of the Green Party’s so-called platform. Ultimately, you need to face facts: Stein is clearly a shill for Putin and a spoiler for the election.
The protest vote is a vote of capitulation for the duopoly. A 3rd party vote cast out of conviction is a vote for democracy. Yours is based on fear and irrationality.
Dems are only mouth pieces for progress, all talk, zero action. Rince and repeat every election cycle.
I am sure your moral high ground will comfort you when Trump opens concentration camps in our own country for the undocumented (among others), and we literally live in A Handmaiden’s Tale. When the “dictator on day one” throws away our constitution and strips our lives away, remember how stoic you are! It could be the last election your vote is even counted for the Green Party, so I hope you are proud of your convictions!
The Dems aren’t perfect, but they aren’t comprised by Russia like both The Green Party and the GOP. Yes, I’m scared. I saw what happened last time. Why the hell aren’t you?
He won’t care because he’s not in our country.
Like a rabbit in the open terrified of the wind. Everything you claimed is hyperbole
Riiiiight. They’ll never overturn Roe, that’s got judicial standing. It’s downright hysterical to suggest such a thing could happen. It’s not like we could live in an America with a 3rd of American women under an abortion ban right, and a national ban looming? RIGHT? And it would be unthinkable to intentionally and irrevocably separate families right? Not for any procedural necessity, but just to brutally traumatize anyone who tries to make a crossing. That’d be a pretty fucked up inhuman policy RIGHT?
The dnc knew it did not have judicial standing, that’s why they had promised for decades to codify Roe into law. Democrats have this bizarre worldview that everything Republicans do is inhuman, but when their own party adopt those same policies they’re busy at brunch. Or even better yet, when it’s Democrats that build the systems that Republicans take advantage of you turn a blind eye and only point fingers at Republicans, the way that they screamed about kids in cages under Trump while ignoring who built the motherfucking cages and is still locking kids up in cages. while adopting more draconian immigration laws than Republicans have in decades.
In a first past the post democracy there is no 3rd party. There is only the thing that is slightly better. Who is better in everything you want? Trump or Harris? If you say something else. But Harris is Closer to what you want and you choose the 3rd option you are choosing to help Trump win in your state. You choosing 3rd party is one less vote Trump has to win. If you want the green parties policies Trump is the furthest away from it. The time to move the party was during the primary. Now we have to vote for the furthest left thing that has the strongest chance of winning OR we get the right wing thing. Potentially never getting a chance to vote again if you listen to Trump.
The most minuscule way protest votes are possible is if you live in an overwhelmingly Blue state and you know Harris will win sure vote 3rd party but in Georgia when 11,000 people decided the outcome we can’t risk a movement of voting 3rd party. Title 9 , abortion, climate change belief in government, federal agencies, EPA, postal service, FTC, SEC, redistricting to make fair election maps for the senate and congress, manufacturing, and so much more is on the chopping block for Trump and Republicans let alone more supreme court and federal judges
That sounds like a bunch of lesser evil bullshit, lesser evil doesnt exist. That’s bullshit liberals tell themselves to make them feel better for not having the proverbial balls to vote their conscience and do what’s right. It prolongs the suffering of marginalized because they prefer a slow agonizing death over a quick one. There is also the choice of no death. 50.yesrs of liberal ‘lesser evil’ has grown into an enormous one that they can’t control. This is the bed they made and want non Democrats to help them out of the mess they created. Good luck
With what power? If the Green party continues doing nothing, gaining no local seats, no congressional seats, then how are they protecting environmental policy?
They’re helping Trump win like they helped him win in 2016 by acting as a spoiler party, and everyone knows that Trump is a champion of the environment.
Spoiler doesn’t exist, we would never vote for your politicians even if they were the only ones on the ballot. If it wasnt for Hillary and Co Trump would have never won. The person YOU supported gave us trump.
What actions have the Greens taken to inspire your confidence?
I don’t. They’re not a serious party, and due to how shitty our electoral process is, all they do at the end of the day is strip votes from the Democratic candidates.
I wish that wasn’t how our elections worked, but it is. Pretending that’s not the case is a self-defeating strategy.
They’re not stripping away votes that they are not entitled to, that’s not how things work. We wouldn’t vote for your shitty candidates if they were the only one on the ballot.
Tell me you don’t understand the tactical implications of FPTP without telling me you don’t understand the tactical implications of FPTP
This isn’t about “my shitty candidates”. Stop being obtuse. You are intentionally confusing the issue and misleading people.
There is no confusion, if liberals were so concerned about my vote and getting FPTP then they should abandon their party and support 3rd options.
Yes, they are shitty candidates. When their only policy is ‘joy’ and people are falling for it, they are shitty
Good luck convincing 70+ million people to vote for your shitty Russian stooge.
Nice talking point, but it’s a little out of date at this point. You should ask for the updated list.
Nobody is entitled to any votes.
We wouldn’t vote for either of your shitty Putin compromised candidates even if they were they were the only ones on the ballot.
Enjoy another loss
A loss for us is a loss for everyone, including you. Unless you don’t live here, which would explain a hell of a lot
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For now.
Removed, see the new civility guidelines.
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is a Bot
Sounds like bot accusation to me.
Nobody thinks you’re a bot, we think you’re a paid shill who only took up seriously posting on the exact date that Kamala became the presumptive candidate and exclusively parrot anti-Democratic Russian propaganda.
Sounds like you’re trolling in a blatant attempt to get people banned.
Idk if I “trust” them to do anything, per say. I’ve never seen a Green candidate assume office.
But the argument I see from Democrats is that you have to vote for the liberal guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry or you’ll get the conservative guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry, instead. My current crop of Dem-aligned city and state officials are hugely in the tank for the petroleum industry, they’ve done little more than greenwashing when it comes to waste management and sustainable development in their districts, and they are openly hostile to environmental groups in town.
If the Green Party becomes the refuge for people disillusioned with the O&G aligned local democrats, who is to blame for that? Insidious Machiavellian Jill Stein? Nefarious GOP ratfvckers? The shadowy hand of Vladimir Putin? Or the Democrats who consistently fail to deliver mass transit, waste recycling, and environmental regulation, even within their base strongholds?
The greens hold over 140 offices across 20 states.
Funny that you can readily cite this statistic but don’t actually link to what those offices are. Out of embarrassment, maybe? Or maybe because it would show that the Greens are an extremely fringe third-party in no position at all to run a candidate for POTUS except as a Russian-planted spoiler for the GOP?
They do have a handful of municipal offices scattered nationwide. Do they have any state legislative offices?
I’m not entirely clear on the policy consequences of these wins, though. Are they just rebranded Dems, or do they have a real Sanders/Ventura-esque impact on how these governments operate?
In a country of 300 million people. You calling this some kind of achievement?