Edit: lotta downvotes from men claiming to be leftists but bury their head in the sand when it’s ever mentioned that violence, especially murder against women, is mostly committed by men. If your solidarity abruptly halts at issues like this and you call yourself a leftists, you’re only kidding yourself and other sexist men.
Thanks for confirming beyond a doubt that Lemmy is just another “leftist” spaced filled with sexist men. Gross and so disappointing.
Most of the replies you’ve received are trying to explain that saying “men” are what is wrong with “people” is a generalisation that is unhelpful and harms all men.
It’s true that the perp is a man, and it’s also true that most violence against women is perpetrated by men. However, that doesn’t mean there’s a causal link between being a man and assaulting women.
It’s much more likely that the addressable causes underlying this “man’s” actions are poverty, lack of mental health support, and cultural norms including but not limited to religion.
When you suggest that “men” are the cause of what happened to this athlete, it’s not surprising that men will be offended. To thereafter frame the obvious response as sexist is projection, frankly.
The article mentions a land dispute. Kenya has a murder for land problem.
It takes many forms, including witch hunting - the spread of witch hunting in sub Saharan Africa mostly an excuse for land grabs against the weak. Old man, single women, get targeted by gangs under the guise of witch hunting. It is also fueled by Christian churches vying for power against traditional religion in the region.
Sorry, went off track a bit. But even though it was her ex who did it, it is very likely a land dispute rather than misogyny behind the horrid crime.
I’m sorry I just don’t feel very unsafe around women. Why should I? The cast majority of violence is committed by men against other men.
I’m a man, and I’m wary of other men, who often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage
At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women
At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes
In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
I’m a man and I agree with women. Men often react violently when angry, and women simply do not. Whether thats a power thing, and if women were bigger it would flip, but the point is, if you are generally worried about your safety, then you don’t need to worry about women very much at all, and you need to worry about men very much so.
Remember these are generalizations, anyone is capable of anything and women have killed men before and women have committed violence before.
Everything you’ve listed is an absurd over statement.
often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
This is simply not the reality I live in. I’ve never known someone to attack someone over a woman, nor their fragile state of mind?
Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
I’ve certainly never experienced any of this and while mass shootings and robberies do occur they’re so rare that being a victim of such a crime is not a tangible risk.
Honestly you’re more likely tripping over your shoelace and dying than any of these things actually happening.
This is so fucking ignorant, it’s like you’ve never actually spoken to a woman before in your life (and no, the nice lady that delivers your chicken tenders doesn’t count).
When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection. Women (rationally) fear for their personal safety. All of the time. You and I cannot even grasp what that must do to a person mentally.
If you even suggest that this isn’t the case, go fuck yourself. I have nothing more to say to you. Some idiotic bullshit doesn’t need more of a platform on the internet than it already has, destroying the minds of young men.
When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection.
Do you live in a cartoon? Seriously, this is complete nonsense. I worry about my personal safety very often, when an environment presents certain risks (e.g., getting robbed, mugged etc.).
It’s true that I don’t generally fear to be sexually assaulted by a woman, but to say that men don’t (need to) worry about their personal safety is completely absurd.
When the dynamic you’re alluding to is done right you have the (typically, not always) woman wanting to be chased as much as the man is chasing. It’s the rider saying “oooh, rollercoaster, you’re so intimidating and scary, toss me around” while the rollercoaster is saying “ooooh, you like to be intimidated do you I’ll hold you fast and secure”.
It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.
What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?
This is some “all black people know each other” kind of stupid.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you’re not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care? If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
The reality, though, is if that were ever the case, men would immediately put a stop to it, and it would be no time before women were relegated to baby-making machines with no agency like freaks like Vance want.
If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care?
I’d be calling bullshit still. Sensationalized “stats” for the sake of views on “news”/blogs/podcasts is nothing new and I will not subscribe to it. I’m not sure which fallacies are in play here but I suspect it’s several.
If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
You really don’t.
This is a thread about Rebecca Cheptegei and you bring Vance into this… something 100% unrelated and is frankly, disrespected to the deceased. The problem is, you spend way to much time on the internet/news cycle and now you have a screwed up view of reality. You need to largely disconnect from the internet for a significant period of time
I’m going to bed but there’s countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.
Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I’m not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I’m saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don’t hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either “jokingly” or dead serious, or that we don’t see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don’t think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!
Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we’ve got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it’s not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism… Nope.
Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
A personal anecdotes is that I’m no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn’t attend his funeral.
My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like “them n-words down the road are fucking up this town”) and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he’s fucking dead. Now I don’t have a family of origin because I wouldn’t pretend he was a good person.
Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It’s hard. You get told to “mind your business” or "it’s just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole “but they’re family” thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that’s what it comes down to, and they’ll make it feel like you’re the one who’s in the wrong the whole time.
Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don’t call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There’s a reason why you’re deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you’d rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".
It’s so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I’m just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there’s so little diversity. ✌🏾
WTF is wrong with people.
men*
Edit: lotta downvotes from men claiming to be leftists but bury their head in the sand when it’s ever mentioned that violence, especially murder against women, is mostly committed by men. If your solidarity abruptly halts at issues like this and you call yourself a leftists, you’re only kidding yourself and other sexist men.
Thanks for confirming beyond a doubt that Lemmy is just another “leftist” spaced filled with sexist men. Gross and so disappointing.
Most of the replies you’ve received are trying to explain that saying “men” are what is wrong with “people” is a generalisation that is unhelpful and harms all men.
It’s true that the perp is a man, and it’s also true that most violence against women is perpetrated by men. However, that doesn’t mean there’s a causal link between being a man and assaulting women.
It’s much more likely that the addressable causes underlying this “man’s” actions are poverty, lack of mental health support, and cultural norms including but not limited to religion.
When you suggest that “men” are the cause of what happened to this athlete, it’s not surprising that men will be offended. To thereafter frame the obvious response as sexist is projection, frankly.
Nicely put.
The article mentions a land dispute. Kenya has a murder for land problem.
It takes many forms, including witch hunting - the spread of witch hunting in sub Saharan Africa mostly an excuse for land grabs against the weak. Old man, single women, get targeted by gangs under the guise of witch hunting. It is also fueled by Christian churches vying for power against traditional religion in the region.
Sorry, went off track a bit. But even though it was her ex who did it, it is very likely a land dispute rather than misogyny behind the horrid crime.
Men literally prey after women. When its done right its called, what, lust? Love?
A lot of men are drawn to women as their natural state.
Its not a crazy thing to say that women should be cautious around men in general is it?
Disingenuous at best.
People need to be cautious around people.
The vast majority of men do not “prey” on anything, including women.
I’m sorry I just don’t feel very unsafe around women. Why should I? The cast majority of violence is committed by men against other men.
I’m a man, and I’m wary of other men, who often attack men over women, or their ego, or their fragile state of mind has been disrupted momentarily or whatever other trivial reason men feel justified attacking people.
Driving in my car = men are more likely to participate in road rage At work = men are more likely to commit violence at work than women At home = men are most likely to break and enter occupied homes In public = men are most likely to be the perpetrator of a public mass shooting public shooting.
I’m a man and I agree with women. Men often react violently when angry, and women simply do not. Whether thats a power thing, and if women were bigger it would flip, but the point is, if you are generally worried about your safety, then you don’t need to worry about women very much at all, and you need to worry about men very much so.
Remember these are generalizations, anyone is capable of anything and women have killed men before and women have committed violence before.
Everything you’ve listed is an absurd over statement.
This is simply not the reality I live in. I’ve never known someone to attack someone over a woman, nor their fragile state of mind?
I’ve certainly never experienced any of this and while mass shootings and robberies do occur they’re so rare that being a victim of such a crime is not a tangible risk.
Honestly you’re more likely tripping over your shoelace and dying than any of these things actually happening.
Ladders. Ladders are the #1 killer. And stupid shit on top of that, like taking something down from a high shelf.
This is so fucking ignorant, it’s like you’ve never actually spoken to a woman before in your life (and no, the nice lady that delivers your chicken tenders doesn’t count).
When men leave the house, the worst thing we walk around in fear of is ridicule and rejection. Women (rationally) fear for their personal safety. All of the time. You and I cannot even grasp what that must do to a person mentally.
If you even suggest that this isn’t the case, go fuck yourself. I have nothing more to say to you. Some idiotic bullshit doesn’t need more of a platform on the internet than it already has, destroying the minds of young men.
Sure mate.
It’s patently absurd to suggest that all women fear for their personal safety “all of the time” when they leave the house.
Sure, there’s a very few places in the world where that may be true, but it certainly is not generally true.
I think your comment says more about you than it does about me.
Do you live in a cartoon? Seriously, this is complete nonsense. I worry about my personal safety very often, when an environment presents certain risks (e.g., getting robbed, mugged etc.). It’s true that I don’t generally fear to be sexually assaulted by a woman, but to say that men don’t (need to) worry about their personal safety is completely absurd.
You sound like you need to see a doctor then.
Because robberies and mugging do not exist, because I should not worry about them or because they don’t happen to me as a man?
Big femcel vibes. Yikes
When the dynamic you’re alluding to is done right you have the (typically, not always) woman wanting to be chased as much as the man is chasing. It’s the rider saying “oooh, rollercoaster, you’re so intimidating and scary, toss me around” while the rollercoaster is saying “ooooh, you like to be intimidated do you I’ll hold you fast and secure”.
Yeah, it’s because he was a man and not a horrible human. Gotcha.
Why respond in bad faith like this? You’re clearly playing dumb.
Pot, kettle…
Would you please provide data supporting this stance?
Already did in another comment in this thread, take a look. Cited with the link to the paper.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/ <— by all means, look up similar studies done in more recent years and you’ll find the same fundamental patterns.
It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.
What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?
This is some “all black people know each other” kind of stupid.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you’re not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
Are we talking about what’s possible or what is likely?
Here I’ll answer both:
Bonus: men are far more likely to be a victim of violence than a woman. Men also should be cautious around strange new men!
That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless. And two of your answers are sexist. Not that I think you give a shit.
How? How is a statistic like this meaningless?
If the statistic were reversed, you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t care? If 95% of murders were committed by women? You don’t need to answer, I already know.
The reality, though, is if that were ever the case, men would immediately put a stop to it, and it would be no time before women were relegated to baby-making machines with no agency like freaks like Vance want.
I’d be calling bullshit still. Sensationalized “stats” for the sake of views on “news”/blogs/podcasts is nothing new and I will not subscribe to it. I’m not sure which fallacies are in play here but I suspect it’s several.
You really don’t.
This is a thread about Rebecca Cheptegei and you bring Vance into this… something 100% unrelated and is frankly, disrespected to the deceased. The problem is, you spend way to much time on the internet/news cycle and now you have a screwed up view of reality. You need to largely disconnect from the internet for a significant period of time
Peace. Don’t associate with men. We will all be happier the fewer people you associate with.
No.
The vast majority of the time a woman is murdered, it’s at the hands of a man. Yes.
I’m going to bed but there’s countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.
Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I’m not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I’m saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don’t hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either “jokingly” or dead serious, or that we don’t see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don’t think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!
Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we’ve got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it’s not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism… Nope.
Dude, I 100% get what your saying.
Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
A personal anecdotes is that I’m no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn’t attend his funeral.
My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like “them n-words down the road are fucking up this town”) and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he’s fucking dead. Now I don’t have a family of origin because I wouldn’t pretend he was a good person.
Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It’s hard. You get told to “mind your business” or "it’s just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole “but they’re family” thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that’s what it comes down to, and they’ll make it feel like you’re the one who’s in the wrong the whole time.
Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don’t call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
SWING and a MISS
Oh boohoo did those mean men downvote you? Just another reason to mandate isolation of genders.
Oh stfu. And we could bring up a million other things that are committed mostly by women and you wouldn’t say a fucking thing.
This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There’s a reason why you’re deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you’d rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".
It’s so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I’m just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there’s so little diversity. ✌🏾
All you do is cry and complain into the void instead of empowering yourself and others.
I felt empowered.