I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point

Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down

  • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    150
    arrow-down
    29
    ·
    3 months ago

    If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.

    • fern@lemmy.autism.place
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      54
      arrow-down
      72
      ·
      3 months ago

      They were banned when reddit cracked down on any leftist thought, not because they were especially bad from what I saw.

      • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        71
        arrow-down
        18
        ·
        3 months ago

        They were banned around the same time as The Donald because everyone was tired of the shit both groups were doing.

        • fern@lemmy.autism.place
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          46
          ·
          3 months ago

          I do remember that, and I remember them half-assing the Donald by just letting them make a new sub (or overrun conspiracy irrc)

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            42
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            3 months ago

            Yeah they immediately took over Conspiracy and consolidated the hold on Conservative. Made me really sad as conspiracy used to have some incredible rabbit hole posts. Then one day it was just TD all over again.

            • grue@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              12
              ·
              3 months ago

              IIRC, the fun conspiracists moved to r/high_strangeness or something like that.

              • imaqtpie@lemmy.myserv.one
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                ·
                3 months ago

                That sub is trash also. I think the whole conspiracy theorist subculture has been taken over by the alt right and is highly politicized at this point.

                • cass80@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  The days of mild and fun conspiracy theories are over. The entire community has been fully consumed with qanon/maga/antisemitism insanity. Their minds are irrevocably broken.

                  It’s a shame. I grew up on xfiles and loved all the lore around the culture.

                • grue@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  I was afraid of that (which is why I phrased it less definitively than I could have). Good to know!

        • BakerBagel
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          29
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          3 months ago

          The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical “both sides” bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists

        • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.

          Sounds pretty cool to me.

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            3 months ago

            While true there was a lot more behind the decision than that final post. They had been fighting with the admins for a long time.

            • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              There actually isn’t any such logic presented for the decision. Mostly just allusions to celebrating violence, the only examples of which were the anti-slavery posts I referenced.

              • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                Maybe because you didn’t observe it happening. Reddit admins were busy as hell cleaning the place up. All kinds of rightwing subs like some of the incel gathering spots. Some for straight up Nazis like frenworld or whatever it was where they were using honk honk as code for heil Hitler. When the admins made site changes due to complaints about right wing subs, Chapo made the list because they engaged in similar activities with the main complaint being brigading other subs. Their mods refused to change to meet the new rules. The admins eventually removed some of the mods. They still refused to change afterward. Which eventually got them shut down.

            • TraitorToAmerica@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              evidence? I see people say this but from what I remember the mod team was repeatedly stonewalled by the admins, or at least that was their claims, and I don’t think the admins ever disputed that

              • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                Hardly, the mods kept refusing to do anything about the brigading of other subs. To the point the admins stepped in and removed a couple of them. Then afterward the sub decided they’d rather go private than comply. At this point most of back and forth is wiped out because the sub is locked. But there was far more going on for a while than their claim that one post shut them down immediately. They had already been in trouble for a couple months.

                https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/bp39gb/chapotraphouse_gets_a_call_from_the_admins/

                https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmfirtv1vndy21.png

                • TraitorToAmerica@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  3 months ago

                  I wasn’t clear enough, what I meant wasn’t that the admins literally never said anything to the mods, I meant they made it relatively unclear what exactly they needed to do to stop getting warnings and eventually getting banned. no conversation, just relatively vague commands from down high also, as you can see in the SRD thread it was never made clear if they were removed for anything besides the john brown posting. However, even this is more clear communication than I remembered so I’ll admit fault on that at least.

                  funny thing I found browsing the thread is this comment about why chapo got banned, which mentions brigading, something people constantly accused/accuse hexbear users of doing:

                  The second aspect of this is that chapo is becoming so large that it is capable of effectively “brigading” threads without any direct co-ordination on the subreddit. By this I’m referring to stuff like the police dog situation, in which any meaningfully upvoted thread on /r/aww and other “cute” subreddits gets a shitload of “40%”, “ACAB”, and other anti-cop rhetoric. While screenshots of this often get posted to /r/chapotraphouse, the vast majority of the time this is AFTER the thread has already been “brigaded” by chapo users scrolling through /r/all or the specific “cute” subreddits. This behavior is not against the TOS, but it is incredibly annoying to /r/aww mods and therefore concerning to the admins, because the “cute” subreddits are the easiest to manage and please, and more importantly, the most advertiser friendly. When chapo users fuck that up, there’s a problem.

                  sounds familiar doesn’t it?

          • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            3 months ago

            Largely because they moved to different subs.

            The Chapo crew didn’t want to calm down with all the threats of violence and other ridiculous antics. So they left completely.

                • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  23
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  When the sub was put on probation, the post Reddit cited was justifying violence against slave owners. As far as I can tell, you just made up that they threatened Reddit admins.

                  • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    17
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    There were other things that went down to get them on probation. I can tell you’re gladly defending them though. Which is ridiculous so have a nice day.

                • BakerBagel
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  14
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Huffman has been a frequent attendee at Burning Man, the annual, clothing-optional festival in the Nevada desert, where artists mingle with moguls. He fell in love with one of its core principles, “radical self-reliance,” which he takes to mean “happy to help others, but not wanting to require others.” (Among survivalists, or “preppers,” as some call themselves, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, stands for “Foolishly Expecting Meaningful Aid.”) Huffman has calculated that, in the event of a disaster, he would seek out some form of community: “Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.”

                  Spez pretty openly fantasizes about owwning slaves

        • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          No, The Donald was encouraging political violence and was becoming a legal liability for Reddit to continue hosting. But they needed to ban a major left wing subreddit at the same time to do a “both sides bad” thing and preempt the fascist talking points about social media having a liberal bias.

    • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      50
      arrow-down
      80
      ·
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.

      As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

      But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

      Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.

      edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.

      • GBU_28@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        63
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        3 months ago

        Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin

        • flashgnash@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          Honestly what is with the comrade/them shit they do about? I thought it was ironic like they were making fun of neopronouns or they were the 4chan people who popularised them in the first place

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          45
          ·
          3 months ago

          There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.

          It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            39
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            3 months ago

            If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he “loves the gays”

            • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              12
              arrow-down
              32
              ·
              3 months ago

              Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It’s his implementation of those idealistic principles that’s unethical.

              The rest of what you’ve said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they’re all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.

              • GBU_28@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                26
                arrow-down
                12
                ·
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                🥱

                Literally out here defending Stalin stans

                • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  12
                  arrow-down
                  27
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn’t fit the shallow narrative you chose.

                  • GBU_28@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    18
                    arrow-down
                    7
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    The “facts” are things we both agreed are posted there. That’s all I need. If they’re a stalin apologist / stan then the shows over.

      • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        37
        arrow-down
        23
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.

        Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.

        F them and f you for defending them.

        This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.

        https://lemm.ee/post/4543536

        Above screenshot is from said thread.

        The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!

          • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            Perhaps now is the time.

            No, Time for condoning class war and murder is never and nowhere.

            Go back to hexbear, you poor, uneducated, lying, bolshevik piece of shit.

            But thank you for showing anyone who may have not had an experience with you before what type of people you are.

            One can always count on that, you morons just can’t help yourself.

            • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              3 months ago

              You don’t get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.

                • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  3 months ago

                  The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It’s not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.

                  Would you say it’s constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism

          • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            Your portrayal of them just being made into regular peasants seems to me viewing the whole affair with more than rose colored glasses.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

            All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]
            Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals, or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts.

            By most people’s reckoning in most of planet earth they stole the lawfully earned property of kulaks and either murdered them or otherwise destroyed their lives. Treating them worse than most developed nations treat burglars and thieves.

            If someone shot your grandpa and your uncle, send half your people to Siberia to die out there, and sent the other half to prison locally of course you would flee with whatever you could carry and of course you would at that point be an enemy of the regime that destroyed your life.

            So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.

            I don’t understand your justification for what is ultimately pretty horrific treatment foisted on people ultimately just participating lawfully in society up until that point.

              • michaelmrose@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                America didn’t go from legally sanctioning a behavior to murdering the people today who were behaving lawfully yesterday even if they were immoral fucks. If you don’t understand that then you don’t understand how normal societies run.

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          19
          ·
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          Yes, please read what the .ee admin says about where the bigoted users originate and the actions of the hexbear mods in response. It certainly speaks for itself.

      • would_be_appreciated@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        3 months ago

        But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.

        I’ve never seen this - not just from that instance, but literally anywhere on the internet, even back in the forum or bb days. But I’ve been looking for something like that for years, and I’d be interested. Do you know of any specific examples of this happening?

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          3 months ago

          The best example I’ve experienced online is hexbear’s process to derive forum ruleset with respect to their minority of GLBTQ+. The consensus was that many understood and that those that did not would follow in faith, assuming that they would soon understand. The second best online example was the GME subreddits’ cultural response to initial scaling. The consensus was that each should individually choose and the collective’s purpose was to educate, this strengthening individual wisdom.

          But, my guidance would be to first pursue such things in real life. A leftist’s best work is almost always grassroots local.

        • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          3 months ago

          I also haven’t seen this but it seems to make fun of the authoritarian excesses in Mao’s China (struggle session).

          The Three Body Problem show features this, leading a character to go mad and wanting to destroy humanity.

          The funny thing is that this post is sort of a struggle session, an attempt to build consensus against socialists.

      • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        3 months ago

        Yeah they kept being able to back the most ridiculous claims and then suddenly I was like “oh no they were right all along” and got radicalized 🤷

            • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              19
              arrow-down
              15
              ·
              3 months ago

              That’s the whole point of an echo chamber yes. You can say whatever you want without being challenged by other viewpoints and make anything seem plausible.

              • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                18
                arrow-down
                17
                ·
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                but they are linking a lot of outside sources. That’s what I mean by “backing their claims up”, studies about covid, about the ukraine war, about Israel, it’s not just someone making a claim and then everyone is nodding along.

                What I am saying is they were able to completely upend the way I see the world and you just can’t do that by claiming thengs and linking to some other claims you make.

                • AmidFuror@fedia.io
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  arrow-down
                  9
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Wait until you hear about Scientology! Not the criticism from haters but the really mindbending stuff they have figured out.

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    15
                    arrow-down
                    10
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    I was on lemm.ee when I got radicalized, all my life Ive been exposed to people claiming all sorts of things. I was a pro-NATO pro-Ukraine anti-ussr anti-china average reddit lib that they were able to convince otherwise.

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          Hello, low effort neolib troll. Thanks for the opportunity to continue to speak truth.

          There’s a cultural similarity to what 4-chan was prior to the LOIC. But, they’re definitely not tankies. Sincere expressions of authoritarian means are soundly defeated and usually result in permabans. The principle and practice is consistent for MAGA, neolibs, and other authoritarians.

      • TraitorToAmerica@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        3 months ago

        i don’t think they really helped with the financing of lemmy, although their coders did/do make many valuable contributions to lemmy’s code base. out of curiosity, do you have an account on another instance? I’m surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

        • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          3 months ago

          I don’t think they really helped with the financing

          All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must’ve been free.

          I’m surprised to see a sympathetic comment like this from an account on an instance that has them defederated

          Identity politics from .ml?

          If you’re surprised at such small acts of individual praxis, you’d be amazed at what we’ve accomplished in groups.

          • TraitorToAmerica@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            All the computational resources the users tested the code base on must’ve been free.

            fair enough I just think of direct monetary donations or something when I see financing like that but looking at like that isn’t incorrect

            Identity politics from .ml?

            I mean kinda? I normally expect people who hold sympathies towards hexbear to use an account on like lemm.ee so they don’t have to use more than one account to browse everything they want to see

            • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              3 months ago

              when I see financing like that but looking at like that isn’t incorrect

              None of the devs got paid. There are no other expenses.

              I normally expect people who hold sympathies towards hexbear to use an account on like lemm.ee so they don’t have to use more than one account to browse everything they want to see

              You expect the convenient implementation of MLK’s white moderate. But, my content should give no indication of that stereotype.

              I’ll answer your previous question: I’ve personal accounts on world, ee, ml, and hexbear. The fediverse doesn’t limit viewing content from multiple accounts concurrently. One must only choose an account to post. The only obstacle to such a tool is a means to avoid burdening the fediverse with duplicate responses to content requests. We solved that problem in a few hours.

              If you want actual insight communicated properly then you should ask in the correct venue. For example, I’d have no issue explaining in nuance on hexbear because the majority has a strong understanding or conversion of theory to praxis. I’m not even needed. Others would adequately explain on my behalf.

              • TraitorToAmerica@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                I think my comments have been too ambiguous then, I didn’t mean for anything I’ve said to come across as hostile in any way, I apologize. I’m a lemmygrad user, made this account because I browse through .ml at work and been meaning to make one so i can comment while there.

                • SirDerpy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  I’ve perceived only good faith from your posts. I apologize if I’ve not demonstrated that in my responses. It’s difficult to do here.