I never understood why people bitch about reading in games. Like, you do know people read books for fun, right? JRPGs are some of the most beloved games ever and a good chunk of them are pretty much just reading a ton of dialogue and descriptions.
idk, i kind of can’t stand this format of visual novel.
i love books. i love story driven games. virtual novels like this somehow manage to capture the worst aspects of both. like, it’s a book that forces you to read it slowly, or at least at a somewhat fixed pace. i hate being locked to a computer to read, i hate having to either continuously click to advance to the next slids after every 2 sentences or less or have to read at a fixed pace, i honestly hate having low quality badly mixed sounds effects in my ear while I’m trying to read.
these aren’t low gameplay games. these are just extra tedious books. I’d so much rather just read a manga every time.
As a counter I find the fact that VNs sidestep having to describe all sorts of setting and character related things by just showing you them instead with beautiful art work and at times voice acting.
To me that actually increases the pace instead of slows it down, if you think about what you’re not having to read. I do also dislike reading VNs at a computer, though, so I’ll only get them on portable systems unless it’s REALLY good, like Slay the Princess, and that game would simply not be the same if it were a book, it’s extremely reliant on choice.
eh, I’d rather choose either art or voice. manga ot audio book. i tend to lean towards Audio books because it leaves my eyes and hands free to do other things.
for me it’s just a struggle. it requires me to give it all of my senses, like a movie, but it does so little to hold them. a single still image that changes once ever like 20 lines holds my interest for maybe 2 seconds if it’s a good one. then the dialogue goes on for 5 minutes. it’s almost always bottom of the barrel voice acting. I’ll admit, having been completely put off by the biggest mainstream ones having no choices and just being shitty books, so i haven’t tried any with choices, but the fact that the most popular ones don’t really have choices… you just can’t avoid a medium being defined by its biggest representatives. those are the ones that draw people in and hook them. clearly the choices aren’t the thing fans of the medium like.
again, i just can’t imagine having anything but an infinitely better time reading a manga. fate had me frustratedly dragging myself through it by the end. I’ve never actually managed to finish any others. if was so many hours of me begging it to be less slow. even with all the modern mods and fixes to make it as customizable of an experience as possible. it made me want to pull my hair out at times because of how tedious it was. like maybe if i ate 1000mg thc gummy i could melt into enough, but it’s just so painfully slow otherwise.
You are correct in some ways, such as dedicating all your senses while giving you less on average to engage them, but are also over generalizing by saying it’s always terrible voice acting, which just isn’t true, it can be anime hammy, but I happen to really love well done over the top anime voice acting, which is a whole different style compared to something extremely realistic like The Last of Us. And if you don’t like that style, that’s okay, but it’s not terrible.
I feel like biggest representatives could go to things like Danganronpa, Phoenix Wright, or Persona, which all feature choice and gameplay, and I’d say Danganronpa and Persona have good voice acting, with Persona’s as excellent. I feel like generalizing that fans of the genre don’t care about choice is just not correct for all fans, I personally dislike most of the choiceless VNs because they then rely extremely hard on story, for example I disliked House in Fata Morgana because that’s a “reading a linear book” style of VN with no voice acting, and it’s really long, and the soundtrack was not super amazing (compared to Phoenix Wright, Danganronpa, and Persona, which have OUT FUCKING STANDING soundtracks, and with a manga you’re not getting a soundtrack that emotionally engages you and brings you back to listen to them long after completing the games as I have with those series.
i would consider persona to be a different genre. it’s closer to Pokemon with a lot of dialogue. i guess I’m defining visual novels partly as things that don’t have much gameplay. if there is a significant other portion of gameplay with complex mechanics outside of dialogue that’s just a different thing in my book.
I… don’t love persona, but that more because i can’t get into the teenage highschool drama. the number of times i felt myself internally screaming “holy shit i don’t care, you won’t even remember this in 5 years” made me eventually realize I just wasn’t having a great time. liked the Pokemon fights though. I could see myself loving a different game that plays similar with a more mature story.
I enjoyed Class of 09, one of few VNs designed around English VA and auto-continuation, as well as having very tight comedic timing.
That last one is key that so many games utterly fail at - waiting until the line is completely finished from the VA’s laborious delivery and they’ve completely trailed off before reading the next one.
Gameplay really is about how much agency you have. Visual Novels are usually not games, as plenty of them have zero user agency. You’re just reading a comic book at that point, not playing a game.
I’ve been reading a ton of these things the last few weeks. I can’t bring myself to say “I’m playing these games” over “I’m reading these novels.” Because most of them have had literally no choices to make, or the choices you make have zero effect on anything and are just there as a joke.
It’s absolutely not subjective. A game is literally pursuit of a definite objective. All the color and flavor that isn’t a mechanic in itself is just extra.
“Videogames” is an incredibly varied art form, ranging from things that border on books or movies, to things that are more similar to sports, to abstract sandboxes that have no goal besides just messing around, to everything in between and a lot more I haven’t even touched on.
“gameplay” not “videogames” ya goalpost moving twat!
“Gameplay” is a distinctly difference facet from storytelling and is very objectively defined.
Get over your artsy fartsy bullshit and use your head. Tell me the plot to tic tac toe. You can’t, can you? You can however, define the objective, strategies, and means of interacting with the game state. That’s where game is and story isn’t.
I’m so sick of people missing the point for not even looking because they think they’re just here to win a prize.
“Gameplay” is subjective.
I never understood why people bitch about reading in games. Like, you do know people read books for fun, right? JRPGs are some of the most beloved games ever and a good chunk of them are pretty much just reading a ton of dialogue and descriptions.
idk, i kind of can’t stand this format of visual novel.
i love books. i love story driven games. virtual novels like this somehow manage to capture the worst aspects of both. like, it’s a book that forces you to read it slowly, or at least at a somewhat fixed pace. i hate being locked to a computer to read, i hate having to either continuously click to advance to the next slids after every 2 sentences or less or have to read at a fixed pace, i honestly hate having low quality badly mixed sounds effects in my ear while I’m trying to read.
these aren’t low gameplay games. these are just extra tedious books. I’d so much rather just read a manga every time.
As a counter I find the fact that VNs sidestep having to describe all sorts of setting and character related things by just showing you them instead with beautiful art work and at times voice acting.
To me that actually increases the pace instead of slows it down, if you think about what you’re not having to read. I do also dislike reading VNs at a computer, though, so I’ll only get them on portable systems unless it’s REALLY good, like Slay the Princess, and that game would simply not be the same if it were a book, it’s extremely reliant on choice.
eh, I’d rather choose either art or voice. manga ot audio book. i tend to lean towards Audio books because it leaves my eyes and hands free to do other things.
for me it’s just a struggle. it requires me to give it all of my senses, like a movie, but it does so little to hold them. a single still image that changes once ever like 20 lines holds my interest for maybe 2 seconds if it’s a good one. then the dialogue goes on for 5 minutes. it’s almost always bottom of the barrel voice acting. I’ll admit, having been completely put off by the biggest mainstream ones having no choices and just being shitty books, so i haven’t tried any with choices, but the fact that the most popular ones don’t really have choices… you just can’t avoid a medium being defined by its biggest representatives. those are the ones that draw people in and hook them. clearly the choices aren’t the thing fans of the medium like.
again, i just can’t imagine having anything but an infinitely better time reading a manga. fate had me frustratedly dragging myself through it by the end. I’ve never actually managed to finish any others. if was so many hours of me begging it to be less slow. even with all the modern mods and fixes to make it as customizable of an experience as possible. it made me want to pull my hair out at times because of how tedious it was. like maybe if i ate 1000mg thc gummy i could melt into enough, but it’s just so painfully slow otherwise.
You are correct in some ways, such as dedicating all your senses while giving you less on average to engage them, but are also over generalizing by saying it’s always terrible voice acting, which just isn’t true, it can be anime hammy, but I happen to really love well done over the top anime voice acting, which is a whole different style compared to something extremely realistic like The Last of Us. And if you don’t like that style, that’s okay, but it’s not terrible.
I feel like biggest representatives could go to things like Danganronpa, Phoenix Wright, or Persona, which all feature choice and gameplay, and I’d say Danganronpa and Persona have good voice acting, with Persona’s as excellent. I feel like generalizing that fans of the genre don’t care about choice is just not correct for all fans, I personally dislike most of the choiceless VNs because they then rely extremely hard on story, for example I disliked House in Fata Morgana because that’s a “reading a linear book” style of VN with no voice acting, and it’s really long, and the soundtrack was not super amazing (compared to Phoenix Wright, Danganronpa, and Persona, which have OUT FUCKING STANDING soundtracks, and with a manga you’re not getting a soundtrack that emotionally engages you and brings you back to listen to them long after completing the games as I have with those series.
i would consider persona to be a different genre. it’s closer to Pokemon with a lot of dialogue. i guess I’m defining visual novels partly as things that don’t have much gameplay. if there is a significant other portion of gameplay with complex mechanics outside of dialogue that’s just a different thing in my book.
I… don’t love persona, but that more because i can’t get into the teenage highschool drama. the number of times i felt myself internally screaming “holy shit i don’t care, you won’t even remember this in 5 years” made me eventually realize I just wasn’t having a great time. liked the Pokemon fights though. I could see myself loving a different game that plays similar with a more mature story.
I enjoyed Class of 09, one of few VNs designed around English VA and auto-continuation, as well as having very tight comedic timing.
That last one is key that so many games utterly fail at - waiting until the line is completely finished from the VA’s laborious delivery and they’ve completely trailed off before reading the next one.
Gameplay really is about how much agency you have. Visual Novels are usually not games, as plenty of them have zero user agency. You’re just reading a comic book at that point, not playing a game.
I’ve been reading a ton of these things the last few weeks. I can’t bring myself to say “I’m playing these games” over “I’m reading these novels.” Because most of them have had literally no choices to make, or the choices you make have zero effect on anything and are just there as a joke.
It’s absolutely not subjective. A game is literally pursuit of a definite objective. All the color and flavor that isn’t a mechanic in itself is just extra.
“Videogames” is an incredibly varied art form, ranging from things that border on books or movies, to things that are more similar to sports, to abstract sandboxes that have no goal besides just messing around, to everything in between and a lot more I haven’t even touched on.
“gameplay” not “videogames” ya goalpost moving twat!
“Gameplay” is a distinctly difference facet from storytelling and is very objectively defined.
Get over your artsy fartsy bullshit and use your head. Tell me the plot to tic tac toe. You can’t, can you? You can however, define the objective, strategies, and means of interacting with the game state. That’s where game is and story isn’t.
I’m so sick of people missing the point for not even looking because they think they’re just here to win a prize.