That doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when you’re talking about a tiny platform full of entrenched pro-genocide centrists. Who do you imagine this vast Russian conspiiiiiiiiiracy to say things centrists don’t like on lemmy is going to convert?
We’re not talking about a platform of entrenched pro-genocide centrists, we’re taking about a platform of predominantly leftists. Now, many of those leftist are capable of critical thinking, so they don’t just parrot every half-baked idea they hear just because the person saying it claims to be an Authentic Communist™.
As to who it’s supposed to convert, that much is also obvious to any leftist with critical thinking skills: impressionable young idealists. Get them to refuse to support the “pro genocide centrists” out of a noble sense of justice, and the pro-genocide fascists clinch the win. Putin wins, Netanyahu wins, the military industrial complex wins, and those poor schmucks think they stuck it to the man while the fascists laugh their way into the White House.
a platform of predominantly leftists. Now, many of those leftists are capable of critical thinking, so they don’t just parrot every half-baked idea they hear just because the person saying it claims to be an Authentic Communist™.
have you done the leg work of letting your congress critters know you don’t support biden or harris on israel and that we need to implement an arms embargo? if not gtfo. until then I will continue to advocate people vote with their conscience. because I have done the work. biden/harris are blinking we need to push harder before the end of the month. I’m literally sitting here with my ballot waiting for harris to make an announcement prior to voting.
have you done the leg work of letting your congress critters know you don’t support biden or harris on israel and that we need to implement an arms embargo?
Yes.
I will continue to advocate people vote with their conscience. because I have done the work.
And you don’t understand electoral strategy, clearly. My conscience won’t allow me to sit aside while the fascist party wins, increases support of Israel, and spearheads genocide at home and abroad.
Of course I would prefer a candidate that aligned perfectly with my ideals and stood a chance of winning. There is not one. The only rational voting strategy is to select whichever of the viable options is less bad. In this election, that is undeniably Harris.
This game of chicken you’re playing has literally never worked. Harris will not pivot of Palestine because you and a bunch of terminally online performative leftists. They’ll go to the middle to find moderates if they need to.
No one can compel you to vote rationally, but I will continue to remind you and the people that make the same ineffective argument: if you “win” and Harris loses, things get considerably worse for women, minorities, LGBT, Ukrainian and, yes, even Palestinians.
Neo-libs in a messy connection with AIPAC are by no means perfect, but they are objectively better than the fascists who live Netanyahu and want to help him finish the job in Palestine and nuke Iran. The only people claiming different are those same fascists, and their useful idiots.
My conscience won’t allow me to sit aside while the fascist party wins
well clearly it will and so does harris’ since shes unwilling to commit to not enabling a genocide. pretty low bar shes failing to step over to get some easy votes. no one has said she isn’t allowed to defend israel if they’re attacked. shes just needs to commit to enforcing the law on the books about supplying arms to countries commiting genocide.
And you’re correct no one can compel me to vote rationally. the funny thing about acting rationally is that the definition of rationality is that it depends on the goal. My goal is to get harris to commit to upholding our laws on not selling to genocidal maniacs like bibi. Harris needs my vote (and others) to do so. just like she needs my vote to protect all those groups you mentioned, which if she was committing to a policy that endangered them I’d do the same thing.
first they came for the palestinians, but I was not a palestinian so I didn’t speak out… seem familiar?
so email your critters let them know you support a embargo on israel and that you want harris to make a commitment in the next week and if she does you have my vote and likely 40K minimum more in a swing state. worry about the zionists another day they’ll be fine. all you need to do is give harris permission. go forth and do so, repeatedly daily for the next week.
pretty low bar shes failing to step over to get some easy votes.
Israel is an ally. She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters. If those moderates outnumber the view she could get, she winda up with a smaller total. Why would she do that?
And you’re correct no one can compel me to vote rationally. the funny thing about acting rationally is that the definition of rationality is that it depends on the goal. My goal is to get harris to commit to upholding our laws on not selling to genocidal maniacs like bibi.
Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.
Harris needs my vote (and others) to do so.
Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.
just like she needs my vote to protect all those groups you mentioned, which if she was committing to a policy that endangered them I’d do the same thing.
Again, doesn’t need yours, just enough. You can be part of that “enough”, or force her to look elsewhere.
first they came for the palestinians, but I was not a palestinian so I didn’t speak out… seem familiar?
How exactly are the Palestinians, or the other minorities down your slippery slope, supposed to benefit by Harris losing? Harris is in a complex quagmire restricted by geopolitical red tape and AIPAC funding. The other guy loves Bibi and wants to help him finish the job.
so email your critters let them know you support a embargo on israel
Done, like a year ago.
and that you want harris to make a commitment in the next week and if she does you have my vote and likely 40K minimum more in a swing state. worry about the zionists another day they’ll be fine. all you need to do is give harris permission. go forth and do so, repeatedly daily for the next week.
This is pure nonsense. On multiple levels. I’ll leave you to your delulu
Any voters she would lose are far outweighed by the amount of voters she’d get. It’s about 5:1 from what the polls indicate, or about a +6 point gain. Quite significant considering how dead-locked the race is right now
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Our first matchup tested a Democrat and a Republican who “both agree with Israel’s current approach to the conflict in Gaza”. In this case, the generic candidates tied 44–44. The second matchup saw the same Republican facing a Democrat supporting “an immediate ceasefire and a halt of military aid and arms sales to Israel”. Interestingly, the Democrat led 49–43, with Independents and 2020 non-voters driving the bulk of this shift.
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
Yes, we call this ‘enabling’ and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don’t go ‘oh well they’re my friend’ I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.
She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters.
No one is asking her to not protect israel. but fun fact: they’re not moderates if they’re supporting a genocide.
Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act. personally I only decide how I can act. and seems like others agree with me and not you since harris can’t find votes.
Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.
you actually don’t know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you. I’m about as reliable as they come for votes; I show up every year and vote for people who represent me. if there are none, I show up for the ballot initiatives and leave the candidates blank. Its hardly my fault the DNC didn’t run a real primary to find the best candidate this year because we know harris wouldn’t have won.
Done, like a year ago.
samesies, do it again, repeatedly this week. =) they weren’t willing to do shit a year ago because they didn’t need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.
not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can’t help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as ‘not commiting genocide’ shrug.
if she had a solid platform she wouldn’t be floundering. I can’t do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i’m doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I’m letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.
we call this ‘enabling’ and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don’t go ‘oh well they’re my friend’ I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.
Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn’t matter what’s right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.
She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from
moderate Israel-supporters.
No one is asking her to not protect israel.
This reflects her stated position, but here you are saying it’s not good enough.
Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
It must be a strange sensation seeing it from the other side. Your entire strategy is based on assumptions about how others will act. The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.
Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.
you actually don’t know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
they weren’t willing to do shit a year ago because they didn’t need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can’t help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as ‘not commiting genocide’ shrug.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
if she had a solid platform she wouldn’t be floundering.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
I can’t do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i’m doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I’m letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn’t directly vote for him, it’s not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it’s not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it’s not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it’s not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.
Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn’t matter what’s right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.
agreed, and shes losing; all I can do is try and help by telling her what will get mine and apparently other votes.
The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.
the past does not predict the future. but it rhymes. and the past shows the democrats run to the right and lose. looks in harris’ direction
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
I’ve only made a single claim on how others will act and it was a group that literally said ‘stop the arm shipments to gaza’ and there are 100k of them in an important swing state.
Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn’t directly vote for him, it’s not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it’s not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it’s not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it’s not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.
correct. you see its a popularity contest, and apparently shes not winning and doesn’t know how to. a shame really. if only the DNC ran a real primary when faced with a historically disliked administration. well you lose some, you win some. but it is a shame and its a shame you wouldn’t put in the effort for all those groups you’re trying to place on my plate. my vote is here for the taking. its a shame she couldn’t check a single box on my list. I hope she pulls it off but for some reason it seems like she wont.
Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.
its funny you think your giant list of minority groups who actually have rights and trump wont be able to take them away by himself is more important to me than the 40k people already murdered and million + put at risk by the biden admin inability to have a spine. its why he lost support (among a plethora of other issues, like union busting) and just slapping harris’ name on the top of the ticket won’t change that outcome. sorry but the deaths are the greater evil. I will not choose between the minority groups. you can compromise if you wish I won’t.
That doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when you’re talking about a tiny platform full of entrenched pro-genocide centrists. Who do you imagine this vast Russian conspiiiiiiiiiracy to say things centrists don’t like on lemmy is going to convert?
We’re not talking about a platform of entrenched pro-genocide centrists, we’re taking about a platform of predominantly leftists. Now, many of those leftist are capable of critical thinking, so they don’t just parrot every half-baked idea they hear just because the person saying it claims to be an Authentic Communist™.
As to who it’s supposed to convert, that much is also obvious to any leftist with critical thinking skills: impressionable young idealists. Get them to refuse to support the “pro genocide centrists” out of a noble sense of justice, and the pro-genocide fascists clinch the win. Putin wins, Netanyahu wins, the military industrial complex wins, and those poor schmucks think they stuck it to the man while the fascists laugh their way into the White House.
Yes, we are. We’re talking about lemmy.
Yes, Lemmy, predominantly leftist
have you done the leg work of letting your congress critters know you don’t support biden or harris on israel and that we need to implement an arms embargo? if not gtfo. until then I will continue to advocate people vote with their conscience. because I have done the work. biden/harris are blinking we need to push harder before the end of the month. I’m literally sitting here with my ballot waiting for harris to make an announcement prior to voting.
Yes.
And you don’t understand electoral strategy, clearly. My conscience won’t allow me to sit aside while the fascist party wins, increases support of Israel, and spearheads genocide at home and abroad.
Of course I would prefer a candidate that aligned perfectly with my ideals and stood a chance of winning. There is not one. The only rational voting strategy is to select whichever of the viable options is less bad. In this election, that is undeniably Harris.
This game of chicken you’re playing has literally never worked. Harris will not pivot of Palestine because you and a bunch of terminally online performative leftists. They’ll go to the middle to find moderates if they need to.
No one can compel you to vote rationally, but I will continue to remind you and the people that make the same ineffective argument: if you “win” and Harris loses, things get considerably worse for women, minorities, LGBT, Ukrainian and, yes, even Palestinians.
Neo-libs in a messy connection with AIPAC are by no means perfect, but they are objectively better than the fascists who live Netanyahu and want to help him finish the job in Palestine and nuke Iran. The only people claiming different are those same fascists, and their useful idiots.
well clearly it will and so does harris’ since shes unwilling to commit to not enabling a genocide. pretty low bar shes failing to step over to get some easy votes. no one has said she isn’t allowed to defend israel if they’re attacked. shes just needs to commit to enforcing the law on the books about supplying arms to countries commiting genocide.
And you’re correct no one can compel me to vote rationally. the funny thing about acting rationally is that the definition of rationality is that it depends on the goal. My goal is to get harris to commit to upholding our laws on not selling to genocidal maniacs like bibi. Harris needs my vote (and others) to do so. just like she needs my vote to protect all those groups you mentioned, which if she was committing to a policy that endangered them I’d do the same thing.
first they came for the palestinians, but I was not a palestinian so I didn’t speak out… seem familiar?
so email your critters let them know you support a embargo on israel and that you want harris to make a commitment in the next week and if she does you have my vote and likely 40K minimum more in a swing state. worry about the zionists another day they’ll be fine. all you need to do is give harris permission. go forth and do so, repeatedly daily for the next week.
Israel is an ally. She can’t get those easy votes without losing votes from moderate Israel-supporters. If those moderates outnumber the view she could get, she winda up with a smaller total. Why would she do that?
Well then your actions are irrational because they do not help accomplish your goal, despite your fantasies to the contrary.
Eh, she needs enough votes. She doesn’t need yours specifically. If she can’t get yours, she’ll shill to moderates to get theirs, because strategically that’s much smarter than alienating a large, reliable bloc in order to gain a portion of the much smaller, much less reliable bloc you represent.
Again, doesn’t need yours, just enough. You can be part of that “enough”, or force her to look elsewhere.
How exactly are the Palestinians, or the other minorities down your slippery slope, supposed to benefit by Harris losing? Harris is in a complex quagmire restricted by geopolitical red tape and AIPAC funding. The other guy loves Bibi and wants to help him finish the job.
Done, like a year ago.
This is pure nonsense. On multiple levels. I’ll leave you to your delulu
Any voters she would lose are far outweighed by the amount of voters she’d get. It’s about 5:1 from what the polls indicate, or about a +6 point gain. Quite significant considering how dead-locked the race is right now
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Yes, we call this ‘enabling’ and its bad. if my friend goes and murders someone in cold blood I don’t go ‘oh well they’re my friend’ I fucking turn them in so they can get the help they clearly need.
No one is asking her to not protect israel. but fun fact: they’re not moderates if they’re supporting a genocide.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act. personally I only decide how I can act. and seems like others agree with me and not you since harris can’t find votes.
you actually don’t know that. and neither does she. shes just scared as are you. I’m about as reliable as they come for votes; I show up every year and vote for people who represent me. if there are none, I show up for the ballot initiatives and leave the candidates blank. Its hardly my fault the DNC didn’t run a real primary to find the best candidate this year because we know harris wouldn’t have won.
samesies, do it again, repeatedly this week. =) they weren’t willing to do shit a year ago because they didn’t need the votes. now is the time to give them permission.
yes, pure nonesense.
not my fault harris is floundering for votes. I can’t help that shes committed to a platform that has historically low approval and is unwilling to commit to anything not even a bar as low as ‘not commiting genocide’ shrug.
if she had a solid platform she wouldn’t be floundering. I can’t do anything about that except clearly broadcast my expectations to the democratic party. which i’m doing daily. you are of course free to do nothing. but harris needs votes to win and I’m letting her know how to get mine. balls in her court.
heres my fence, lets see if she can get over it!
Unfortunately, elections are a popularity contest, not a morality test. It doesn’t matter what’s right, it matters what enough voters in the right states approve of.
This reflects her stated position, but here you are saying it’s not good enough.
It must be a strange sensation seeing it from the other side. Your entire strategy is based on assumptions about how others will act. The difference is that your assumptions are based on pure unsupported fantasy, while mine are based on historical evidence.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
thats, like, your opinion man. all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
all your points are around assumptions about how others will act.
Sure, hold your nose, and when Trump wins you can snuggle say you didn’t directly vote for him, it’s not your fault LGBT people are getting carted off to camps, it’s not your fault women are legally considered breeding stock, it’s not your fault Palestine is a sheet of glass, it’s not your fault we pulled aid from Ukraine and sent it to Israel. Harris should have done more to seduce you into supporting human rights, it’s her fault you helped the greater evil.
agreed, and shes losing; all I can do is try and help by telling her what will get mine and apparently other votes.
the past does not predict the future. but it rhymes. and the past shows the democrats run to the right and lose. looks in harris’ direction
I’ve only made a single claim on how others will act and it was a group that literally said ‘stop the arm shipments to gaza’ and there are 100k of them in an important swing state.
correct. you see its a popularity contest, and apparently shes not winning and doesn’t know how to. a shame really. if only the DNC ran a real primary when faced with a historically disliked administration. well you lose some, you win some. but it is a shame and its a shame you wouldn’t put in the effort for all those groups you’re trying to place on my plate. my vote is here for the taking. its a shame she couldn’t check a single box on my list. I hope she pulls it off but for some reason it seems like she wont.
its funny you think your giant list of minority groups who actually have rights and trump wont be able to take them away by himself is more important to me than the 40k people already murdered and million + put at risk by the biden admin inability to have a spine. its why he lost support (among a plethora of other issues, like union busting) and just slapping harris’ name on the top of the ticket won’t change that outcome. sorry but the deaths are the greater evil. I will not choose between the minority groups. you can compromise if you wish I won’t.