• kava@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    war in Ukraine is not a civil war

    The war started in 2014 with Euromaidan. Where the pro-Russian government got ousted in a violent coup/revolution/uprising (what you call it depends on what you believe). The pro-Russian president had to flee the country.

    Then a new government was quickly appointed, unconstitutionally, and that government is the current one. That administration was made up of far right leaders (think people like Andriy Biletsky). This administration immediately started cooperating with the CIA the very first day.

    Then Russia invaded Crimea and started the covert operation in Donbas a few days after that.

    It’s more complicated than saying it’s an invasion of a sovereign nation. It’s not a civil war either, you are right. But I think it’s closer to the Spanish Civil War than the invasion of Poland.

    Really it’s: a coup triggered a war of independence against Russia. Ukraine was firmly in Russian sphere from 91 until 2014. Once that stopped being true, Russia invaded.

    But I like to think of the Spanish Civil War because it’s the proxy war before the war. It’s a place for big powers to test new technologies. Get ready for the inevitable showdown.

    • lurklurk@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Ukraine was a sovereign state globally recognised as such, including by Russia. It’s not a war of independence against Russia anymore that Poland had a war of independence against Germany in 1939

      This is russian propaganda revisionism, and if you’re arguing in good faith I can only advise you to make a serious inventory of what sources of news and information you consume

      • kava@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        japan is a sovereign nation too. one that doesn’t get to decide whether a foreign power from across the pacific ocean gets to park military bases in their land.

        there’s a long spectrum from totally under control -> totally independent and you will find that virtually every smaller country is rarely totally independent

        i’d like to challenge you and show me one thing i said that was false. it’s easy to throw shade say something like “everything you are saying is because you have fallen for propaganda, whereas me I am pure and untouched by propaganda”

        russia was content with Ukraine being loosely coupled. They were not OK with Ukraine totally leaving the Russian sphere and joining the west. this is what triggered the invasion of Crimea and the little green men from the east.

        you can see a similar, albiet different, dynamic with Taiwan and China. China is content (for now) with Taiwan remaining sort-of independent. but once the US for example says something “Taiwan is an independent country” they would invade.

        • lurklurk@lemmy.world
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          15 hours ago

          japan is a sovereign nation too. one that doesn’t get to decide whether a foreign power from across the pacific ocean gets to park military bases in their land.

          Japan did try to invade quite a lot of places and then lose the ensuing war to end up there though. Ukraine didn’t really do that

          russia was content with Ukraine being loosely coupled. They were not OK with Ukraine totally leaving the Russian sphere and joining the west. this is what triggered the invasion of Crimea and the little green men from the east.

          That rethoric is applicable to almost any russian neighbour. Which countries would you be fine with russia invading if they win in Ukraine? Finland again? The baltics again? Poland again?

          Also Russia’s invasion isn’t something “triggered” any more than an abused spouse “triggers” the violence against them. Russia could have followed international law and not invaded, and so far it seems it would even have been better for them. Blaming Ukraine for getting invaded is pretty russian propaganda in my eyes.