I highly doubt the left will do anything uncivil. How can they win back the country? Is it too late?
Go to your Democratic party and demand change.
Find a candidate that will stand on the basis of free healthcare, equal rights, the right to union, enforcing a higher minimum wage, enforcing paid sick leave and a minimum of 20 days holiday a year, and committing to lowering the cost of living.
Once someone stands up for this, push them to the moon for the next four years. Tell anyone else NOT on this platform to fuck off.
Essentially, America needs a Project 2029.
The average death age of any empire is 250 years.
Tick tock America. You’re proving that figure to be correct.
America has past the point of no return on education. Anti-intellectualism is the status quo now. It’s only gonna get worse now.
Biden could do some official acts. But he won’t.
Facism is capitalism in decay. America just proved that the decay is rapid.
Liberal institutions just paved the way for facism to take root.
I’d like to learn more about
Facism is capitalism in decay.
Is that just a think people say or are their studies or books about this?
Facism is a reaction to the institutional failures of capitalism brought about by many scholars. Mainly brought about by the working class left behind looking for a change to the system.
Places in history where it happened
italy (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy with trains to run on time germany (1920’s) voters wanted a stronger economy without a destabilization of currency
Is that just a think people say or are there studies or books about this?
Americans have lost. Bestyou can do is try to save NATO.
I’m not sure that we do. Not in our lifetimes anyway.
With a functional justice department we’d have a chance. There’s nothing to stop them from tweaking the electoral lines. There’s nothing to stop them from not certifying an election. We’re about to have the scotus filled with young like-minded Republicans. We’re about to have every federal judge biased for them.
Even having both sides of Congress the best thing we could do would be to status quo because every time a veto is overturned the scotus could just stamp it down as unconstitutional.
The president has God King status, he can have opponents jail for executed.
The thing is even if none of these things were in play, The popular vote just voted for a dictatorship. He was utterly and absolutely clear and anyone that says he was joking around doesn’t actually believe that they’re just too embarrass socially to announce that they themselves are racist/fascist/misogynist. There is nothing here to win back. We’re better than 50% rotten to the core and those people aren’t going away.
Even this election wasn’t right versus left it’s right versus more right. If you put a true left candidate in they’re just going to get murdered. (That may or may not be literal)
Clearly not by voting, you guys sucks at it.
I didn’t particularly care for all of Harris’s positions and history, but I voted for her. I know many who felt the same. Even considering attacks on ballot drop boxes and such, based on what I’ve read so far, the majority of voting Americans picked the… Well, the one whom appears to have won.
So, to me, the question is not the one you proposed. The question to me is more along the lines of getting more voters/engagement and the like. To your actual question: they actually got it back and it makes me feel sick and ashamed, but that is the reality as much as I despise it.
THIS is the moment where everyone should be creating 3rd party candidates and going to the streets to spread awareness for the next election.
Not 6 months before the election with trump as a possibility. Get out there and promote 3rd party now, when people are pissed at Democrats for throwing it all away for Israel and people are pissed the trump won.
IMO third party is not viable unless we change our voting system and people keep voting out the progressive reform party so fat chance.
EDIT: 100% for independents in Congress tho, as long as it doesnt split the vote for progressives.
Do you really think they lost over their stance on Israel/Palestina? Not saying it doesn’t matter. But I feel if you see how many votes republicans got, that a lot of (perceived) domestic issues played a very big role.
20 million people did not stay home over Palestine. People aware of that issue are also acutely aware of the fact Trump would be worse.
Apparently a lot of apathy among dem voters, or they also think a strongman for a while would be OK.
No, 3rd party will always be spoiler at best with the election system we have… Now is the time to figure out who runs the local Dems in your state/county/city/town and take them over… We need to take over the Dems and transition them to the party of the future
The polls say the economy was the reason, not foreign policy.
Ruling parties are being flipped all over the world because inflation has been bad since Covid. It’s a pity your only other option was Trump.
Yep. Rough economic times seem to cause the incumbent pres to lose. People seem to think the president controls the economy.
It can get worse!
If Trump actually won, it is too late. Time to make plans to leave if you can, otherwise, prepare for the worst
Got any tips to get started on that? I’ve got a wife and kids to take with me, so emigration will be complicated.
When will countries start accepting US asylum seekers?
If you got skills, pick a country and go to their immigration website. They will happily walk you through the process.
Don’t call yourself an asylum seeker. Generally the rest of the world welcomes American immigrants, but we all get a bit antsy when it comes to helping people who actually need help.
Well, it varies country by country but if you apply as a refugee/asylum seeker that usually includes your family. There may be some other options for becoming a resident, but this varies a lot depending of the country
The us is ground hog day, they won’t win it back instead they will spend two years bickering then two years bad mouthing and it will continue to repeat as they believe they’ve got ‘democracy’ you guys don’t your being played by the political elites and the capitalist. Also stop throwing liberal around as a broad left notion, liberalism is an insult to any leftist.
If you want change then join a socialist party that is connected to an international. Make moves in unions. Build workers power. Be willing to fight. Educate yourselves so you can educate others. Marxism isn’t some silly notion or wond waving. Its a scientific approach to a healthy and just society, Karl Marx watched the birth of global capitalism, predicted its failures: failures we are still seeing today, and sort to tackle the issue with years of research and analysis. What he made is a solid base for us to build on.
Honestly at this point y’all should just get the fuck out. Where to? Anywhere honestly. You’ll probably find the third world preferable to a post project 2025 Murica.
Russia’s been having a major brain drain issue as all people with functioning brains either have escaped or want to escape the country. I don’t see why Americans should do any different.
FWIW a candidate the left could vote for instead of someone to vote against would help.
It would.
But I think that ship has sailed.
And honestly it might be the third-worlder-accustomed-to-things-being-uttter-bullshit in me. But I think “Winning back the country” is an unrealistic and foolhardy goal. Everyone who is on the radar for being harmed by Trump should look out for themselves and their own. Which includes “getting the fuck out of the country” if that is what it takes.
Additionally: A significant portion of the country won today. They got exactly what they wanted. And pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one’s own ears.
I’d recommend assassination, in Minecraft. If you’re leaving the server and everything is fucked then do one for the team and cause some heads to roll, in Minecraft. The right used violence and it led to the presidency. A coup was rewarded. Let’s take some notes.
I am going to commit several violent acts (in Stellaris)
pretending that this neofascism is some kind of external infection is tantamount to covering one’s own ears.
See, I think it’s mixed. You’re absolutely right that people voted for this. At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point. Authoritarianism has been low-key popular at least since the 90s (maybe earlier, but the 90s was when I started school, and learned by experience that fascism is how the school system operates.) People are scared to rock the boat against their “leaders,” and given enough time, this is the result.
I wish I had time right now to write more about this, because there is some deep psychological manipulation that’s embedded in the fabric of this country. It doesn’t excuse people’s behaviors, but knowing how and why they operate is crucial to understanding the big picture.
At the same time, years of propaganda by monied interests have led us up to this point
See you’re right but –
– Those monied interests are also coming from within. The wealthy and powerful from America who see this as a way to consolidate and protect their own wealth and power.
Silicon Valley wanted Neofascism. Wall Street wanted Neofascism. Fracking Barons like the Koch Brother(s) wanted Neofascism. Some out in the open, like the afore-mentioned Koch(s) and Elon Musk, but make no mistake, every billionaire who “shuts up about politics” is most likely a Neofascist in private, because this benefits them.
The people in America are heavily propagandised, but that propaganda is funded and developed by and for the benefit of the wealthy within America itself.
Some people lean really hard into the whole “russian influence” thing because it is comforting. And it is entirely possible that there ARE Russian fingers in this pie – Russia does benefit from a weakened America, in any way they CAN weaken it. Heck, China and the Middle Eastern powers do too, so maybe they have fingers in that pie too.
But never forget that it started with wealthy Americans, and not some foreign agent. And if every foreign influence walked away, it would continue without them.
Theoretically, The Revolution™ that lefties like me talk about could change things. Just like theoretically, a peaceful political reform could change things. Theoretically.
But I’m from the third world. Hopelessness is my
bread and butterrice and beans. So I’m entirely accustomed to daydreaming of one day things changing, while expecting elections to change nothing, and knowing for a fact that any attempt at armed fighting would most likely end in a victory for the bad guys (they have the bigger guns).The idea of “things are already fucked, have been since before you were born, if you want to make a difference, look out for yourself and those you CAN help, make a difference in the micro, because The System as a macro thing is outside your reach entirely” is in fact how most people have dealt with things since forever, and we survive.
It sounds like we’re on the same page. I didn’t mention foreign influence, only monied influence, which is the same thing you’re saying.
My point was that these influences previously existed in the U.S. long before now. They didn’t materialize out of the blue. Anyone who’s been explicitly anti-fascist prior to the past decade knows that there was already an undercurrent pulling people in that direction.
I appreciate hearing your perspective, and you’re absolutely on point. One thing I know for sure is that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
Pretty sure Trump said we wouldn’t have to worry about voting anymore. It would all be taken care of.
Come on up to Canada. We’ve been suffering brain drain for ages, and could sure use some scientists and doctors!
We will take you in NZ.
No you won’t, NZ is one of the hardest countries to immigrate to.
Damn, and europe already has a lot of refugees to deal with :p
This has actually all been a very elaborate “come to Brazil” meme on my part.Jokes aside, given how a lot of our people tend to worship the floor 'Murica walks on, if a bunch of refugees from the US came over, they’d probably be welcomed with open arms. :PI suppose we shall see. They have a decent agreement with Germany to my knowledge. But only if you want to work on the black market or live on the streets
I hear Japan is practically giving houses away…
Eat shit.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment. Letting America fall will have global repercussions. Instructing us to give up is not helpful.
This post is about recovery, not abandonment
Recovery from what? Fascism is what your own neighbours chose. This is the system working exactly as intended and pretending it’s not is covering one’s own eyes. There are hundreds of millions of Americans for whom this is a good day. They have the backing of the wealthy and powerful. And their project is to remove any chance of them ever losing power again.
Thinking you’ll stop something like Project 2025 in the ballot box is willful ignorance at this point.
Since OP has already made it clear that “violent uprising” is not on the cards, then the alternative is to get out while they can. Hopefully while helping others do the same. Save themselves and their own. Survive and maybe you can make a difference from the outside.
When Germany went all Nazi in the 30s~40s you know who DID make a difference? Not the political opposition who got slaughtered. And not the people who let the Nazis walk all over them while claiming they were still better because they were “civil”. It was resistance fighters who helped the allies fight and minorities to escape. And people who got out of Germany and then joined the fight on the side of the allies.
Also:
Eat shit.
Don’t threaten me with a good time, gringo <3
I gave up this morning. America gave up on you at birth.
Sending this dude a dm on NZ. I’m sure they need mechanics.
Education, unfortunately those in the most need of it are out of an educational institution so they will only be fed on a diet of commercialism and disinformation.
Some children really did get left behind
It’s been “too late” for 'mericans to “win back the country” for a couple of decades at least. I mean, the entire electoral/voting system needs to be redone from the ground up because it’s very non-democratic.
If Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote I’d say it is.non-Democratic. But he won the popular vote too. So half the country are just self destructive.
Quite the change from 2016, when he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million. Congrats, 'murica.
Yeah we are not trending in the right direction here.
California has only counted around half their votes so a popular vote win for Kamala could be a thing.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
If you had 100% turnout the popular vote would be very different.
People don’t vote because they see the system is rigged so the popular vote isn’t a great standard to go by either, it’s a product of the system as well
My area is such a strong republican district that my vote is functionally irrelevant aside from the president. Hell, they didn’t even bother with democrat candidates on a local level.
There were no good options. And that’s because of the electoral system.
There was a so-so option and a terrible option IMO.
I’m sorry, you’re looking at these results and seeing too little democracy in play?
Yes. The Dems lost this election more than the Reps won it.
And no, it’s not just Harris. It’s the fact they haven’t accomplished anything substantially changing the lives of people for dozens of years, and they fought more against people like Sanders than people like Cheney.
Doesn’t help that you have old hags like Nancy Pelosi refusing to relinquish any power and pass the torch to someone younger. People shouldn’t have to wait for you to die to take the reigns.
The ACA never happened in your mind?
The ACA, which brought US healthcare from an 18th century level to a 19th century one in 2010, was a half measure under Obama, he got reelected for it, he was president for 7 more years after he signed that.
First time voters today were 4 years old when it happened. What else has the Democratic Party been doing? How about the housing crisis? How about inflation? Oh, they got that one 1400 USD stimmy check passed after Trump looted the coffers for corpos big and small.
Look, I’m not saying Harris wasn’t the better, less destructive choice. I’m saying something had had to happen, and people didn’t turn out for a candidate who said the past four years and the way the world is going is good. Not as well as for someone who saw problems and proposed - admittedly monstrous and ineffective - solutions.
Yes. It’s not half of America, it’s half of the voters. Things would change drastically if only the nonvoter voted.
If you consider that more people didn’t vote for Trump and he still won, then yes.
