Who’s the cheap one in this equation?
… the customer who is paying the owner of the restaurant for the food AND is obligated by social convention to pay extra to the waiter who is underpaid.
or
… the restaurant owner who doesn’t mind living in a world where we have normalized underpaying restaurant workers to the point where we pass down that responsibility to the customer who is already paying for the food.
Pay your workers a proper wage and get rid of the idea of tipping.
Don’t like tipping? Protest the policies by not going to restaurants, dont shove it on the workers who are stuck in the system.
The owner is 100% happy you came to pay him and not the waiter he didnt wanna pay anyway.
How does this form of protest translate into a change of the tipping system?
Yeah this protest only works if there are also another set of restaurants that specifically tell you not to tip that you can give business to. I have been to some but they are very rare where I live.
Or just don’t go to restaurants. There are other ways of getting food.
Forcing everyone to live the way you want to live is such a cretin way of thinking lmfao
Blocked lmfao.
Enjoy your echo chamber, dumbass.
At this point youre just being disingenuous. There’s a thousand comments in this thread answering that question, and explaining why stiffing the workers doesn’t really affect the owners, or incentivise them to change anything.
If no one is going there and they don’t know why, and they’re losing money because they’re not getting enough business, they’re not going to decide the solution is to start paying their waiters more. That will just cause them to close down sooner.
Also, just as they don’t know why people stopped going there unless every single one calls them and makes it clear it’s due to tipping/wages, the people protesting aren’t going to know even if they do start paying the waiters more.
Almost every waiter I’ve ever spoken to also prefers tipping because they make more than if they were being paid more, because the business isn’t going to pay them as high as they were making in tips (on average).
The only way they even could, is if they raised the price of everything by 25%. As much as people say they’d be fine with that, such high prices would drive some number of people away. There’s also the issue that if the business owner realised people would pay that much higher, they’d inevitably keep some for themselves and only somewhat increase server wages.
This isn’t to say that I think avoiding tipping is the way to fix it either, just that I don’t think it’s as clear cut as just avoiding the business.
Yeah lets ignore all of history and just invent stuff about “free markets”. All this and you haven’t addressed why we bother with minimum wage at all if this was true. Or why we bother with OSHA if construction workers would just pressure companies to change.
You know when the ad for your phone bill says “no hidden fees” ? They know that’s what people cared about, and they changed it. Now it’s just commonplace even when it’s not regulated. Shoving this on the worker makes no sense, the employer has the leverage
Those are laws. If you want a law that bans tipping and assures a higher wage for waiters then sure, that’s fine, but boycotting businesses won’t get those laws made.
Cmon dude. All these people are saying we don’t need these laws because waiters can just quit to pressure businesses to pay them well. So why do these laws even exist? You didnt even respond to the last post. I wont hold my breath.
Businesses that don’t have convoluted pay schemes that involve tips will die, and businesses that advertise tipping isn’t a thing will thrive, like has happened many times in the past.
You know what doesn’t change anything? Forcing the people stuck in the system to get more stuck in the system…
Thats one way of looking at it… but if everyone would stop tipping, they would be forced to pay them a living wage or go out of business when all the staff quit. Its actually in the consumers power to effect that change, but only on a mass scale. Unfortunately its an awkward social coercion tactic at play now, which just continues to perpetuate the problem pitting us against each other just as capitalism intends to.
If tips are bad, the worker quits. If sales are bad, the worker is fired and might collect unemployment benefits.
So we don’t need OSHA? We can just let construction workers quit if the contractors make them do dangerous stuff?
Youre a bit oblivious to your privilege. People can’t just quit or yknow, they starve.
Honestly, in these debates more often than not I find that the waiters don’t want tipping culture changed either. A lot (not all, I understand) of waiters make bank on tips and then don’t accurately report them as income so it’s not even taxed correctly. They don’t want that to change.
I don’t give a shit what the waiter wants honestly, I shouldn’t have to pay the owner and the worker separately
I don’t disagree with you.
Fuck that, there’s federal mandated minimum wage if waiters don’t make enough through tips. You’re a misinformation spreading lunatic. Probably right wing too.
Tipping is fine, but as in “keep the change”, not “we need to change this tipping culture”
I have no problem with tipping, I have a problem with expected tipping.
Waiters should be paid properly and tips should not be expected or even mentioned. If I get exceptional service, I may want to leave a tip. There should be an optional tip section when paying the bill, but no separate screen or list of expected tips (or even percentage calculations) anywhere at all.
And who is hurt by not tipping
The staff member who is likely significantly impoverished…
OR
The business owner who got the $12 he’s charging you for tendies?
The business owner doesn’t give two shits if you tip, they get paid either way and $7.25 an hour per employee is pocket change to them.
Here’s the equation. Restaurants keep food costs low by paying servers next to nothing. If they paid them what they deserve, the cost of your meal would increase.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
If you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a restaurant that has servers.
Now, other places that actually pay a living wage and also have a tip button (ie concession stands at a sporting event) can get fucked.
Except that I’m fine if the cost of my meal increases if they paid their servers what they deserve.
Same here. I’m just saying don’t protest tipping by not tipping. You’re screwing the wrong person.
Honestly if you think about it. The cost of your meal going up and the cost of tipping are not different in their end result for the consumer.
The employee still gets the short end because people won’t always tip. Or even show up.
The owner gets the long (?) end because they don’t have to pay their workers a higher wage (very bad if it’s a slow day) and the customers who otherwise wouldn’t have eaten there if the prices were high will still eat there and not tip.
So it really doesn’t effect the consumer at all but it does effect the employee quite a bit for sure.
Are you suggesting that food prices will go up by more than the cost of the tip tacked on?
Because if not it’s really just more honest pricing, and the same (or reduced) impact on customers, but without having to do math or having the option of being a leech.
If tipping ended and restaurants paid their servers, food prices would go up. That is undeniable.
You are eating at a discount with the expectation that you will pay the owner’s employee for them. Yes, it is unfair and sucks but the one making out like a bandit here is the owner.
So, not tipping is your way of benefiting personally on a discounted meal AND STILL giving the owner money. And the only one you have punished in your equation is a server (the leech???) who is generally living off that tip day to day.
So if you want to make an impact, quit going to restaurants that have tipping as an expectation! That’s it! Otherwise you are just encouraging the owner to keep the status quo!
It’s not a discount if you are expected to pay more to add a tip.
But dude, quit changing the subject, I’m not talking about people not tipping within the current system, never have been, and neither was the person you originally replied to. I’ve worked tipped positions, so I very much understand how they work.
So again, are you suggesting that if we do away with tipping, costs of food would increase by MORE than the present amount of a tip that gets tacked on? Because that’s the only way prices for the end consumer actually meaningfully raise. Most likely they will actually go down overall. Because again you have to pay the tip too.
You are really bad at reading comprehension btw. That, or you are a piss-poor troll and intentionally misrepresenting literally everything… the option to be a leech is the customer, who in the present system can skip the tip. Like a leech.
Also, there aren’t any restaurants around me that scrapped tipping, not a single fucking one within at least an hour of where I live, so your suggestion is impossible for me and very privileged.
Here’s another part of the equation, the owner gets enough of a share of the business profit where they can buy a new house, expand to multiple locations, buy new cars, etc.
The extra couple bucks an hour per employee is a tiny drop in the cost pool per business operational hour compared to that. They could perfectly well keep prices the same without paying sub-minimum wages by taking a smaller cut themselves.
So by not tipping, you are benefiting from the low cost of food while screwing over the person that has no control over the situation. YTA
Customers aren’t the assholes for the failures of the restaurant industry, just as customers aren’t the assholes for the refusal of the federal government to ensure restaurant workers are paid a living wage.
Customers who don’t tip are not the enemy.
*artificially low cost of food
About that, though: yeah they are.
The owner is evil, but anyone who doesn’t tip a waiter that earns too little to be able to afford to live is an asshole.
Here’s a tip: that waiter should unionize.
You heard it here folks, it’s just that easy. Unionize today! I’m sure there is a well established Union already in your area ready to take you on and fight for you and your $15 a month in dues! Go gettem, tiger.
Of all the reasons I’ve seen for why people struggle to unionize, I have never seen anyone suggest that unions don’t want members.
It’s not that they don’t want members, it’s that people assume all unions are massive machines capable of turning your life around in a second, where in reality most of them will give you some legal packets so you know your rights, and a pat on the back if you take your employer to court. There isn’t a large restaurant union in my city, just a few small ones that are focused on single businesses. We all have to start somewhere, but just up and joining a small union isn’t going to help when the owner of the business can just let you go and hire someone else who isn’t unionized.
Why stop at waiters? I’ve had several jobs that didn’t pay a livable wage, only in restaurants did my customers feel obligated to tip me.
As someone who works in the service industry, this is the argument that I see all the time. “We aren’t going to subsidize your wage because your owner is an asshole.” Weird, you have no problem being a patron of his establishment. Do you think that your refusal to tip somehow hurts him? Because it doesn’t. It only hurts the staff. My argument always has and always will be that we increase the cost of menu items by 18% and then split that additional 18% with the staff. However, that idea always falls flat with the owner because, “We’ll be the most expensive restaurant in town. No one will come here.” Which is a valid concern. And so, we are at an impasse. He can’t afford to pay me what I’m worth, and he can’t increase the cost of the menu or he’ll outprice his customers, and I can’t quit because it’s not better at any other restaurant. In the end, in any direction, the customer is going to pay more, either as a tip, or just for the cost of the food, or they’ll pay with worse service because the experienced staff can’t afford to work there anymore. Refusing to tip isn’t a protest, it’s just being cheap and making yourself feel better about it. If tipping went away, prices would have to increase, and either way, the buck stops with the consumer. Want to eat cheaper? Cook at home. I’m sure you’ll be just as good as any of your favorite restaurants with their specialized equipment and cooks with a decade of experience.
I hope all you downvoters have something of value to contribute… Oh, no, you’re just downvoting to show your solidarity with the rest of the cheap-os? Ok, enjoy your meal.
So… If i read this correctly… The net difference is zero? Except when I’m being an asshole and I dont tip.
So in the end, this boils down to offering the option of being an asshole to your customers.
As an european I always find this discussion weird. And when visiting stateside I never really can “gauge” what I should tip. Am i in a joint which underpays the server? Is (s)he fine? Is 10% enough? More? Should i just make it whole? I just never know. I sometimes even have resorted to just bluntly ask the server or a patron what is customary. (my weird accent helps getting an honest answer)
It’s quite honestly a shit fest. There is an amount on the billl… But that isnt the real amount, except when you’re an asshole. And if you over tip you’re still an asshole, just a stupid one, and if you’re undertip you’re also an asshole.
Come to think about it: it really boils down to which kind of asshole do you want to be.
It’s a VAT, but it’s a choose your own VAT, and it’s based on what the service is worth to you. The customary amount is 20%, but a lot of people go between 15% and 20%, with my average take home being around 13% because of the people that don’t tip. So, choose your VAT. In the end, when adjusted for the cost of living, eating out in the EU is about the same as eating out in the US and adding a tip. The tip is just already included in the meal cost. If we could all agree to do that in the US, then it would be fine, but we can’t, so it isn’t done. It’s part of the establishment at this point, and change is something hard to sort out across 330 Million people all at once.
Only thing that stands out to me is the percentages you’ve listed. I was always taught (and most of my peers seem to have been as well) that the normal tip for average service was 15%. Poor service (that is in the waiter’s control) gets 10%, and good/great is 18-22% (but usually 20%).
I was born in the early 90s if it makes a difference.
Varies regionally. For example, San Francisco techies should be tipping 20% (for typical sitdown service).
It used to be that way, but now standard is 20%.
I was also taught that egregious service (like bigoted remarks from the waitstaff or getting told to go fuck yourself) gets 1¢ to assure you aren’t just someone who doesn’t tip
No idea why you’re being downvoted so much, you’re absolutely on point for US restaurants. I’ve served in them, I’ve managed them (still didn’t fucking get paid doing that)
And this press the union button bullshit above is insane. Restaurants have like a 5% success rate already, if they can just yeet entire Starbucks/Walmart locations on a whim, how the fuck do you guys think that’s going to go with a restaurant?
Unionizing may be the best route, but we have to stop pretending it’s a walk in the park to do.
I’m getting downvoted by the same people who think that it’s OK to pirate all the current running TV shows and movies. Everyone is selfish, everyone wants it for free.
There’s no problem with piracy if you never ever ever intend to subscribe to a streaming service though. Give me the option to pay for DRM-free .mkv files with differing qualities and bit rates and I’d consider not pirating, provided the prices are reasonable.
I don’t know why you’re downvoted, it’s the average decent opinion: the pay has to be somewhere, either fixed in the prices or in decent tips.
Sorry for the downvotes. Lemmy users can be remarkably shitty
Replace waiter with “CEO” and you begin to understand why socialists believe what they do
Except instead of 25%, it’s 250%.
And the company owners do not walk or have to deal with customers.
Of course they don’t walk, they ride pelotons
It must be hard not knowing even the most basic math. How is this CEO getting more money than I pay for the meal?
Sorry, I probably should have explained better, it’s a bit of intentionally misusing the meaning of the term “value” for a joke - the original greentext said “25% of the value of the food”, so if you think of the amount of money required to purchase the raw ingredients and the labour required to create the final meal, that could be considered 100% of the food’s value. So if the food cost $5 to make, the company would sell it at $12.50 to get 250% of the “value” of the food.
But the term “value” usually refers to whatever the customer is willing to pay in exchange for a product, so the joke has an extra meaning - the CEO demands to be paid 2.5x more than anyone is actually willing to pay for it.
Ironically though, CEOs getting paid more than the value of any of the actual sales they generate isn’t uncommon, especially in tech. There are a number of economic sectors (like tech) that function effectively as ponzi schemes. “Venture capitalist” firms invest in tech companies which never actually generate a profit, in the hopes that they will at some point hit it big and make a shitload of profit - which does happen, every now and again: Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.
Eventually, most tech companies reach a point where they’re pretty much about to collapse, then they’re bought out by some other company - either a larger tech company that wants to acquire their intellectual property, or some other company to strip them of assets or just hold onto the company for some other purpose.
The majority of the VC-funded tech sector is completely unprofitable and held up entirely by investment. For example, OpenAI has billions of dollars worth of debt and has never made any kind of profit.
We are well overdue for this bubble bursting and having another crash akin to the .com bubble
Hey, that’s fair, and I obviously didn’t get the play on meaning.
And as for the rest, I was flabbergasted when Amazon only had losses of $400 million one year and their stocks went up. Amazon went on to produce some value, and profits, and then screw over a number of businesses and employees with their market dominance in the online store business before completely abandoning any standards for the sake of profits. So the only thing I’m certain of in the stock market or industry values in general is that I’m woefully unqualified to determine what’s valuable or not.
*Manages the business, pretty sure that is their actual job, but…
I believe in socialism because the lions share of value should be returned to those who exerted the majority of effort, not the inverse, which is the stupid system we have now
Yeah. Co-ops of sufficient size have CEOs it’s just that the workers are the board
banger of a comment, you deserve some sort of compensation for this contribution
Fully agree with this but the problem is that restaurant owners pay their staff shit
Give proper wages to servers and the tipping can be history
MA had a ballot initiative that would have gradually brought the minimum tipped wage in line with the state’s minimum wage over the next 5 years or something.
Restaurants posted signs at their door to vote NO and that 90 percent of tipped workers opposed the bill.
A bartender I know told me that I should vote no because if it passed then restaurants would have to reduce headcount and servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
So it seems like the restaurants just threatened people with losing their jobs and so they voted NO and convinced others to do the same.
The measure didn’t pass.
I waited tables for years. (I was good at it, and even helped train everyone at a new restaurant.) Hourly pay would have definitely lowered my wage, but it’s still better than tipping. It’d be cool to get hourly wage, or even commission, so that your pay isn’t based on people’s whims.
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
(Note: I use the general “you” a lot. You’re just repeating what someone else said, I assume you don’t have any wait staff working for you personally.) You can fire people for being bad at their jobs. Why do you have bad staff working for you, tips or no? How about: Unattractive people will get paid just as well as traditionally attractive people. Minorities will get paid just as well as whites. Your salary doesn’t hinge on whether you can sneak extra stuff to your tables without your boss finding out or putting up with sexual harassment. Salary means that my paycheck comes from the restaurant and I don’t have to try to balance the interests of the people paying me against the restaurant.
Yeah all of that is what is known in the business as propaganda. The more money you have the more propaganda you can put out and restaurant businesses have a lot of spare money because they don’t pay their workers shit.
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
Black servers would be paid as well as white servers, servers whose chefs fucked up would be paid as well as lucky servers, mice would chase cats and the world would turn inside out!
yes and if you think this comment is off base, question your privelage and motives because you are empirically incorrect!
This study examined the effects of server race, customer race, and their interaction on restaurant tips while statistically controlling for customers’ perceptions of service quality and other variables. The findings indicate that consumers of both races discriminated against Black service providers by tipping them less than White service providers. Journal of Applied Psychology 2008
Reminds me of when I worked at Wal-Mart and everyone was horrified at the idea of getting raises because it meant prices would go up…
No, it’s because their manager who manages the business(hypothetically) isn’t paying them.
Makes me glad I live in a state that got rid of the tipped minimun and just has one across the board minimum wage.
I’m so sad we voted against it. Legalizing magic mushrooms had more support than making tipped minimum wage the same as normal minimum wage.
Fellow mass-hole! Felt the same way, even our allegedly liberal Governor came out against both. I talked to servers and bartenders who thought they’d make a lot less money, or their restaurant would go out of business if it passed. Presumably because the owners told them so.
I also don’t tip
Because I don’t go to restaurants with servers
I vote with my wallet that the whole concept is stupid, I hate paying 20% for someone to be fake nice and move food 10 feet
This is the way. By going but not tipping you’re just fucking over the server, not the business. To hurt the business’ bottom line you have to not go. Or dine and dash, but that then fucks the server harder while also affecting the business.
That why they said they don’t go to restaurants with servers. Either go to a restaurant where you buy food at a counter and bus yourself, or go to a tipless resturant with servers. Obviously don’t just screw over the server.
Though, on a large scale, if everyone just stopped tipping all at once, nobody would be willing to work for server wages anymore, and restaurants would have to increase pay or get fucked. Too bad our economy is based on fighting for survival, and not the profit motive, because the reality is that it would just fuck people’s lives up really bad.
And I was agreeing, thus starting the comment with “that is the way,” which I’m assuming you missed.
And sure, and I’m assuming you mean more than $7.25, but there’d be a lot of missed rent and power bills along the way until they catch up.
What about dine and dash, while leaving a cash tip?
9/10 chance that goes to cover part of your bill and the waiter gets fucked, but if you could guarantee they pocket it that’d work.
Hmm, maybe slip it to them when asking for the bill?
That’ll get them fired for looking like they conspired with you
Sure, that might work, or give it to them up front (protip btw, you want GREAT service? Frontload that tip, your server will break the law for you if you do that lol).
There’s a good chance the restaurant will take it all since they were “owed”.
It’s not exactly legal, but a lot of places will charge the server for a done and dash.
Hmm, what about fake checks? Surely there’s an angle here where the server isn’t punished, I don’t go to jail, and the restaurant takes a hit.
They should be replaced with automated mechanical food shuttles. I would tip those.
Why would you tip those?
How else do you plan to knock them over?
he tips his fedora
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How would you know that, they didn’t say what their income is. They said they were voting with their wallet, not that they couldn’t afford to do it.
I’d pay people to fuck off and not talk to me.
I see “personal service” as an annoyance.
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Not me who goes around assuming everybody’s poor, mate.
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price. the system is designed to screw us over.
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price.
Nah, that’s just in America, because Americans are dumb. Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic and why would we do that.
(if Americans aren’t dumb, why did they vote for Trump twice?)
(I finally found an upside to the Trump presidency!)
Almost 70 million people voted against him, myself included. We’re not a monolith. Also, only 11 states tax groceries.
Americans are dumb af. Source: am American
Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic
Idk where “here” is, but I’ve seen plenty of foreign countries’s restaurants adopting tipping, particularly at higher end establishments, as business owners realize they can just ask for extra and get it.
American culture is still seen as something to emulate in many parts of the world. Hopefully less so after the next four years. We’ve had the same stupid tipping culture emerge here as well - seems like a sign that taxes aren’t high enough at the top end.
American culture is still seen as something to emulate in many parts of the world. Hopefully less so after the next four years.
We used to export our culture to our satraps in Mexico and Germany and Japan and Korea. But now we tend to import more than we export.
I don’t see this as cultural though. It’s just a money thing. People ask because they know their customers will say yes. That’s all there is to if
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Australians don’t tip, and Canadians are just Americans with a French accent.
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It pits the well being of the customer against the well being of the server. It’s a pretty evil system. Pay everyone a living wage. Everybody deserves to live.
To be fair, no products sold (that I’m aware of) include tax on the sticker price, and here in TX groceries (unprepared food) are not subject to state sales tax.
Exactly.
The reason, from my understanding, is that taxes on products can vary from region to region, so it’s impractical to expect the store to have the price listed with the sales tax included, especially on advertisements. The sales tax in my state can vary by 1% or so between cities/counties, and advertisements are frequently at the state level, if not national level. My next door city has a 0.10% lower sales tax rate vs my city, and the resort area in the county has 1.5% higher sales tax than the rest of the county.
Food is taxed at a different rate, and the tax is split about 50/50 between state and local. Our state has been discussing ending the tax on food, but that would only end the state portion (1.75%), so the local tax (1.25% pretty much everywhere) would remain.
AFAIK, Europe includes it because it’s imposed at the government level (I think EU?), not the local level.
I still think it’s dumb, and it should at least be on the price stickers in the store so I can have a chance at estimating the final bill before I get to the register.
I don’t tip as well. But I live in a civilised country where everyone gets at least a tolerable minimum wage. No one is paying me extra money just for doing my job. So I won’t either. If they want more, they need to talk to their employer. It’s not my responsibility.
Would I live in the United States of Idiots though, where a severe lack of ethical economic behaviour is observable, I indeed would tip the waiters, as that’s sadly their financial lifeline.
I’d like to add that in the US people rarely think of it as extra either. In most places in the US we also don’t include taxes on the menu listed prices, but you know they will be on the final bill going in. The semantics of whether there should be tipping or not is hardly the line people should be arguing. What should be argued when discussing tipping is management abuses around tipping (like paying out others, stealing tips, or forced tip sharing), mandated minimum tipping, what items should be tipped and how much.
There is a ton of room to debate tipping culture in the US, but complaining about doing so isn’t the right place.
-Anon comes from cuntry half the size of average American state.
-Anon fails to realize the ezy button ruling a nation of 3rd cousins.
Totally. Everyone being different is the reason we’re okay with unnecessary poverty in this country.
I believe I’m a somewhat generous tipper.
Just today I rounded up a 23 up to 25. Euros that is. And I’m in Finland.
This is considered a generous tip, most don’t tip at all.
When I drove a taxi basically if I had a shift on Christmas eve, then I’d get tips. Otherwise it was like at most 3-5% of riders who gave tips. And this was back in oughts, when people actually used cash. (I literally never had someone tip me on a card when driving a taxi.)
They missed a step. "Waiter is paid below the already sad minimum wage because tips are somehow factored into their paycheck. "
Also don’t forget the folks working in the back of the house. Tip if you’re able, despite our shitty system.
Some parts of the US, not all
I’m sorry, but is “tipping out” no longer a thing, where the servers are expected to give a percentage of the tips to the hosts, bussers, food runners, kitchen staff, and anyone else who supported them that night?
I’ve never worked in the service industry, so that might still be a thing, but even if it is, that shouldn’t have to exist.
Then, are tips included in the waiters taxable income, or is it more like extra money not contributing to the common thnijgs ? (genuine auestion)
Here in Europe, waiters actually get a living wage, and still we’re expected to tip??? Like yo fuck that! I never go to regular restaurants unless it’s with a work colleague that refuses to go to the canteen. Oh my sweet canteen, so cheap yet plentiful, satisfying my stomach, mind and wallet, a true blessing.
As a European. What are you talking about? That’s certainly not the case in my part of Europe. And we don’t even have a minimum wage. (Officially)
Really? Holy shit… I’m in Czechia. And we have both living wages for waiters (it’s been driving our restaurant prices unusually high lately) and a minimum wage. Altho the minimum wage is quite low. Roughly 650€ of full-time when converted. Thankfully I haven’t seen jobs listed that low, I only know it because I managed to negotiate a payed internship and that’s what they gave me before my raise.
Oh don’t get me wrong. We got living wages for all full time jobs. Including waiters. We just don’t have a minimum wage (officially). It’s sorted out by the unions.
Reminds me of that episode of Scrubs, where Dr Cox was going around with a tip jar, because if a guy pouring coffee gets a tip, he should get one from the people whose lives he saved.
“Why tip someone for a job I’m capable of doing myself? I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi, I can and do cut my own hair. I did, however, tip my urologist. Because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.” -Dwight Schrute, “The Office”
Waiter deals with the general public. They deserve it
I mean, they deserve to make a liveable wage regardless of whether someone tips.
Their (livable) wage is supposed to be payed by their employer. The customer is not their employer.
It’s a tax thing. If tips aren’t part of the food price, they’re not part of revenue and not taxable. If they are, assuming same compensation as tips would generate, taxes would be higher.
I say put that on the food price. It’s a few cents to the dollar difference. Plus, variations in revenue shouldn’t be a thing an employee should worry about. And obviously it would do away with the whole bartering at the checkout.
I always leave a tip, but asking ME to pay more for someone ELSE’s rudeness is insane.
I work with multi million dollar companies in an office. Companies are people.
Why no tip? I do job
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I’d rather eat a frozen pizza and drink beer in the basement for 1/6th the price.
Except the food cost is only a small part of what we are paying for at a restaurant. What we are paying for is the worker’s time and skills. We could, mostly, eat the same ingredients at home for much cheaper.
A lot of the other costs are small and make profit in scale.
In this case wouldn’t the cooks time and skills be more important? Almost anyone can carry a plate but it takes a more diverse set of skills to cook various meals in timely manner while trying to prepare another 10 orders as well.
Not to say the server isn’t important as well but tbh, I’d rather have shitty service and great tasting food than have amazing service and terrible food. Ideally great food and great service, that will defintely get me back.
You undervalue good service. Good service, like good cooks, keep people with allergies from dying. Who exactly do you think passes on the allergy information? In a more general manner, good service makes sure that your order is presented the the kitchen staff correctly and matches expectations when they say it’s ready. It’s not just about whether or not they have a pleasant demeanor.
I could get the best service I’ve ever had, if the food tastes bad, makes me sick, or is undercooked I won’t be returning.
I could have rude service, have to send my order back for being wrong, and maybe even wait a while, if that food is delicious I’ll be coming back.
It takes a whole team to run a restaurant but if the food sucks or is unsafe no amount of good service will make up for that.
hey the waiter doesnt carry the food, the runner does that
the waiter asks me how im doing every 5 minutes and upsells me drinks and excess food. now that is special
Cooks wages are integrated into the price of the food, and the waiter’s are not. But some times cooks are tipped out too.
Sounds like a broken system where workers are being exploited. The operating costs of everything should be pirced into the food. Customer’s shouldn’t be expected to subsidize wages.
And you don’t have to subsidize them. Just don’t give those restaurants your patronage. The owners are the problem, right? Don’t support them!
