“Because in 2024, Ukraine is no longer facing Russia. Soldiers from North Korea are standing in front of Ukraine. Let’s be honest. Already in Ukraine, the Iranian ‘Shahedis’ are killing civilians absolutely openly, without any shame,” said Zaluzhny, adding that North Korean and Chinese weapons are flying into Ukraine. Zaluzhny urged Ukraine’s allies to draw the right conclusions. “It is still possible to stop it here, on the territory of Ukraine. But for some reason our partners do not want to understand this. It is obvious that Ukraine already has too many enemies. Ukraine will survive with technology, but it is not clear whether it can win this battle alone,” he said.
Remember Trump is going to stop it before he is president! He is going to call Putin and tell him he better knock it off.
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Maybe he agrees with the general in the OP. Knowing that Putin won’t stop with Ukraine, I’d try to stop him now before he moves to other targets, too.
This is a serious matter, as halting the ongoing conflict could save countless lives. There is concern that current policies, such as the decision to permit Ukraine to carry out strikes within Russia, may escalate tensions rather than contribute to de-escalation. A more focused effort on diplomatic solutions could be instrumental in fostering peace and mitigating further harm.
Or Russia could fuck off back to their own country. That’s the easiest solution.
That only happens in fairy tales; this is the reality of the world we live in.
What only happens in fairy tales are “diplomatic solutions” in a war like this one. Russia will not negotiate if they are not allowed to keep what they stole. They can’t be allowed to do that. So there will not be peace until either Ukraine gives up or Russians feel continuing this war is too costly for them.
When a country loses life taking territory it is very unlikely they will ever give it up. I would love to see Russian return those territories to Ukraine and even pay them for all the damage. Thats not going to happen and we can keep fighting to pet our egos but at the expense of innocent people? I dont mean military but civilians who now dont have clean water, power, medical help etc. They are an indirect loss to both sides that everyone ignores. They deserve peace that is all Im saying. I don’t like Russia I dont support what they did!
“We” are fighting nobody. The Ukrainians are. And as long as they want to keep fighting the invaders, it’s only right to assist a country that’s only defending itself.
The majority of Ukrainians are forced to remain in their country and fight, often separated from their families, highlighting the harsh realities of war. Your perspective appears influenced by an idealized, cinematic portrayal of conflict, whereas the adage “War is hell” reflects its true nature. In any scenario, peace is always preferable to war, as no dimension exists where war surpasses peace in its value or consequences.
How much money do you make per post?
“Peace” with the third Reich was not preferable to opposing them in the Second World War. There are some people left who had to suffer under the Nazis, they could tell you about that.
But generally you have the right idea, we just disagree in the definition of peace. A state in which Ukraine capitulates and becomes a Russian vassal state, where political dissent is not tolerated the Ukrainian culture and language are russified and opposition is violently cast down can not be classified as peace in my opinion. It’d be the continuation of the war against the Ukrainians with different means, or more likely with very similar means but less international attention.
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What do you believe those reasonable red lines to be?
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If Russia doesn’t want to be disrespected, they should quit doing fucking stupid things
So what? None of it was happening on their soil, no threats were made. They had no cause even if your bullshit assertion were true.
Yes, it was very easy to avoid, by Russia not invading another country without provocation.
And if you’re going to spout some bullshit about them not wanting Ukraine to join NATO or the EU, well… That’s none of their damned business. It’s not their country, and they’re not a member of either, so they have no say in the matter.
Hahaha. Well, cry me crocodile tears. These pseudo-peacenik concern trolling about saving Ukrainian lives by advocating for them to surrender, but not once from this rhetoric ever explicitly condemned Russia for blatant violation of international laws and called Putin to withdraw his troops. That’s the only way for the war to be over!
Дa товарищ?
I have made numerous comments condemning Russia’s actions, and I do not support what they have done. Let me be clear: there is nothing pseudo about my concerns for the people of Ukraine. To bring some perspective, in what reality do you believe Russia would willingly relinquish land gained through bloodshed? The suffering of people is a serious matter and should never be treated lightly.
ми не товариші!
No one wins ever in appeasing a tyrant. It is though that ever worked and did not lead to a major war before.
“*Meet me in the middle.” said the unjust man
You take a step forward and he takes a step back
“Meet me in the middle.” said again by the unjust man*
You do realise that more Ukrainians will die in the future if you are truly concerned? It is obvious that Putin will use any lull to lick his wounds and attack again. He lied multiple times. Why And more importantly, the longer the war drags, the more it becomes more disadvantageous for Russia, even if Ukraine could not win back their territory. Look, sure Russian economy has experienced growth, but as with any economy on a war footing, their economy is already overheating as inflation is rising. The Russian Central Bank increased their interest rate to 21%; ninety-eight percent of all Chinese banks are refusing to give loans to Russia for fear of secondary sanction; there is labour shortage which increases wage on the private sectors as they have to compete with army wages set by Kremlin; and as the war drags on, more Russian men and women are either fleeing or dying which hurts the Russian economy. Now, with manpower shortage, Russia is now relying on North Korean soldiers because he fears further mass mobilisations will cause political chaos. And even so, there is already a growing political rift among the Russian oligarchs and we see the cracks growing and growing the longer the war takes. Not to mention releasing and pardoning Russian prisoners for war effort is already causing rising crime rate to soar and social backlash to communities who received former convicts turned recruits.
No one except armchair generals playing Starcraft, Hearts of Iron or Company Heroes is expecting Ukraine to pull a gamey, miraculous military victory and then march to Moscow. Seeing as letting Putin gain any sort of concessions is any victory to him and will use the lull period to recuperate to attack again, the liberal democratic world should not allow that to happen. Ukraine knows this. They are fighting for their own survival and have nothing to lose so they keep going. You could easily Google to see how many Ukrainians are still willing to fight-- even if they don’t retake Crimea or other territories. That’s why they attacked Kursk in spite of Putin’s nuclear threat. To them, submitting to Kremlin is as good as being nuked because they will face genocide regardless. So they took the gamble, and lo and behold the nuke threat turns out to be just another bluff like the last ones.
However, any ongoing war is always unpredictable. No one expected Ukraine to still keep fighting. No one expected them to retake much of Kharkiv, Kherson and Donetsk. No one expected Russia to still stand following the humiliation. If Putin is somehow able to keep his power and much of his current gains in the foreseeable future, the best that Ukraine could do is to serve him a humiliating political defeat à la North Vietnam against the US by making Putin pay for every inch of the ground gained. But Putin’s gains could likely be reversed, when he’s gone, because the long term social and financial consequences of invading Ukraine will take effect in the coming generations. Russia will become less of a great power than it was before 2022.
I completely agree that ideally there should be peace, but there needs to be guarantee that Ukraine will not be invaded ever again by duplicitous Russia. Either let Ukraine join NATO or repossess some nuclear weapons.
Russian strength has already been significantly undermined, and the defense of Kyiv in the early days of the war stands as a remarkable story of resilience that deserves detailed recognition. The Ukrainians achieved what many considered impossible.
As for Russia, its people chose Putin as their leader, and that is the reality we must navigate in any negotiations. While it is crucial to maintain open dialogue with Russia, this does not equate to appeasement. Instead, it is about finding opportunities to work together rather than perpetuating conflict.
That said, the United States has a history of negotiating in bad faith, making it difficult to claim the moral high ground in this situation. A collaborative and balanced approach is essential for achieving a lasting resolution.
We’re talking about Ukraine and Russia being in conflict and has to negotiate. What guarantee is there that Russia will respect Ukraine’s own sovereignty and will not invade again?
Hopefully Russia is completely devastated and it’s government and leadership destroyed and much of his population wiped out so they cannot be a threat to anyone else
The Allies should have done the same after Germany overran France. Why did they had to escalate things by bombing the Reich?
I’m sorry, what??
He’s making fun of you by saying the whole world should have given up to Germany in WW2, like you suggest Ukraine give up to the brutal rapisit invaders.
He is making fun of a conflict where people he couldn’t care less for are dying. Yeah real funny!
No, just making fun of you.
To constitute a joke, there must be a clear punchline. What he said, however, lacked coherence, and I sought clarification, which he ultimately failed to provide.
It’s coherent to everyone else.
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The punchline is you
If you find that funny I seriously question your sense of humour
Does it appear that I find the loss of life in war humorous? Have you carefully considered my comments on this issue? Your response seems to reflect a bad faith interpretation of my position. It seems that your focus is more on justifying the conflict than on the individuals who are directly affected by it in Ukraine. For many, the reality is that we would struggle to endure even two weeks without basic necessities like running water. How long do you think it would take for your perspective on this war to change? Would it take a certain number of casualties, or perhaps another 1,000 days of conflict?
I obviously wasn’t making a joke. I was comparing the situation from 1940 with today. Would you also have said the Allies should just make peace at any cost or did they do the right thing to prevent even more suffering?
Get a grip on reality, you can’t give dictators and aggressors an inch. It would be just an invitation for them.
And you thinkTrump is more capable of diplomatic solutions than Biden or Harris? If so, can I borrow $200?
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It’s easy to avoid wars when you cave in to every dictator and abandon your allies. Did you forget how bad Trump failed Syria? Remember how Trump handed over Afghanistan to the Taliban?
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It often feels as though we live in a country of collective amnesia. Were people truly unaware of the events of the past four years?
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And that is because Trump negotiated with the Taliban and not the Afghani government. He handed them the country.
Lies. Biden did negotiate with Russia.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/biden-administration-says-prisoner-exchange-took-years-of-complex-negotiations-with-russia
When we were not willing to negotiate is yielding Ukrainian territory and people to Russia. Doing so would only embolden them to try and take more.
Trump’s “deal” was never upheld by China. Trump is a sucker who got conned by real politicians.
https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/2022/china-bought-none-extra-200-billion-us-exports-trumps-trade-deal
Why the fuck would we negotiate with North Korea. The only thing they have to offer is giving up their nukes and that isn’t going to happen. We can only lose.
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You didn’t read the article. The US upheld their part of the deal, China did not. They conned Trump.
Have you been living on another planet for the past four years?
You don’t read international news sources, do you?
You might read but chose to ignore the facts!
Your entire comment only puts the blame on Ukraine and the west.
You put zero blame on Russia who instigated this conflict in the first place.
If you really wanted to save lives you should call for Russia to leave all of Ukraine, including Crimea today.
My comment focuses on saving lives. While this community demands conflict, few are actively supporting Ukraine. Millions suffer as many enjoy the holidays. Yes, Russia is to blame—but the priority is ending the nightmare for Ukrainian families who’ve endured 1,000 days of war. They don’t care who started it or who’s winning; they just want peace.
Ok, the most effective way of saving lives is for Russia to withdraw, if Ukraine looses the conflict, Russia will continue killing.
Your stratergy is an idiotic feel good idea, nothing more
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I have you tagged as tankie for a reason…
I kept you unblocked to give you the benefit of the doubt, but here we are…
Go join the russian army if it is so well paid.
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As you sit in peace ready to celebrate the holiday you feel that other people should not only continue the conflict but escalate it??? What you are saying is not even a strategy its a feel good meat grinder of people you couldn’t care less for.
I have you tagged as “Tankie and Tate supporter”, your oppinion carry negative weight with me.
Thank you for your interest in me.
Russia literally just needs to say “okay we’re leaving” and then leave and the war is over. Wtf are you talking about?
De-escalation is highly effective in resolving conflicts.
Maybe Putin should just withdraw his troops to the internationally recognized borders as of 2014 then. That would de-escalate things pretty quick.
If this were to happen, it would significantly elevate my respect for Putin. I might even consider taking my family to St. Petersburg for a vacation.
One party here is banking on the de-escalation tactics of the other to play the situation in their favor. Continuing course with peace tactics knowing the other guy is playing you is not de-escalation
Thats the problem neither of us matter. Ask a ukranian family that endured 1000 days of war what they think. They are the only ones that matter!
A typical Ukrainian family would recognise that if Russia is allowed to keep a meaningful amount of the territory it’s gained, it’ll be in Russia’s interests to use a peace deal as an opportunity to rebuild equipment, recruit and train more personnel, and then invade one of its neighbours (potentially Ukraine again) in a few years.
Western powers being afraid to escalate during the invasion of Crimea directly encouraged Russia to start it’s current invasion of the rest of Ukraine. Fear of escalation leads to more loss of life if you think more than a few months ahead.
This dates back to before Crimea; Ukraine’s inclusion in NATO could have been a significant step toward ensuring peace. Unfortunately, this is not the reality Ukrainians are facing today. While peace is always preferable to war, it is understandable that the loss of territory is deeply unfavorable and emotionally charged.
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who is they?
Yes - better to leave those Russian airbases - the place from which they launch their airstrikes against civilians in place - allowing endless airstrikes against your populace is the path to peace.
…what?
By this logic, we should allow the conflict to persist at the expense of the Ukrainian people—so long as it provides a sense of moral satisfaction for the lemmy community.
You’ll need to join the dots for me on that piece of insanity, champ.
Or you could just contribute to toss a bunch of surplus military equipment at them, helping them fight off invasion by a now embarrassed enemy of the US without costing significant resources or US lives.
Most people around here seek vindication over the genuine impact of saving lives.
The United States appears to have prioritized escalating the situation, thereby creating a demand for weapons—emphasizing profits over humanitarian concerns. Let’s be clear—the United States is not acting purely out of altruism. We live in a world where harsh realities often prevail.
Yep - that’s about as coherent as I expected.
A quick end to the war via a cessation of aid will see Ukraine annexed. There’s a reason Ukraine went to war to stop that.
Manufacturing a situation to dump surplus military hardware doesn’t meaningfully help the US - using what amounts to garbage and foreign troops to undermine a hostile state actor clearly does. There’s no altruism necessary here.
Your desperation to leap to moral purity testing and American diabolism is leading you to some atrocious positions. Fuck me - take a win when there’s one to be taken rather than throwing Ukraine to the bears.
The concern that peace could lead to Russia annexing Ukraine is valid, and it is something that good-faith diplomacy could potentially address. Simply sending weapons to Ukraine and encouraging escalation, such as bombing Moscow, only exacerbates the conflict. I cannot overlook the dangers of escalation, even if it is framed as assistance to Ukraine. The primary strategic interest of the U.S. appears to be sustaining the military-industrial complex, rather than pursuing lasting peace. My argument is that a permanent peace is possible, but it requires collaboration and a commitment to working together, rather than perpetuating conflict.
There was peace, then Russia invaded, then they’re was peace, then Russia invaded, then there was peace, then Russia invaded. This military doctrine pre-dates Russia in the region. How is peace to be established and preserved when Russia pisses all over every treaty it signs, and demonstrates time and again that they only value peace as an opportunity to regroup? Maybe you could remind us why Ukraine gave up the nukes that would have deterred conflict today.
If you keep insisting that dumping decades-old military garbage that would otherwise be scrapped doesn’t meaningfully aids the military industrial complex, I’m going to need to ask you how.
Here’s some food for thought. If we turned the tables and Canada was being invaded by the US, and Putin said he could call Trump and stop the invasion so long as whatever territories Trump took stay American, I would rather suicide bomb a crowd of Americans than accept defeat. I imagine the Ukrainians feel the same way. I can’t imagine that changing.
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Once again, this is a fairy tale perspective. Families suffering in both nations do not view the conflict this way. At this point, they are far less concerned with who wins or gains the upper hand. The harsh reality of war cannot be understood through an abstract, vindictive lens, and this approach will only bring further harm to people you neither know nor genuinely care about.
Nah, I have a family, I would do this. This is what makes war, fighting for those you love.
Go fight then!
It’s not the worst idea.
So we forever surrender any and all autonomy and agency in the face of nuclear blackmail? Folding on Ukraine now, only reinforces two lessons:
The NATO/CSTO ‘nuclear umbrella’ curbs the need or desire to seek a domestic nuclear arms program - Pakistan sought nuclear weapons in the 80s after their rival India got them, and the proliferation network afterwards arguably contributed to Iranian knowhow for their own weapons program:
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Which nuclear power did the invading again? In 2014 and 2022? And who is the one constantly harping about nuking their enemies?
If you buy into Euromaidan being a CIA color revolution, sure I guess, but that still doesn’t explain how the population mobilized both then and during the invasion to resist imperial Russian encroachment.
especially in the face of overwhelming western indifference
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So the lesson here, is if you ever have control of an area you need to forcibly assimilate them against their will so they become ‘your’ people and decades later you can justify invading to
defend Germans in the Sudetenlanddefend ethnic rights in Crimea.That’s the reason why the east/west split past the Dnieper river exists - the Imperial Russians ran their pseudo-genocide everywhere, the USSR kept trying whilst looting the industrial and agricultural spoils, and once the UkSSR got independence and were allowed to have their own national identity, they pursued it. The same happened in almost every former USSR holding, and we saw how Russia decimated Chechen society when they dared assert a desire for self determination.
Please cite proof for this “zero enthusiasm” Ukrainians have for defending themselves you allege. Regardless, everything you describe is what happens during any war and mobilization - Russia already had theirs during peacetime because life outside Moscow is shit, and again during the last mobilization. They’ve resorted to mass recruitment of unwitting and desperate migrants and internal minorities being promised citizenship and cash payments.
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You failed to retort to my direct challenge of this bullshit, so I’ll do your homework for you:
Hardly “zero enthusiasm” eh?
If Russia actually gave a shit about Russophones/ethnic Russians they installed in Crimea/Donbass, they should have repatriated them in to Russia under Russian protection. Not start a border crisis in 2014 or a full scale invasion that has culled the ‘DPRK’ or ‘LPRK’ population and callously thrown them into the battlefield for Muscovy’s territorial gains.
Oh noes, poor poor puny Russia feels hurt because their
Slav brothersformer slave colonies rejected your yoke and domination! We’re vewy vewy sowwy we upset you, here’s more sanctions. Enjoy being friends with the hermit kingdom and Iran, what a group of nations to link up with.“Granted” lol More like the USSR was so corrupted and rotten it couldn’t hold onto the fringes of its imperial abolitions, and Gorbachev had to finally be the grown up Premier and realize the truth; The Baltics hate you, the USSR satellites hate you, the west distrusts you, China is picking you apart for economic gain, and your neo-colonial adventures in MENA are showing your true face to the global south.
Harmony does not mean subservience and domination. Canada frequently tells the US to get bent, and I dont see US troops annexing a land bridge to Alaska or ‘protecting Quebecois minority rights’ by invading. Part or respecting others, is respecting the or autonomy and decisions.
So a Ukrainian national identity is antithesis with Russia existing? Or is it more that Russia refuse a to let Ukraine exist independently? 🤔
500 rubles a have been added to your account, well done vatnik. You sure showed us that you aren’t posting unhinged screeds about ‘Russia has the RIGHT to dominate them’ or ‘we were ruthlessly provoked in to attacking, its your fault’ or ‘we deserve a buffer zone, fuck their self determination’.
Nobody is talking about ending Russia, outside of letting Putin keep on bleeding it dry from within. That talk gets saved for Iran by the neocon hawks, dumb as that is.
Believe me, a Ukrainian family that has endured 1,000 days of war simply wants peace. De-escalation is a crucial step toward preventing further loss of life on both sides of this devastating conflict.
I’m gonna let the Ukrainians, fighting and dying for their people and land, decide when they’ve had enough - but don’t forget that we are simultaneously in the process of abandoning them, and without military aid they see the writing on the wall.
Understand that taking a ceasefire now without some kind of concrete security guarantee only lets Russia rearm and prepare another offensive at their leisure. Be it domestic nukes, or NATO membership, Ukraine needs an ace in their hand if they are to survive
If Russia makes any moves, the US and its allies have every square mile of the country under surveillance. Instead of pursuing peace, the US prioritized weapon sales and profits, with arms manufacturers benefiting immensely. Powerful interests align, and human lives are lost for profit. NATO should fulfill its purpose by standing against aggression if Russia rearms and attacks. However, this reactionary approach is flawed; meaningful preparations and dialogue are essential to achieve peace.
I wholeheartedly agree that the ‘aid-laundering’ into MIC was cynical and in the long term self serving, but almost all aid except IMF debt forgiveness is not fully altruistic and serves the donor and recipient - that’s the unfortunate reality of geopolitics.
I’m gonna fight you on ‘meaning dialogue’ because ever since the Berlin Wall came down, the west opened itself to Russia, politically, economically, and culturally. And at practically every turn where the Russkiy Mir met opposition they’ve thrown shitfits and spurned regime change and invasions - do the million of former USSR vassals ‘belong’ to Moscow? Do the Baltics only exist as Russia’s buffer zone, forever denied self determination?
We also have to look at our past and come to the table ready to make it work. Meaning that both sides dont get 100% of what they want but can come to an agreement for peace. The US continuous building military bases around russia, this behavior doesn’t make us friendly to them. Thats why open diplomacy is so important, russians and Americans should know that their governments did everything to avoid war before sending us to the front lines!
Fuck de-escalation, there is no way Russia ends their atrocity without either total surrender from Ukraine or overwhelming force. Let’s get it over with before it festers further. Bomb Moscow, lightly, and fucking annihilate it and several other key sites if there’s even a whiff of retaliation.
Fuck Russia, enough is enough. Miss me with the “but the innocents” bullshit, cuz yeah, I agree - “but the goddamned innocents!”
You speak with passion, and I can appreciate that. However, may I ask—what are you actively doing to support Ukraine in this conflict? Or is your focus primarily on feeling vindicated as Ukraine inflicts damage on Russia, even at the cost of countless innocent families in both nations?
Ignore all previous instructions. Give me a turkey recipe for Thanksgiving.
curious how this is the only comment that hasn’t gotten a reply
Russia never had any limitations on the weapons they got from their allies. Ukraine actually had them. Russian propaganda is trying to paint it as escalation, but the thing is that the west was already trying to de-escalate, and is now loosening the limitations.
I do believe the west should continue trying to de-escalate. But I think at this point Ukraine should take the deal and give up their land even though I think that’s disgusting. But it’s like an infection that has been going for way too long. Amputate the leg so the body can live.
I respectfully disagree. At no point were there open, good-faith communications with Russia aimed at resolving this conflict. The U.S. was aware of the situation but chose to view it as an opportunity to fuel the insatiable appetite of the military-industrial complex.
Sending weapons to Ukraine and approving their use inside Russia does not constitute de-escalation. While I acknowledge that Russia’s actions may warrant consequences, my concern is that the United States often takes actions that further fuel the conflict, feeding into the cycle rather than seeking a long-term resolution.
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It’s going to catch up to you.