NB: Initially I was asking imperial core comrades due to some potential common experiences that I was looking for but it was suggested that I widen the scope and I agree.
Coming from England where 90% of our culture is consumerism or lifted from America (so more consumerism) I have no affinity for what “makes me english”.
The only real culture or tradition in the England is bourgeois propaganda/bread and circuses nonsense like the opening of parliament or the queen’s platty joobs or bank holidays (lol).
As the proletariat/lumpen there is no culture outside of football and consumerism.
So to that end, what exactly makes one English? Chauvinism and imperialism? Two things that only really benefit the aristocracy.
We aren’t even “english”. We are mostly Anglo saxon but most of us have parts gaelic, celtic, norse, germanic etc history. We aren’t Anglo saxons really, we are just mongrels with white skin and no culture so I don’t get what the fucking nationalists are so proud of. Lol our fucking royal family is less Anglo than we are!!
I have no cultural ties to England, this country has only hurt me and millions of others. We have no beautiful cultural events, music, art etc. Its just homogenised capitalist culture shared with most of the imperial core. The same can be found in every country apart from Brit pop. Get in what a claim to fame.
I speak from an English perspective as scotland, Ireland and Wales DO have culture. But in England we’ve lost any we might have had. I even have Irish mostly and some Welsh and Scottish in me but I’ve never gotten to embrace or experience those cultures, it’s stomped out of you and erased through engloid chauvinism growing up.
As a country we’ve became a shell, white people existing to exist, no love or respect for our history because we have none. Its just rich people fighting other rich.
People might say knights and Kings etc but how is that my history? It’s the history of the aristocracy battling for their wants. As a “serf” we’ve just existed. They try to teach us English history in school and its just slaughter and exploitation. There’s nothing good. It’s all just murder and death and it’s not “we need to be better than our history”, it’s “this history allowed us to be better than everyone else” and that makes me sick.
So with this in mind, why would I care if another country took over? Say china came and ripped England from the royals grip, why would I worry provided I trusted them to look after the citizens better than our own government?
My allegiance isn’t to my country or some nostalgic memory of history, its to human beings. To the workers of this world and to that end what do I care of national identity and my non existent culture?
It’s struck me as a thought, does this exemplify why leftist or more accurately communist thought is such a threat to governments. Its not constrained by national pride or identity so those mechanisms and means of control fail right?
The only reason I see anyone for having any loyalty to England is because we are trapped here, and as traumatised workers without an escape we are doomed to just scrape some existence out of this wretched nation, living in fear that if we don’t swear loyalty to our flag we will die in hunger and pain.
I dunno I’m just sundowning I guess. Depressed and chatting shit.
Edit: I think I just need a hug lol 🤣
Self-exiled from the states and having a hard time coming up with something good:
I still like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and peanut butter on apples but I only end up eating them when I can’t afford something else which is pretty often as of late. I don’t know the history of those flavor combinations but it was probably appropriated like everything else.
Am also a non-BIPOC jazz musician, which I guess is a bit appropriative but it has a special spot in my heart and mind and is one of very few things which brings me momentary contentment.
For the rest, fuck the states it’s a shithole country filled with mostly shitty people. China and Russia invading would be doing the world a favor at this point.
Where did you move to?
And man IMO if you love something you love something, there’s lines to be crossed for sure but you’re not inherently being shitty by being a jazz musician, there’s no need to defend that. I’m not black nor indigenous and I rap so I’m biased but idk I’m part arab and I’m fine with a white person wearing a khaffiyeh as long as they’re based. Not to completely derail I’m sure this could be its own whole ass discussion thread.
I moved to Netherlands. Obviously still part of the imperial core but it was the best I could do given my circumstances. Now I’m too broke to move anywhere else. But poverty in NL is functionally less soul-suckingingly difficult than poverty in US so that’s something.
I never know when I’m going to get called out for appropriation when I’m just trying to live my life and not hate it, so thanks for the backup! Props for rapping too, it’s one thing to write rhymes and then a whole other thing to spit them out with style. Very cool!
So did you move? You might be the first American I’ve ever met to have moved away!
Jazz is so cool though!! I don’t think it’s appropriative if you recognise its routes and who invented it but conversely there’s a lot of white musicians who are blind to its history.
Yeah I moved 10ish years ago to Netherlands. It’s been crazy but overall worth it seeing what happened in the states after I left. To all the people I knew who told me I was being crazy for moving, the few that I still talk to are starting to finally get it. Unfortunately they’re still trapped in the U.S. socio-political climate so bringing up Marx or even just his ideas is way over their head.
Agreed there’s a lot of white musicians that just ‘play jazz’ without really diving into its history, the history of some of the great players and innovators, or trying to cultivate the mood of jazz. In this case, NL is definitely worse than in the states. Whole bunch of white boomer pensioners playing the squarest jazz I’ve ever heard. Thankfully there are some exceptions but they’re harder to find.
Awwhw wow that must have being a hell of a transition. You’re post Amerikkka now haha.
It’s sad isn’t it :/ I’ve being wanting to move with my partner for years now but it’s so expensive!! Our friends and family say similar things:
“why would you want to leave this is the best country in the world, you should be thankful, people drown trying to get here”
Despite voting to making it as hostile as possible to immigrants they see as lazy and or “not integrating”. Jokes.
I can imagine that tbf, while the states is… well the states, it has that exposure to the scene and history vs countries that just haven’t.
Yeah it was definitely a transition. If I hadn’t moved when I did, there’s no way I would be able to now. I imagine it would be harder once you’ve really settled down too. I had no partner, just left school, and was at a fork in the road with nothing waiting for me at home. Sort of a “this is probably my only shot to gtfo the states, here goes nothing”.
My family and friends said the same thing when I was getting ready to leave. It’s their fear talking, they can’t imagine why anyone would ever NOT love the U.S. because that’s all they’ve been fed. Except for that stupid line about “people hate America because they hate our freedom” LOL.
One thing you realize quickly is how few of your friends and family really care to keep in touch once you’re far away. But at least it leaves more space for meeting new “chosen family”. Once you’re out you start to realize that as bad as you thought the propaganda was in the states, it’s even worse after you left and many of the people in your new country believe it too and idolize the U.S. The struggle is worldwide comrade!
That must have taken so much courage so major respect.
I escaped my bio family to uni by just going to a different city so while it’s not the same I can appreciate what you mean about family not keeping in touch and having a found family.
Ngl I always assumed the propaganda was worse in the US than abroad but I guess now that I think about it, the culture does most of the heavy lifting at home but to convince other countries they have to really work to sell that lie.
Moving anywhere is traumatic in its own way isn’t it? At least it always has been for me. But when I look back I know it was a good choice. I hope you’ve felt like moving was worth it for you too.
I think the propaganda is worse outside the U.S. because it’s a big world to propagandize and so it takes more effort than keeping their own (U.S.) population deluded in their super slim Overton window. That being said, it’s been comparatively “easier” in my experience to reason with people in the EU about anti-U.S./anti-neoliberal ideas but you really have to walk them through it because they are constantly hearing the pro-U.S. lines in their own state media. Where as in the states if you tried to do this with an average person you’d be called names so quickly you’d never get a chance to explain anything.
Absolutely! If I’d stayed at home I’d never have being able to be myself or be happy so despite the massive anxiety it was definitely worth it!
Yeah fair, you do have to walk them through it. I can’t speak for others outside of the UK but here it feels very US adjacent.
Being from Dutch origin I really feel the jazz thing lmao. I have a very clear mental picture of said boomer pensioners in a jazz band.
Tjongejongejonge ;-)