- cross-posted to:
- videos@hexbear.net
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- videos@hexbear.net
- pcmasterrace@lemmy.world
Pretty damning review.
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This is a’ spicy meatball
Although good points were made, as I’ve been following this. I think its also suspicious GN is rather new with their ethics pages etc and it seems like it was a planned attack.
LTT does do corrections, but also GN alone has had 3+ in 2023 errors. Now account for the absolute size difference…
Why would it be suspicious? Thats just like writing a user manual based off of what you see users do.
Only because of how recently they have implemented the ethics and fails pages on their website and in the video they don’t really make it clear like “We realized how important it is and recently implemented a system to make our failures as public as possible a few months ago.”. Just looks bad and makes me think it was planned, maybe not and like I said good points were made by GN. Skimming over the size difference between LTT and GN and how GN still got 3+ errors listed? I haven’t done the numbers on the failure percentage but I don’t feel it would be horrible.
Even if true, and was a planned attack, that does not remove how objective the criticisms were.
Correct, as stated I agree with the good points made. But does make me question his character if his spent the last few months planning this. If it really mattered about the community being mislead it would’ve came out ASAP, not after his got his duck in a line putting together an ethics page, updating it with content for a couple months, skimming thru all content for errors and then BAM time for the kill.
Nobody will probably ever know weather that is the case, just imo I watch both pretty evenly and it’s like two parents fighting. Both imperfect and be hide closed doors just hoping the other backs down, otherwise the show must go on.
I don’t think the size difference works in the favour of lmg.
If gamers nexus puts out pretty much industry leading day one reviews out on every launch with 5-6 people and LMG with labs and 100+ employees can’t then there’s something wrong.
GN has a point LMG shits out videos without QC and it’s starting to bite them of late. The water block review is the perfect example of just being stupid. Why not just test the item with the right product and judge it for what it is as opposed to turning it into a joke review where no matter what the product is going to look bad.
The short circuit thing with the mouse is also a bit ridiculous.
But the charts are the main thing, I’ve noticed it myself over the years that lmg charts made no sense relative to gamers nexus or HUb or even jayz 2 cents which meant something was wrong with the testing.
And Linus/LTT will have excuses over excuses instead of sincerely apologizing and actually trying to get better.
Doesn’t matter for me, I’ve stopped watching them years ago. Their extremely clickbait titles make it hard to search for anything anyways.
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Well he’s not exactly known for taking warranted criticism well…
What the fuck are you doing, LTT? Go get the fucking prototype back and return it.
Billet labs has come out and said that LTT has suggested they could get the cooler back for them, and billet labs declined and said they would just take the reimbursement.
They said their reasoning for that include (they said more, but just a few brief reasons) the fact that they can’t know if it’s still in the condition required, and if not, how much time and money it would take to repair it
they don’t know if it would have all the various pieces still attached, once again, not knowing how much time or money it would cost to replace those
they’ve already begun work on recreating the prototype
they’ve confirmed it didn’t go to a competitor, so less worries about ip issues
Finally and the biggest thing to me that I was unaware of before reading their statement, they sent LTT a 3090ti to along with the block to test it, LTT then proceeded to lose it (which is why they used the wrong card in the video) and just recently found it, which meant LTT had not only their block but a 3090ti for 9 weeks so they didn’t know if LTT could get it back how quickly they would send it to Billet.
How the fuck do you managed to just casually lose a 3090ti and a companies proto-type cooler design that came with it… AND THEN AUCTION IT OFF AFTER HAVING TWO EMAIL EXCHANGES SAYING IT WILL BE RETURNED!!
Like, I’ve been through some managerial fuck ups before with getting shit mixed up or sent off incorrectly…but this is on a level I’m having a very hard time understanding just what the fuck went wrong, how it went wrong, and if they even have a single rule or policy in place to keep track of items.
Then there was all the other errors they mentioned in the vid, like basic facts and specs about a component… Like how do you manage to fuck that up as well? That is the type of shit you look up in 5 seconds on Google.
LMG looks like a clusterfuck that needs some serious intervention
This is what happens when you think the C-Suite is the most important part of the company but keep the (apparently) trash management between them and the actual people doing the work.
I think there was a video about them restructuring their company a few weeks ago. I think he wanted to employ a CEO, because the managment part was getting out of hand. Maybe that is why this shitshow happened?
They already have a CEO but it seems Linus has kept the team rushing into their usual schedule while trying to bandaid their processes. Now they’ve made a statement that they are going to stop production for a week and rethink their approach.
I know a week for a major Youtube channel putting that much content is a **huge ** cost but I doubt it’s enough time to seriously change much. Time will tell but I was already tired of half-finished antics. At least someone like DIY Perks decides to make a submarine PC to dump into his pond, he actually makes the whole thing to a satisfying conclusion and doesn’t seems to abandon the video because they rushed something and have to jump on their next rushed job.
I watched a couple of Linus videos over the years and recently subscribed. I had no idea how many videos they push out a week - that is something they should really adress. Rather make three or four good videos a week than the absolute crap content they partially put out just to get their schedule full.
After this whole thing now I unsubscribed again. You can absolutely fuck up a situation and be good in my book if you own up to it, but Linus response is childish at best and a disaster at worse.
Linus has always been childish. Can’t stand him.
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Ultimately this is probably a good thing. From what I’ve gathered of Linus he is a person that can recognize his mistakes, but only once you get past his stubbornness. His response saying they should’ve hit him up is kind of classic response. What could you have said really? Like GN is right that like almost every video has a pinned comment or on screen edit of a correction. And you know these companies are complaining. Yet it continues.
Having their audience put them to task will go a long way to making them recognize it is a bigger issue than individual videos. I’m really curious about the idea of Labs being able to actually test things publically in a way consumers haven’t been able to. (Give me more of transparency like digital foundry for games and Jerryrig everything for durability.) So they need to pull their shit together if they want to claim to be a data driven lab. Like accuracy is all that matters.
I think the ethical concerns section is overblown. LTT is almost harsh on their sponsors and I got a kick out of Linus starting the last video talking about Framework saying how he doesn’t actually use the Framework laptop as his daily driver at the time and complained about it.
The sponsor related aspects I feel they handle pretty well for the most part, they’re often critical of sponsors and I don’t get the feeling he’d straight up sell out. It feels like they’re putting out so much content across so many channels that they’re not able to keep up the accuracy / quality. That’s a fair point I think Steve raised and to see it fobbed off by Linus in his response is disappointing
It very much feels significantly more like incompetence than malice (not that I think any particular person at LMG is incompetent. The processes likely are however). Honestly LMG just probably grew way faster than any of their processes could scale.
Their production cycle seems to be more targeted at producing content, moreso than anything else, like integrity or correctness.
I’ve noted several errors myself, most of the ones I’ve seen are relatively minor, and mostly pedantic, but they’re inaccuracies nonetheless.
If LMG wants to move towards being more journalism and a reputable source of accurate information, which, from everything they’ve done recently (most notably the lab), they seem to want to be, then they need people to go and fact check everything, and scrutinize final products to ensure accurate information. Making sure that inaccuracies are caught and sent back to the beginning of the pipeline to be re-reviewed, and if necessary, re-shot.
They can’t keep doing things by the seat of their pants and hoping for the best.
My hats off to GN for bringing it to light, and hopefully some meaningful changes come from this.
Hey, remember that time when Linus promoted a kickstarter scam? https://youtu.be/VHjmlQdzpW4
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/VHjmlQdzpW4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Yeap. Turns out Linus is another piece of shit too. How sad.
All valid points. But regarding the measurements, neither LTT or GN testing methodology are realy scientific. Those are youtubers with limited understanding of experimental design and analysis. I have never seen them do simple significance tests or try to explain the variability in the data. But I havent watched all the videos so 乁( •_• )ㄏ
Idk why they don’t just run the test 3 times and average the result.
It would fix a lot of these issues… If you are testing a cooler, remove, clean CPU, reapply thermal compound and reseat cooler.
It’s really not that hard to make their testing, maybe not perfect, but a lot better
Idk why they don’t just run the test 3 times and average the result.
Hardware unboxed does this if I remember correctly
For the variability point, they do tests in as a controlled environment as they could, and do the tests until they get consistent data. But what do you mean by significance test and how can they do it?
I agree they’re not the gold standard but they’re the best we got in terms of independent third party testers, and I would assume they’re more than good enough for tech stuff.
I’m not really sure if you ever watched a GN video, but he throws facts at you at a rate which no one else i know does.
He knows his stuff and is always open to learn new things.
Anyone watching LTTs server videos hopes it is only for entertainment as following what they do other than for your home lab would be a disaster.
However they are building up the LAB and are selling it as serious detailed reviews… This would be a shift from their current content.
Flip side Gamers Nexus is hard core serious and I always have to skip through their videos as they put me to sleep.
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As someone who’s been running unRAID out of a tower and like 5 drives; it’s weird watching like four people who are definitely more tech savvy than me just bumble fuck their way through all this server stuff with enterprise level gear. Like I do more research for myself and I’m not jumping on video. Ultimately I like the videos, I enjoy seeing the approaches, but they try to come off like authority figures. Then they don’t even know how to properly parity swap and make unRAID look harder than it is.
This pretty similar to why I stopped watching their vids. I always thought they were a trusted authority, until they covered a product that I had some familiarity with. I wasn’t even an expert at it, I was just interested so I read some articles, visited some forums and subreddits about it for a week or two. Their video on it had a couple of mistakes and they omitted a couple of minor features, but were important to me. There was nothing egregious but it was pretty surprising to me that in this one thing, I knew more than them, despite not doing much research.
it’s weird watching like four people who are definitely more tech savvy than me just bumble fuck their way through all this server stuff with enterprise level gear.
As someone who is very technically savvy, let me assure you that these guys are clowns. They are tech entertainers, not experts. Give yourself some credit.
They have people knowing their stuff, it’s just Linus playing around and figuring out. Anthony with old hardware and Linux and Jake does know a thing or two about server stuff
it’s weird watching like four people who are definitely more tech savvy than me just bumble fuck their way through all this server stuff with enterprise level gear.
Exactly, bumble fuck is what every one of their server videos or home automation videos seems to be about.
They have zero consistency in platform or hardware and don’t seem to setup any monitoring as well.
Other than building gaming PCs I would not look to LTT for technical advice.
I just watch the videos where they do silly stuff… Cooling a server with a pool is something I would never be able to do, that’s the kind of shit I want to watch, them building their thousandth gaming PC is just meh.
Totally agree. Glad someone said this.
Gamers Nexus makes extremely detailed videos, but after 10 Minutes of non-stop fact firework my brain just starts to fade away
Either i’m not that into tech or it is my brains fault
ya I jump to the chapter then scrub to the graphs.
To be fair, GN provides excellent Chapter selection to encourage you to skip to whatever you want to know. You don’t have to watch the whole thing if you don’t want to. I’m more annoyed by them using those idiotic clickbait thumbnails. Complete no-go for me.
There’s an extension you can get that removes the clickbait thumbnails. I think this the right one. It really makes YT browsing so much better.
Yeah, but then I’d support the practice through my click. I’d rather block 90% of YT content.
I’ve started consciously avoiding clickbait looking thumbnails for a while. While this addon looks great on paper, I do prefer to support creators who don’t treat me like a kid in a candy store. That being said, I had no idea this addon existed, that’s pretty cool
Even with the chapters they yammer on in every section. They could say the same thing in half the time and their videos would STILL be long.
I would never follow what they do in server videos exactly, but I learned a ton from their server video backlog. Also find their server shenanigans very fun. Think server and the occasional actually useful tech tip video are still their best stuff.
Most else feels half baked or falls into the GN video criticism.
I filtered out ltt on yt a long time ago bc they were clickbait tech trash, like the journalistic equivalent of people magazine
This is why I feel only mildly outraged, compared to other comments here. LTT/LMG was only ever entertainment to me so gross factual errors neither surprise nor frustrate me personally. Any graphs or data presented couldn’t be trusted because they were the product of what you saw on screen, which was a buncha dorks bashing around equipment with a running gag of dropping expensive tech on the floor.
Linus justifies his frantic video production pace in terms of budget and finance. He should at least be able to reflect on the monetary harm to the small businesses that his botched reviews caused. To me, that’s what needs to be remedied ASAP because the two case studies presented (Billet and Pwnage) are not huge Nvidia corporations. Getting knocked around in the market can spell doom for everyone who works there.
I unsubscribed from LTT years ago when the silly content ramped up.
YouTube kept suggesting LTT and I had to block the channel so I’m not really familiar with their content anymore, looks like they only got worse.
This is shameful.
Linus has already put out a response and it’s not great either. There’s some points of contrition, that it was done on his watch so ultimately he’s reasonable, but overall he justifies their actions as a company coming into it’s stride and being transparent with their mistakes (instead of them just rushing out content without proper vetting)
It’s not a great look, but it’s one I’ve come to expect from him given how he’s handled previous community backlash with the backpack, screwdriver and other scenarios.
