I think its more the implication that Linus looked like stripper on the table. But I appreciate that could be a stretch. I’m more concerned by a) instructing people to go directly to the person harassing them with no managerial oversight first, b) implying harassment complaints are drama, c) suggesting that its not their job to resolve harassment complaints by down playing them as “interpersonal problems” and d) intentionally or unintentionally suggesting that if you have a problem you are going against the fun environment, which instantly puts a harassment victim in an us vs them environment.
I’m coming at this from a lawyer perspective, as I am a lawyer (albeit not an employment or harassment lawyer) and I’ve witnessed first hand how harassment and discriminated employees are not respected by management. I’ve seen how that impacts people’s mental health and how, especially for younger women, it creates a toxic cycle where it can be extremely difficult to leave because you’ve internalized the harassing and discriminatory experience to the point of thinking “well, who else will hire me? I can’t just get another job.”
I realize if you have not experienced that or witnessed that, its hard to understand how a toxic environment can lead to that mindset. So hearing someone joking around in an emergency all company meeting may not immediately seem problematic. But when the subject of the meeting is harassment, and a high ranking manager just jokes around like its not a big deal, and that joke is tacitly approved of by the executive level (where there isn’t immediate correction), it all strikes me as a corporate culture that doesn’t respect the seriousness of harassment.
I’m also biased as my office literally just had our annual harassment training yesterday.
Right?! Have you talked to them first? “Hey, harasser, you know you keep grabbing my ass and I don’t like that, could you not?” Literally every harasser will laugh in your face and say something like “You love it” to trivialize it. Any HR person knows that that’s now how that works.
Did you catch “Our 3rd party HR provider”? So they outsourced HR. How am I not even a tiny bit surprised?
Did you catch “Our 3rd party HR provider”? So they outsourced HR. How am I not even a tiny bit surprised?
Why is that an issue? Would you rather they investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing?
It’s not uncommon for HR to be an outside entity, to maintain a semblance of neutrality. Otherwise, it’s much much easier for internal HR teams to sweep things under the rug.
Oh I’m all for 3rd party oversight, but what it sounds like is this is one of those outsourced HR teams from overseas that are more or less paperwork pushers. They’re commonly used to avoid having to pay for actual HR that, you know, actually does human relations. These are separate from 3rd party oversights, which usually are separate from a full HR team.
They usually provide super super duper helpful 1-800 numbers where you, as an employee, can call and complain about something, feel better, gets logged in a report, and nothing then is done. I did work for consulting companies that used these and shockingly, they are terrible.
Because this was a meeting about generalized HR policies. If you have an issue with somebody usually the most corrective action is to talk to them. It can be a work issue, it can be a hygiene issue it can be just an annoyance issue, not everything has to be out and out battle in sexual harassment. Now if it is sexual harassment and you don’t feel comfortable escalating they did outline other pathways. But since this is generalized guidance they’re providing multiple avenues from the most effective and least laborious, to the most laborious and least effective.
They did say, if you aren’t comfortable talking to the person then go to management or fill in the anonymous form. Seems fine. Most inteepersonal stuff can be resolved by people just talking to each other, but if it is known the other party is an ass, just go to management. And HR is often outsourced at smaller corps, sames as payroll or IT can be.
“but the first question will be did you talk to them”. Definitely pushing that we’re going to encourage you to solve your own problems with your harasser
Sure, but often harassment starts out with a bully testing the waters and you can shut that down immediatly, and state your boundary. Then report if they break it. Not only is taking care of shit empowering, but if you have ever worked at a place with lots of catty people management can spend their whole day on petty bullshit instead of actual work.
Also you can do both at once. I had that situation with this monster of a guy being verbal abusive to everyone. one day I lost it and told him ti eff right off and cut the stupid bullshit, then I walked right to my supervisor and said I just told the plant guy to eff off so you might get an earfull. He actually did come to talk to my boss, boss was like I think you heard him right.
That guy was super amicable from that day on, he just needed to be put in his place.
I’m glad that worked for you, but that doesn’t mean it works for everyone, and it shouldn’t have to. Anyone should feel safe going and asking for help to stop someone they feel uncomfortable around.
I got a talk with HR once because someone thought at some meeting I kept staring at her boobs. My literal answer was “er… what?”, because I didn’t even realize they were at that meeting, much less sitting right opposite me. I do however have a tendency of getting lost in thought and letting my eyes wander or fixate on some random thing, might be a plant, a chair, a random fixture, whatever… guess it could’ve been some boobs. 🙈🤷
If they had confronted me right after the meeting, I’d just apologize… but no, HR it was, and…
Any HR person knows that that’s now how that works.
Since then, I make a point of carrying a pen and looking at that… just to avoid someone who I might not even notice is there, accusing me of sexually harassing them 🙄
I think its more the implication that Linus looked like stripper on the table. But I appreciate that could be a stretch. I’m more concerned by a) instructing people to go directly to the person harassing them with no managerial oversight first, b) implying harassment complaints are drama, c) suggesting that its not their job to resolve harassment complaints by down playing them as “interpersonal problems” and d) intentionally or unintentionally suggesting that if you have a problem you are going against the fun environment, which instantly puts a harassment victim in an us vs them environment.
I’m coming at this from a lawyer perspective, as I am a lawyer (albeit not an employment or harassment lawyer) and I’ve witnessed first hand how harassment and discriminated employees are not respected by management. I’ve seen how that impacts people’s mental health and how, especially for younger women, it creates a toxic cycle where it can be extremely difficult to leave because you’ve internalized the harassing and discriminatory experience to the point of thinking “well, who else will hire me? I can’t just get another job.”
I realize if you have not experienced that or witnessed that, its hard to understand how a toxic environment can lead to that mindset. So hearing someone joking around in an emergency all company meeting may not immediately seem problematic. But when the subject of the meeting is harassment, and a high ranking manager just jokes around like its not a big deal, and that joke is tacitly approved of by the executive level (where there isn’t immediate correction), it all strikes me as a corporate culture that doesn’t respect the seriousness of harassment.
I’m also biased as my office literally just had our annual harassment training yesterday.
Right?! Have you talked to them first? “Hey, harasser, you know you keep grabbing my ass and I don’t like that, could you not?” Literally every harasser will laugh in your face and say something like “You love it” to trivialize it. Any HR person knows that that’s now how that works.
Did you catch “Our 3rd party HR provider”? So they outsourced HR. How am I not even a tiny bit surprised?
Why is that an issue? Would you rather they investigate themselves and find no wrongdoing?
It’s not uncommon for HR to be an outside entity, to maintain a semblance of neutrality. Otherwise, it’s much much easier for internal HR teams to sweep things under the rug.
Oh I’m all for 3rd party oversight, but what it sounds like is this is one of those outsourced HR teams from overseas that are more or less paperwork pushers. They’re commonly used to avoid having to pay for actual HR that, you know, actually does human relations. These are separate from 3rd party oversights, which usually are separate from a full HR team.
They usually provide super super duper helpful 1-800 numbers where you, as an employee, can call and complain about something, feel better, gets logged in a report, and nothing then is done. I did work for consulting companies that used these and shockingly, they are terrible.
HR is not short for human relations. It’s short for human resources. Humans are resources.
Because this was a meeting about generalized HR policies. If you have an issue with somebody usually the most corrective action is to talk to them. It can be a work issue, it can be a hygiene issue it can be just an annoyance issue, not everything has to be out and out battle in sexual harassment. Now if it is sexual harassment and you don’t feel comfortable escalating they did outline other pathways. But since this is generalized guidance they’re providing multiple avenues from the most effective and least laborious, to the most laborious and least effective.
They did say, if you aren’t comfortable talking to the person then go to management or fill in the anonymous form. Seems fine. Most inteepersonal stuff can be resolved by people just talking to each other, but if it is known the other party is an ass, just go to management. And HR is often outsourced at smaller corps, sames as payroll or IT can be.
“but the first question will be did you talk to them”. Definitely pushing that we’re going to encourage you to solve your own problems with your harasser
Sure, but often harassment starts out with a bully testing the waters and you can shut that down immediatly, and state your boundary. Then report if they break it. Not only is taking care of shit empowering, but if you have ever worked at a place with lots of catty people management can spend their whole day on petty bullshit instead of actual work. Also you can do both at once. I had that situation with this monster of a guy being verbal abusive to everyone. one day I lost it and told him ti eff right off and cut the stupid bullshit, then I walked right to my supervisor and said I just told the plant guy to eff off so you might get an earfull. He actually did come to talk to my boss, boss was like I think you heard him right. That guy was super amicable from that day on, he just needed to be put in his place.
I’m glad that worked for you, but that doesn’t mean it works for everyone, and it shouldn’t have to. Anyone should feel safe going and asking for help to stop someone they feel uncomfortable around.
I got a talk with HR once because someone thought at some meeting I kept staring at her boobs. My literal answer was “er… what?”, because I didn’t even realize they were at that meeting, much less sitting right opposite me. I do however have a tendency of getting lost in thought and letting my eyes wander or fixate on some random thing, might be a plant, a chair, a random fixture, whatever… guess it could’ve been some boobs. 🙈🤷
If they had confronted me right after the meeting, I’d just apologize… but no, HR it was, and…
Since then, I make a point of carrying a pen and looking at that… just to avoid someone who I might not even notice is there, accusing me of sexually harassing them 🙄
I don’t see it as bias. It’s a good explanation, and I appreciate you taking the time!
Unless you count a few temp jobs, I’ve never worked in a corporate office.