And now you blame feminists? It’s kinda astounding that your life experiences haven’t taught you what nonsense stereotypes and generalisations are.
…I guess it is kinda in theme with the comic though. Assuming that all trans people would get that would be just as generalising, and very apparently wrong.
Friend I grew up watching various PSAs that showed boys as dumb and corrupt while talking all this “GIRL POWER! A WOMAN CAN DO ANYHTING A MAN CAN DO BECAUSE MEN ARE STUPID!” crap, how do you think that makes a boy feel? Especially when he doesn’t even want to be a boy to begin with!?!
Man, I’m sorry that you’re literally sharing a childhood traumatizing experience, and ppl can’t even empathize and are even attacking you. Proof that if you don’t tow the party line, it doesn’t matter what your background is.
If it’s all about only the message approved, then they aren’t really what they claim to be.
Proof that if you don’t tow the party line, it doesn’t matter what your background is.
Well, yeah? What’s the alternative? “If we like your background it doesn’t really matter what positions you hold - trans people should be allowed generalise a bit and trash feminism, as a treat”?!
I’m queer myself. I will hold you responsible for your words, no matter your background. Especially when it comes to feminism. And that obviously includes women of all backgrounds. If anything I expect more solidarity from them, not less.
The alternative is not what youre thinking likely. The alternative is something more nuanced than this-or-that thinking. Something where everyone that’s not bigoted is recognized and considered. Not just a single group.
The alternative is not what youre thinking likely. The alternative is something more nuanced than this-or-that thinking. Something where everyone that’s not bigoted is recognized and considered. Not just a single group.
But working against feminism is bigoted. I feel sorry if someone acts destructively because they had a horrible childhood - nevertheless, acting destructively in itself shouldn’t be tolerated.
I mean who actually benefits from ruining the reputation of feminism? Probably the very people who hurt Queen HawlSera as a child. We’re not doing kids like her any favors by allowing that.
It’s not working against feminism to ask that everyone be considered to the same standard. There’s a world where that is possible. Is it easy? No. But nothing great is ever easy.
Now you’ve lost me - should we all be held to the same standard or should OP be exempt from the general rules of decency because of their background?
Because if we’re talking about the standard of “unfair generalisations are unfair, don’t do it” (which is what I’ve been talking about, don’t know about you) then Queen HawlSera clearly failed to meet it.
That isn’t the gotcha you think it is. HawlSera was sharing their unique experience, which gives them a broader perspective than most (e.g., perspective from, in this circumstance, the two sides in question). Everyone ought to have the chance to be heard. I never said anyone shouldn’t be heard out.
In order to have a world that works for all, you need to seek out and give each perspective a voice. The only exception being bigots. If you can’t see how that’s not the same standard, you can’t be helped.
All this comic does is emphasise how stupid it would be to lump all feminists together. If you deny this you are doing exactly the same thing as those you’re complaining about.
They never stated “all feminists,” they said as a movement, feminism has had a lot of messaging that is anti men which was somewhat mainstream in the movement (commercials being played of girl smart boy dumb). I don’t know how common it is but it has absolutely been a noticeable part of feminism intentionally or not.
I don’t think those commercials are made by people who identify as “feminists” though, or are really trying to convey a feminist message.
Conversations about advertising I’ve had in feminist spaces see that as almost parentification. (Huge, under discussed issue with eldest daughters especially) Boys get to be children, girls are expected to be hyper competent.
A big issue is also that everyone in the broader conversation about feminism is operating under their own private definition of what feminism is. That’s why we have people who consider themselves “feminists” for “protecting women’s bathrooms” while also platforming Nazis, or people who consider crass commercial pandering to be representative of an ideology.
The conversation is in stasis, because “feminism” to some is the blue haired woman shouting at a protest, or pussy hats, or female supremacy, or 4B, or libfem, or radfem, or influenced by queer theory (or lesbians who can’t stand the term “queer.”) It’s a family of ideologies, not a single one - but people are often argue against one specific ideology (or even trollish misrepresentations) when arguing against “feminism” in general.
mm I mean it’s hard to pin down specifics but that whole decade, most shows had the guy being an unbelievable idiot causing problems while the girls solved the problems, movies were the same, commercials were probably the last to follow. Maybe not exactly feminism, but the goal was to show women are as competent and sometimes moreso than men, which is a big tenant of feminism, even if it was done super poorly.
I’m not defending their use of feminism, but it seems like common media and messaging for basically two decades definitely did have quite a bit of “anti men pro woman” feeling. Regardless of the actual intent or “real” values of feminism, what many people received was “feminism believes men are stupid/hateful.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence so many people think that’s what feminism is. Likely just a failure of messaging, but I think that’s where their definition is coming from.
Those commercials are a direct result of the patriarchy. You only think they’re a result of feminism because, in this case, they paint women in a better light — but only so that they can eventually become mothers to their husbands. Patriarchy doesn’t only affect women, it affects us all.
I mean that’s hard to say? This seems like it’s just a result of people overcompensating and not realizing they don’t have to say “boy dumb” in order to say “girl equal.” It seems people agree this is what they heard from mainstream feminist messaging, regardless of whether it was “real” feminism or not
People don’t agree that’s what they heard from mainstream feminism, priviledged men losing 1% of their priviledge agree that’s what they heard from mainstream feminism.
And now you blame feminists? It’s kinda astounding that your life experiences haven’t taught you what nonsense stereotypes and generalisations are.
…I guess it is kinda in theme with the comic though. Assuming that all trans people would get that would be just as generalising, and very apparently wrong.
Friend I grew up watching various PSAs that showed boys as dumb and corrupt while talking all this “GIRL POWER! A WOMAN CAN DO ANYHTING A MAN CAN DO BECAUSE MEN ARE STUPID!” crap, how do you think that makes a boy feel? Especially when he doesn’t even want to be a boy to begin with!?!
Man, I’m sorry that you’re literally sharing a childhood traumatizing experience, and ppl can’t even empathize and are even attacking you. Proof that if you don’t tow the party line, it doesn’t matter what your background is.
If it’s all about only the message approved, then they aren’t really what they claim to be.
Well, yeah? What’s the alternative? “If we like your background it doesn’t really matter what positions you hold - trans people should be allowed generalise a bit and trash feminism, as a treat”?!
I’m queer myself. I will hold you responsible for your words, no matter your background. Especially when it comes to feminism. And that obviously includes women of all backgrounds. If anything I expect more solidarity from them, not less.
The alternative is not what youre thinking likely. The alternative is something more nuanced than this-or-that thinking. Something where everyone that’s not bigoted is recognized and considered. Not just a single group.
But working against feminism is bigoted. I feel sorry if someone acts destructively because they had a horrible childhood - nevertheless, acting destructively in itself shouldn’t be tolerated.
I mean who actually benefits from ruining the reputation of feminism? Probably the very people who hurt Queen HawlSera as a child. We’re not doing kids like her any favors by allowing that.
It’s not working against feminism to ask that everyone be considered to the same standard. There’s a world where that is possible. Is it easy? No. But nothing great is ever easy.
Now you’ve lost me - should we all be held to the same standard or should OP be exempt from the general rules of decency because of their background?
Because if we’re talking about the standard of “unfair generalisations are unfair, don’t do it” (which is what I’ve been talking about, don’t know about you) then Queen HawlSera clearly failed to meet it.
That isn’t the gotcha you think it is. HawlSera was sharing their unique experience, which gives them a broader perspective than most (e.g., perspective from, in this circumstance, the two sides in question). Everyone ought to have the chance to be heard. I never said anyone shouldn’t be heard out.
In order to have a world that works for all, you need to seek out and give each perspective a voice. The only exception being bigots. If you can’t see how that’s not the same standard, you can’t be helped.
And what does that have to do with feminism?
All this comic does is emphasise how stupid it would be to lump all feminists together. If you deny this you are doing exactly the same thing as those you’re complaining about.
Feminism made the “Yes, All Men!” argument
All feminists?
Because if we had a mandatory global meeting I sure as hell missed my invitation.
They never stated “all feminists,” they said as a movement, feminism has had a lot of messaging that is anti men which was somewhat mainstream in the movement (commercials being played of girl smart boy dumb). I don’t know how common it is but it has absolutely been a noticeable part of feminism intentionally or not.
I don’t think those commercials are made by people who identify as “feminists” though, or are really trying to convey a feminist message.
Conversations about advertising I’ve had in feminist spaces see that as almost parentification. (Huge, under discussed issue with eldest daughters especially) Boys get to be children, girls are expected to be hyper competent.
A big issue is also that everyone in the broader conversation about feminism is operating under their own private definition of what feminism is. That’s why we have people who consider themselves “feminists” for “protecting women’s bathrooms” while also platforming Nazis, or people who consider crass commercial pandering to be representative of an ideology.
The conversation is in stasis, because “feminism” to some is the blue haired woman shouting at a protest, or pussy hats, or female supremacy, or 4B, or libfem, or radfem, or influenced by queer theory (or lesbians who can’t stand the term “queer.”) It’s a family of ideologies, not a single one - but people are often argue against one specific ideology (or even trollish misrepresentations) when arguing against “feminism” in general.
mm I mean it’s hard to pin down specifics but that whole decade, most shows had the guy being an unbelievable idiot causing problems while the girls solved the problems, movies were the same, commercials were probably the last to follow. Maybe not exactly feminism, but the goal was to show women are as competent and sometimes moreso than men, which is a big tenant of feminism, even if it was done super poorly.
I’m not defending their use of feminism, but it seems like common media and messaging for basically two decades definitely did have quite a bit of “anti men pro woman” feeling. Regardless of the actual intent or “real” values of feminism, what many people received was “feminism believes men are stupid/hateful.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence so many people think that’s what feminism is. Likely just a failure of messaging, but I think that’s where their definition is coming from.
Those commercials are a direct result of the patriarchy. You only think they’re a result of feminism because, in this case, they paint women in a better light — but only so that they can eventually become mothers to their husbands. Patriarchy doesn’t only affect women, it affects us all.
I mean that’s hard to say? This seems like it’s just a result of people overcompensating and not realizing they don’t have to say “boy dumb” in order to say “girl equal.” It seems people agree this is what they heard from mainstream feminist messaging, regardless of whether it was “real” feminism or not
People don’t agree that’s what they heard from mainstream feminism, priviledged men losing 1% of their priviledge agree that’s what they heard from mainstream feminism.
Scientific evidence that g*mer brainrot transcends gender though.