• Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The communist version of this meme has someone with a whip and sword standing behind them and telling them to work for the benefit of the people or die

    • duderium [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      This is called projection, especially since capitalism itself was built with ongoing slavery and genocide. The only people who should fear communists are the bourgeoisie and their running dogs.

      • Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us
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        1 year ago

        I swear any comment that has any little thing to do with capitalism causes every hexbear user to crawl out of the walls seething with rage.

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        And farmers who own their lands, and workers who want unions independent of the state, and political dissidents, and a thousand other groups

          • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            you mean that land that is worthless without government fundings and bail out?

            Idk man the kulaks liked their land and died for it

            wut im sorry are you gonna try to claim capitalism is better for workers? XD

            By any objective measure, capitalism plus taxes and a robust social welfare system is the best available system.

        • carl_marks_1312 [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          farmers who own their lands,

          which burned their crop because they didn’t want to collectivize causing food shortages

          and workers who want unions independent of the state,

          which were ultimately used by the west (solidarnośc)

          and political dissidents,

          Unlike any other country

          and a thousand other groups

          No u

          the bourgeoisie and their running dogs.

              • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                I’m just saying, you assert capitalist countries would do the same as communist countries with political dissidents, why aren’t you in a capitalist gulag for speaking against capitalism quite publically?

                • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Look at what happened actual organized dissidents like Fred Hapton, MLK, the Black Panthers, the original Black Lives Matters organizers in Ferguson etc. if you want to see what the US gov does to dissidents. We’re just people on a reddit clone, they don’t care

        • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          And farmers who own their lands

          The Maoist uprising against the landlords was the most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, leading to almost totally equal redistribution of the land amongst the peasantry

          • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            He’s entitled to keep the product of his labour, “hiring” isn’t a thing after the revolution since “money” isn’t a thing after the revolution, nor is “owning” a farm. If he “hires” a guy to plant crops, the hired man has done the labor and thus owns the crops. Since the farm is “the means of production,” “the man who owns the farm” does not actually own the farm, “the people” do.

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I’m talking about how farms are in capitalist US now. People who own the land rip off laborers, who tend to be migrant workers without a way of protecting themselves.

              I want the revolution to expropriatate the land and belong to to the people

              • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                Oh he had listed those things as “people who should fear communism” so I thought you were on topic not just throwing semi-related jabs at farmers who will never read this, so I thought you meant like “only if he pays people less than minimum wage” so I popped in with “no no, not even if he does pay well.” My mistake!

                • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Edit: People like that do fear communism. They’re kulaks

                  I changed “should” to “do”, because they don’t have to fear it, but most do because of their class position

    • Nevoic@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      You know I’m a communist, and I’d actually wager we would agree on your stance here if you chose better words. What you’re actually advocating against is state capitalism, and we both agree it’s a horrific and unjust system.

      Something I’ve noticed about “anti-communists” is they absolutely love taking the USSR, CCP, and DPRK at their word for what they are. When they describe themselves as communist/socialist, you take it as an undeniable fact.

      Do you think the DPRK is a democratic republic? It’s in the name. Of course you don’t, because it’d be ridiculous to let an authoritarian regime change the definitions of words to mean whatever they want it to mean :)

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        There’s two paths to talking with a communist. Either they’re a tankie and start singing the praises of the USSR and PRC and all sorts of totalitarian hellholes, or they start talking about hypothetical economic systems and states which haven’t been shown to be practically achievable. I don’t say this to be a dick, man. I much prefer the utopian idealist communists over those who cheer when political dissidents are machine gunned for wanting democracy. But it still doesn’t make libertarian communism a workable system, whether it’s anarchic communism or democratic socialism or some other form of stateless society.

        So, I am happy to be civil with you, I just fundamentally disagree about whether attempting to achieve those ideals would end well. In my opinion, it would have one of three results - anarchy and a breakdown of the economy, imposition of totalitarian rule in reaction to groups of people who don’t want to give up their private property rights, or reversion to another form of economic structure, like capitalism.

        • PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Either they’re a tankie and start singing the praises of the USSR and PRC and all sorts of totalitarian hellholes, or they start talking about hypothetical economic systems and states which haven’t been shown to be practically achievable

          Well allow me to present the third option: communism has been tried in Australia and North America, and it worked. Marx’s ideas of what a communist society would look like were informed by descriptions he read of how the Haudenosaunee people actually organised their society. They did communism for thousands of years and it worked.

          • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Marx covers tribal societies in his books and he doesn’t consider them to be practicing the socialist mode of production. In fact, he describes the tribal mode of production. You should read some theory.

        • Nevoic@programming.dev
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          1 year ago

          No economic or political system can be shown to be practically achievable before it’s been achieved. If you don’t think the following examples are examples of genuine socialism/communism, then that’s not an argument against the ideology.

          We’ve had communists fight alongside other leftists. So revolutionary Catalonia was a functioning leftist space, meeting all the criteria to be called communist (classless/moneyless/stateless). It functioned incredibly well for a year before it was invaded.

          If you want a longer, but smaller example, Red Vienna existed for about 2 decades and was a fully functional socialist space that improved worker’s lives before being outlawed by a regime change.

          If your position is that imperialist capitalist nations will always invade/outlaw well-functioning socialist/communist systems, you can’t know that for sure, but it’s definitely a possibility. That doesn’t mean the entire idea is worth throwing away.

            • Nevoic@programming.dev
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              1 year ago

              It won’t always be the same ones so I’m unsure of what you’re asking. Which ones invaded the spaces I listed before?

              For Revolutionary Catalonia it was the Nationalist Faction who overthrew them. They advocated for, and implemented, a form of national syndicalism that was “fully compatible with capitalism”.

              For Red Vienna is was the fascists who overturned the socialist policies and returned the city to a state of capitalism, allowing land-leeches and other bourgeoise to return to continue exploiting the working class.

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Anarchic communism is an incoherent and silly an ideology as anarcho-capitalism. It’s impossible to argue against someone who believes in the economic policy equivalent of believing the world can run on kittens and rainbows.