• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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    2 years ago

    Personally, i’m strongly in the “no” camp (“freedom or death”). But this article is a somewhat fair argument for “yes”.

    I would argue that’s putting the cart before the horse. Focusing on maximizing individual freedoms before basic needs are met is not a workable solution. I look at this from the perspective of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Everyone should have their material needs met before the focus is turned to higher needs.

    Is that not the case all the way back to Lenin, who promised communism but massacre everyone who actually practiced it (Ukraine Commune, Cronstadt…) ?

    I think this shows that people will generally act in their own interest based on the systemic pressures they’re exposed to. Under communism, people didn’t have ways to accumulate wealth, exploit others for their benefit, and so on. So, people would channel their energies in generally positive ways. However, once the systemic pressures changed, these same people quickly adapted to new opportunities open to them and exploitation of the weak by the strong became the norm.

    for example the PCF in France defending independent Algeria on paper then voting for the war against independence, or denouncing State racism then mounting local militias to attack immigrant housing

    Opportunism is always a problem, and just because a party calls itself communist does not mean that it upholds the ideals in practice. This is a problem within any ideology. Somebody could call themselves an anarchist and only pay lip service to those ideas as well.

    That’s true, but misleading. Some people’s republics have done huge service to foreign populations (eg. Cuban medical support), but when it comes from the USSR it was never (that i know of) for free. Material support was in exchange of suppressing the local leftists (like Lenin/Trotsky did in USSR) in order to build a vassal state.

    That’s misleading as well, USSR existed in a state of war with the capitalist world since its formation. It wasn’t a free society because it was at war, not because it was communist. The collective west invaded USSR right after the revolution, then USSR was plunged into WW2 a couple of decades later leading to huge devastation. Meanwhile, US sat on the sidelines and developed a huge military industrial complex, then profiteered from reconstruction in Europe, and ultimately turned western Europe into a vassal state. Then US used this power to start a Cold War against USSR.

    That’s for example what the USSR did during the spanish revolution, which arguably killed the revolution and led to the victory of fraquist fascism.

    Last I checked, it was the anarchists who turned on the communists which led to fascists ultimately taking power, much like social democrats sided with the nazis in Germany against the communists.

    Yet again, what’s wrong with this? Lenin literally came back to Russia in the middle of a revolution, organized a military putsch, and jailed/killed all opposition. Not only did he do it but he advocated for this as “vanguard” and “dictatorship of the proletariat”.

    Dictatorship of the proletariat is the one approach that has been shown to successfully work in practice. Every society today is a class society, and it exists under the rule of the class that holds power. It’s clearly better from the perspective of the majority for the working class to be in charge.

    Wow we are definitely not talking about the same “leftists”. Remember the author was citing Chomsky as an example of left anti-communism. How is Chomsky any close to the Democratic Party?

    Chomsky consistently advocates for working within the system and voting for democrats as a solution. Chomsky has never advocated for tearing down US system, and in fact often defends it as the best available. Some examples here.

    Right on point. But how does that make such injustice acceptable? Noone is arguing that western neoliberalism is “better” than USSR State capitalism. At least noone on the left.

    Unfortunately, I’ve seen many people who consider themselves being on the left in the west say that current western system is preferable to USSR. Generally the argument is rooted in having more personal freedoms.

    On the contrary, it is arguable that personal/communal autonomy is a fuel that drives people to defend the revolution with all their heart, whereas conscription or being ordered to execute your neighbors or union comrades is not exactly a good motivation…

    I agree that personal/communal autonomy works best in time of peace. However, as long as capitalism is the dominant system in the world any socialist experiment will necessarily exist under duress. Capitalism must be overthrown globally in order for truly egalitarian systems to become viable.

    I somewhat agree with this interpretation. But i could also take it from another angle: Having never understood the role that perspectives of actual freedom & equality for all played in tempering the worst impulses of tyranny, and having perceived anarchism as nothing but chaos, the marxist-leninists did not anticipate the losses that were to come. Some of them still don’t get it.

    I think that people focus entirely too much on the past without contextualizing it. The type of system you get is rooted in the material conditions, culture, history and so on. If a socialist revolution ever happens in the west then it will necessarily be rooted in western values. Things like personal freedoms are a core value of the western society today, and I think it’s silly to imagine that we’d see the type of society that USSR had as an outcome. It will necessarily be socialism with western characteristics.