This is a living hell
Remember, socialism is evil because in socialism you won’t own anything.
Meanwhile, capitalism creates this…
I’ve recently seen a random Youtube video (about the Unity pricing changes) that was talking about capitalism and what it was meant to be, and one key point that has stuck with me is that capitalism should absolutely hate rent, and the early capitalism was against it.
IIRC the reasoning was that rent was mainly a feudalism thing, and also because it doesn’t really provide much value, since you aren’t necessarily using it to invest and offer a better service to the one who’s paying it, you’re just extorting money from them.
The video was also mentioning a term, which may be totally made-up but I really like, which was technofeudalism - which describes the recent trend of every company trying to switch to subscription models, so they can also extort rent from you for using the internet, without providing a better service. Paying monthly for seat warmers in a car? Paying monthly for a guitar tuner app? Paying monthly for X? That’s not capitalism, that’s just plain feudalism - there’s no added value or improved service, they are just slapping on unreasonable costs because they can.
I just woke up, and seen the video a few weeks back, so my summary of the main ideas of the video may be totally wrong. I also have no idea what sources, if any, was the video based on, so it may be total bullshit. But I like the term, technofeudalism sounds cool, and the idea is pretty intuitive to quickly share, while sounding like something that makes sense. But that one video is my only source I have about it, II don’t even know whether that term exists or is made up. I’ll try to find the video later.
EDIT: It was this one.
Socialism is frequently evil because the people pushing for it tend to murder a lot of people for no other reason than opposing socialist dogma.
When we find socialist societies not built on murdering everyone who disagrees with the leader/party/state then we can talk about it being better.
…boy do i have some news for you about US foreign policy since the 50’s
No. You see, corporations murdering people for profit isn’t the same. Coke killing union leaders or Rio Tinto destroying entire towns doesn’t count because they’re not government. Q.E.D
Oh boy…
Coke pushing foreign governments to murder union leaders is in fact quite different than the state purging people. One is a company paying off a corrupt government to murder people that government likely does not want gaining power and the other is the state murdering people who oppose their political views.
How many people were murdered in COINTELPRO? Where is the purge that is similar to say the numerous purges in Soviet or Chinese history?
Is the USA killing its own people in purges?
Yes, have you not been paying attention to the rampant unchecked police problem
…boy do I have some news for you about Soviet domestic policy back when it still existed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
You understand that communism and socialism are not the same thing? Stalinism and Communism are also not the same thing.
OOOOOOOOOH ARE WE WIKI LINKING NOW?
Are foreign invasions and acts of war the same thing as domestic purges of opposing ideologues?
Haha let’s go https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_empire
Party foul. The point was ‘socialism bad because socialists kill people for opposing socialist dogma!!’
Showing the US spending 70 odd years ramming it up the arse of various countries for daring to consider /vote in a system that is not capitalism belies that position and acts as a counterpoint. Going ‘hurrbluur soviets’ adds nothing.
How do you have a Lemmy account and still have this level of comprehension about socialism?
Tankies aren’t the entirety of socialists, just like anarcho capitalists aren’t all capitalists.
How have you not read history? The societies that have pursued socialism have all engaged in purges.
This has nothing to do with tankies.
Capitalism is rapidly making this planet less habitable.
Industrialism and overconsumption is what is doing that. The PRC and USSR are/were also responsible for colossal environmental damage. The Aral Sea is almost entirely gone due to bad planning by the USSR.
It’s not capitalism, it’s industrialization that’s making the planet less habitable, which is completely possible under socialism or communism.
Correct, however if the workers own the means of production they would have greater motivation AND greater ability to change the methods of industrialization to ways that are a little less… pollutey or dangerous.
Instead, under capitalism, we get politicians who are actively working to eliminate as many environmental, health and safety regulations as possible because they’re
bribedlobbied to do so by their corporate masters.Instead, under capitalism, we get politicians who are actively working to eliminate as many environmental, health and safety regulations as possible
Under capitalism, we got those regulations to begin with…
Which to be fair, isn’t because of capitalism we got regulation, but because of Democracy. Democracy is capable of keeping capitalism in check, to a point. After a certain amount of wealth inequality, which we’ve already passed, capitalism goes destructively out of control.
Correct, however if the workers own the means of production
I generally agree, although if you have a “dictatorship of the proletariat” like the USSR that desides it needs to heavily industrialize to compete with capitalist counties, it could be just as bad or worse for the environment.
You don’t want a “dictatorship of the proletariat”, and neither do I, but we already have corporations trying to strip regulations and policies because they want America to be more like China or Russia. Mega corps could make a little more money if they were free to pollute and exploit as they pleased.
And, let’s be clear, aside from some Uber-comrade tankies, no one is suggesting we adopt a soviet or Maoist style communism.
I’m not really that much invested in politics and don’t really know much about any of the leading sociological/political theories aside from the common knowledge, but your point made me realize something.
if the workers own the means of production they would have greater motivation AND greater ability to change the methods
Oh, god. Give how does the political landscape looks across the world, be it the fact that there are still millions of Trump supporters, the fact that it looks like that in Slovakia, a guy who’s basically unhinged and outright evil will win elections, and Hungary has it the same, to give just a few examples I know about from the top of my head…
Imagine if people who vote or act like that had the means of production. But that’s just my general loss of faith in humanity, and I by no means want to start arguing about whether socialism is/isn’t good, since I know nothing about it. Just a random though I had when I read your comment.
That’s a very valid point. But the people you are describing are already in positions of power or authority, they’re just all concentrated near the top of the chain. When you distribute that power and authority amongst the entire work force, things suddenly have a chance change for the better.
I actually spent some time working for one of the largest employee owned corporations in America. There were plenty of MAGA minded people working there, and It’s amazing how quickly they’ll embrace traditionally liberal or socialist notions when it affects their shares of stock. Things like strict health and safety regulations, hiring diversity and strong unions.
Obviously there will still be shitty people who make shitty decisions, hopefully there just wouldn’t be as many as there seem to be today.
Why does the Aral Sea a fraction of its size before communists were in charge of the area?
It’s industrialized societies that are the issue.
If the actual workers owned the actual means of production, I.E. if the people who’s entire livelihood depended on fishing that sea, do you believe they would have let unscrupulous people on the other side of the country exploit the sea the way they did?
The fucking shit you read on the internet sometimes, wow.
Find me a socialist nation that didn’t purge its population please
If anyone goes on to do this be a dear and find me a capitalist nation that didn’t purge its population while you’re at it.
Removed by mod
So Denmark? The nation whose PM said in 2015,
“I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism,” he said. “Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.”
In Rasmussen’s view, “The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish.”"
https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders
The Scandinavian nations are not socialist. They are not promoting workers owning the means of production and frequently push for free trade.
You are outright confused as to what socialism is and you should be less certain in your statements given that obvious confusion.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
You cannot be that dense
If I had a nickel…
name 10 countries in europe with majority socialist leadership
Way to put an uncrossable bar. Most of Europe are parliamentary democracies for which the ideological alignment of the individual leadership is irrelevant. What you have to look at is at the policy and law that those leaders are mandated to enact, and most of them will include socialist policies, even if they’re not braindead propagandizing it as socialism like lemmygrad would like them to.
Way to put an uncrossable bar.
if picking just 10 countries (out of over 40) that actually mostly vote socialist is too high a bar for a group of ‘mostly socialist’ countries to clear, the bar is not the problem
Most of Europe are parliamentary democracies for which the ideological alignment of the individual leadership is irrelevant.
personally i think that the ideological alignment of a countrys elected leaders, and by extension their voters, is pretty relevant to a discussion about the ideological alignment of a country
personally i think that judging whether something is socialist based on whether it enacts -some- socialist policies as opposed to whether it is socialist is inane
if they’re not braindead propagandizing it as socialism like lemmygrad would like them to.
- can you explain what braindead propagandizing socialist policies as socialist actually means
- can you explain why european elected officials do not propagandize socialist policies as socialist?
Name five European countries that are attempting to give the means of production to the workers.
I thought you had blocked me, why are you still here? go away, nobody wants to interact with a bad faith online troll.
It’s a good thing capitalist countries haven’t killed millions for oil or you might sound a little foolish. oh wait…
It’s a lot more affordable in places other than Hollywood
My library-card costs 8€ a year and I can work there all day long in a nice quite environment. Internet is free, so are beverages. It also has a streaming-service and I can rent consoles and such there as well. I dont understand why someone would pay 600€ a month just for a desk to work at
$2000/mo in the midwest would rent a house, if you’re just going to work remote anyway.
$800 mortgage for a house in the Midwest here. Nice house too.
What apr is that% no chance its the 6-7% that’s the norm now. But good for you for locking it it when it was low!
There are small towns with reasonable internet providers that still have houses for under $100k, sometimes well under, so yes, that’s possible. Not necessarily towns in the middle of nowhere, either.
Idk what APR our mortgage is, because it’s actually our father in law who got it, but ours is $550/month in the Midwest.
Property taxes keep going up each year though. We’re paying a few thousand a year now.
Not nice people though.
it’s like paying for a gun to shoot yourself with
it’s like *renting a gun to shoot yourself with
Smart move, what are they gonna do, charge late fees?
It’s just where he lives. All the things he pays for is more than what I pay for a 4 bedroom 2 living room house, fuel for my vehicles and water bill, that allows me to wash clothes whenever needed. You’ll hear how expensive shit is mostly from city dwellers. They live packed in with millions, competing for the same housing and jobs, and think you’re ignorant or a dullard for not wanting the same things they do.
think you’re ignorant or a dullard for not wanting the same things they do.
I encourage this because the more people who think this way the fewer people will want to live out in the boonies which means less light and noise pollution and no NIMBYs whining about the way my pigs smell.
I’d kill to live out in the boonies. But it’s hard to find a job out there if you’re in certain fields, or a rental. Unless you can afford to buy, you can’t live in the country. I live in the suburbs and my rent is still insane. I’m trying to pivot to a better paying career where I can work remotely, but I can’t do that overnight. Trust me, I hate living where I can hear people. All I want is to someday be able to walk outside into my own damned yard and not stare someone else in the face, but I have neither a yard nor privacy.
I don’t think that’s fair
If I could go live out in the woods by myself with my dog I’d love to do it. As it is I’ve moved out to a pretty rural area of my state because I hate living in the city.
However, prices are still pretty damn high out here, I just get a bit more space. On the other hand I have to go into work once every two weeks, and starting in a few months, I’ll have to go in 3 days a week. Driving in with traffic takes anywhere between 2 and 3 hours. But finding a job in my field closer to me is next to.impossible. so a lot of people live in the city, and chose to live in small hutches with 3 or 4 roommates. A lot of them would leave if they could too.
The only thing that might be prohibitive is meetings or calls. But lots of libraries have little meeting rooms for you to be a bit louder in.
It’s €pe, not the land of “free”(as in being dead). For me municipal library is 0₽, city library 0₽ and State Library that has every single book published in country also 0₽, but you have to be in right city.
Internet is free
And in Europe libraries are homes of knowledge, not warehouses of books. What is legal in Europe will get Internet Archive in trouble in the USA.
Last time i used library internet was a couple years ago, €4,50 for 15 minutes and on their outdated computers that do everything is slow as possible.
It took 14 minutes to print a single sided page from a government website.
One library an hour away across town by Uber cuz dude has no car or we work right down the block probably.
Right? This guy is really not smart if he’s paying $600 a month for a desk. He could go to a Starbucks everyday and spend $10 in food each day, and it would still be half the price to sit at a table and use wifi.
Hell, I’m pretty sure he could buy a desk and have it delivered to him for less than $600.
deleted by creator
That’s fucking criminal. You could pay for a camping lifestyle with 5g access for half that and get the same amenities. 1400 dollars for a bed is insane.
Imagine the landlord renting out two rooms, with two bunks each in a small unit.
$5,600 every month without having to work for it, maybe change a lightbulb occasionally. Even people who get that as wages need to pay for transportation to work, which cuts into the income- but not the landlord who gets it passively.
Damn… i could rent my bedroom out to like 6 tech bros and finally buy a house…
it your town won’t let you.
But then you’re not in Los Angeles. That’s a big part of trying to make it in this type of industry.
You could easily commute in from camp sites near LA.
Sure, fine. If you did that, the same author would be trying to write a piece about you.
Then where is the article? They’re out there doing it.
it’s insane, the cost. and the root? the insane idea that we should be able to make a profit. and worse, make it off living beings. no one needs to make a profit, only a living. profit is theft and greed and it’s killing our species.
(he’s right about not owning things. it’s freeing. one thing you can’t get back is time. no things, no chores.)
We need legal standards for pay so the employees stop being a profit center. If you can’t make a profit without exploitation then you don’t have a business; you have a criminal organization masquerading as a business.
1400 is my mortgage payment on a 3br house.
That you most definitely bought more than 4 years ago
Agreed. For reference a $1400 mortgage would be a 110,000 house loan at 8% + $520 monthly escrow (property tax and insurance) .
Yeah its sub 3% and we bought 5 years ago. 8% is highway robbery bro.
I pay under $1k and I bought my house a little over 2 years ago. House prices might have been high but those low interest rates are hard to pass up.
Between insurance, utilities, and mortgage I pay less than $2k a month while paying off a 3br house, mostly working from home (don’t need to rent a work desk in either case), and own a car.
Of course, none of this is in LA. I’m not too far outside of Atlanta though.
Camping requires public parks to camp in, otherwise we’re back at square one.
You mean like a national/state forest/park with designated camp sites available for 14 dollars in two week periods?
You’d just need to rotate around the area because they don’t let you stay continuously. So every 2 weeks you go to another camp.
I don’t understand why these people don’t just leave those economies of the big cities that they can’t afford to live in… and before anyone piles on I do agree that people should be making more money and things should be more affordable but to live like this versus living much better elsewhere for the same amount of money seems like a fairly easy choice
Jobs, careers, medical realities, cost of moving itself, etc. Basically structural reasons to our society. The rural areas are offloading jobs to the cities. They have been since World War 2. So while it might be feasible for someone in a Goldilocks zone of having the money to move and not having their career yet, most people aren’t in that zone.
If people don’t leave people won’t make more money. Market is saturated because everyone wants to live in the big city no matter the cost, and most of them want to work in tech.
If 50% of them left for smaller towns wages would go up and housing would go down. But no young tech workers want to live in a small town.
So, take the above with a grain of salt because it is, after all, green text. The numbers may be bullshit. The entire thing may be bullshit. Who knows.
But that said. $2000 monthly is more than my mortgage, utilities, insurance, internet, cell phone, and fuel expenditures combined in the same span of time. That is insane. (With what I overpay towards the principal on my mortgage puts me above that, but I wouldn’t technically have to. I’d just like to actually own my house some time this century, or at least before I’m dead.)
Why anyone would deliberately choose to live that way is beyond me. There isn’t anything special about my situation; I live in the here and now, at precisely the same date and time as this dude, in the same country, in a major metropolitan area. I’m not an executive, CEO, or landlord. I work in the durable goods industry, for fuck’s sake.
2000 a month isn’t enough for my 2 bedroom 30 minutes from the nearest city. But it was an upgrade from my 2600/month 600sqft apartment on the outskirt of said city. Fortunately we don’t pay utilities due to the shady number of rented dwellings on the single property. But we pay more for shittier Internet, and are limited to 1 cell phone provider option. Congratulations, you bought at a good time. I don’t hold it against you, but I ask that you understand that the market isn’t like that any more. We’re looking at 600,000$houses in our current neighborhood, 750 to be in the edge of the city, and they aren’t exactly ready for habitation, but that’s okay, they’ll be bought and flipped (poorly) and resold for 50% more on top of current asking by next summer.
Assuming they aren’t just rented out.
You live in a high cost of living area. I don’t hold it against you, but I ask that you understand the market isn’t like that everywhere.
Cost of living (COL) is relative to the area …
I suspect you live in some small town or rural area
I really don’t, but I’m also not dumb enough to try to rent in Hollywood. I live along the Baltimore-Philly-NYC corridor. Not exactly the middle of nowhere. Housing prices are insane since the pandemic here too, but not nearly as insane as spending $2000 a month to rent a bunk bed and a desk. (No word on what his gym membership costs, either.) As others have said here in these comments, they’re getting whole apartments for the same or not much more money. At that rate, Ikea will sell you a desk; all you gotta do is ask. That’s a $600/month come up right there, compared to this lunacy.
Even at today’s ludicrous interest rates, the mortgage on a half a million dollar home is somewhere around $2807 monthly, principal and interest. For someone willing to spend $2000 a month on nothing, that doesn’t sound like much of a stretch to me. Normal suburban homes around here have settled down to $350-550k, or you can buy a condo for a little over $100k. Spend less, pay less.
Seems to me homeboy works remotely. Does he actually need to have a Hollywood address? I’ll bet you he doesn’t. Even if you want to be “minimalist,” or whatever the fuck, a van to sleep in the back of or a trailer on the outskirts of town will still be yours after you’re done paying for it. FFS.
Just a note that while most mortgages are cheaper than most rental rates, the down payment is the hard part. I’d love to spend 1500 dollars a month on some crapshack that I can remodel myself, but having to scrape together tens of thousands of dollars is an almost insurmountable roadblock.
To be fair a desk isn’t just a desk at shared workspaces. You’re paying for a receptionist, phone hookup, business mail delivery, and pretty much all of the ancillary stuff a company would provide. Some people can just literally roll out of bed and boot their laptop up. Other people need professional spaces to take meetings in and whatnot.
Better then living in Hollywood.
Hollywood sucks, the only time I’ve been there in the past couple decades is when someone visits and wants to see it. But it does have some interesting things to do there. I’ve also lived in a couple small, rural towns. While a lot of small, rural towns would be preferable to Hollywood, honestly a lot of them wouldn’t.
than*
Meanwhile I, living less than a hundred miles from the green text, can’t find an apartment to rent for under $2k, and the median house prices for the county are north of a million dollars. If by some miracle I could put down 20-30% down, the mortagage would still be $4k. My electric bill alone is over $300. I’m glad it’s working out for you, but I would be interested in knowing where you’re at, because this shit here isn’t working.
I live in a decent sized city (but not what I’d call a large one -certainly not LA size) Good luck finding a one bedroom apartment for under $2000 if you want a place without roaches, mold, and bullet holes. The OP suggesting it might be that expensive someplace like downtown LA doesn’t seem crazy to me.
Two bedroom apartment where I am is 2500. And that’s because our land lord is nice and just looking for some extra money. A two bedroom actually goes for 3k easily.
Shit is fucked out here.
The average 1 bedroom suite in Vancouver BC is 2,500.
2500 what? Canadian Pesos? If so, that’s USD $1854.67.
Sorry, I didn’t know we only use USD here.
If you’re going to compare two things it only makes sense if you use the same units of measure. The article is discussing American prices.
I could just as well say an apartment in Japan costs “369,105” and not specify. Hey presto. Now my number is bigger than yours.
that’s 3,357.58 canadian peso, which is larger yes
Removed by mod
Your mortgage doesn’t go up at the same rate as the market though. What year did you buy, because my in-laws just sold their mobile home for $700k @ 7% interest.
“Works in social media advertising”
Boyyyyy. RUN.
Yep, did this for a couple years. Sucked my soul dry.
Landlords, landlords as far as the eye can see.
I’m sure Marx would be impressed at how after his writing swept across the world, we managed to turn most of the world into someone else’s private property that we all have to pay to use lol.
Cyberpunk dystopia, here we come!
Not to be an “achschually…” guy, but we’re already in a cyberpunk dystopia.
Then where are my chrome implants and RealFood© snacks? And our cool motorcycles?? And our cute gothpunk gfs???
Nah, I getcha, but we’re still just in the boring dystopia phase. Cyberpunk implies all the crushing hypercapitalism goodness, but in a sick neon color with fancy tech. Once tech hits the point where the 99% can no longer rise up, we’ll be safely locked into the cyberpunk dystopia.
Image Transcription:
A photo of a young man sitting at the top of a set of wooden steps attached to a bunk bed. Between the two beds is a chalkboard with “1”, an arrow pointing up, and “Zach” written on the left side and “Mike”, an arrow pointing down, and “2” written on the right side. Under the bed is a gap with a pair of shoes and a couple of hard plastic travel bags. Tucked between the stairs on the left side of the bunk bed and the cement wall is a bicycle. A pot plant is barely in frame, and the floor appears to be bare cement, the doors and wall a temporary wood and clear plastic.
Underneath the image is a 4chan post reading:
'Steven T. Johnson, 27, works in social media advertising and lives in Hollywood. He spends most of his days using things he does not own.
'He takes a ride-share service to get to the gym; he does not own a car. At the gym, he rents a locker. He uses the gym’s laundry service because he does not own a washing machine. Johnson doesn’t even have an apartment, actually. He rents a bed in a large room with other people who rent beds, for nights, weeks or months at a time. All the residents share a kitchen and bathrooms. Johnson also rents a desk at WeWork, a coworking space. And he says the only clothes he owns are two versions of the same outfit.
‘Johnson says he owns so little that he has even been able to get rid of his backpack. “I gave that up two months ago,” he says. He says that for him, this lifestyle isn’t cumbersome or confusing. “That’s what’s great,” he says. “When you don’t own thing, you don’t have to keep track of them. You just show up.” He pays $1,400 a month to rent a bunk and an additional $600 a month to rent a desk to work at.’
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
Sounds like homelesness but taxed and with extra steps.
Never will I except owning nothing. If that becomes the only reality I will upgrade myself to domestic terrorist.
With a borrowed gun?
This is probably the type of guy who assaults an FBI field office with his buddy’s brad nailer.
I believe the word you’re looking for is “accept.” I agree with the rest of your premise.
Unfortunately it has to stay, so your comment makes sense
I own six things if you count all of my books as one thing. You will have to burn me with my books before you take them away from me.
I assume this dude is some kind of extreme minimalist or something. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Minimalist for 2k/month sounds kinda fucked up tho :D
At that point, convert a van or something. It’d be a better move
Maybe there is, though.
As someone growing up with a hoarder, I have felt this compulsion strongly.
I have adversely nuked my files on my PC before because it’s lower stakes than actual items. I desire full oversight and to know the purpose of everything to know whether or not it is needed, and I constantly fall far short.
I made the stupid decision to use a low-capacity SSD as my boot drive along with the decision that “This is my boot drive, nothing except my OS should be installed here.”, and now, years later, I can’t update my graphics card driver because it’s full.
Is this not just a meme lol why would you assume this is real
deleted by creator
I’m not sure millennials are 27 anymore.
I think that would be right around the cut off, most sources I’m seeing online have millenials going up to and including 1996, which would be this supposed person’s likely year of birth
As a 27 year old who is technically a millennial according to most sources, I agree.
I think for Zillennials it depends on their upbringing. People from poorer families will most likely identify more with Millennials while rich kids would be more strongly tied to Gen Z due to the technological gap.
Can confirm. My friends and I all right at that Zillenial transition point, and friends from well-off families identify with and behave more like Gen-Z while other friends from less affluent families fall more in line with Millennials.
I can confirm, right at the edge of millennial and turning 27 this year
27 is zillenial not millenial.
Green text = bullshit.
Sarcasm*
Paying $2000 a month to be homeless lmao
Only 2k to be a child again? Sweet
If I have to live like this somebody is gonna die that’s a fucking promise. I refuse.
If I have to live like this *somebody is gonna die
Is it you?
Yes
Itll be somebody like me. I snore like a small rhino. No one would put up with me in this situation.
Also, this is not living.
