Except when they want to port the game from GameCube to Wii, so rather than modify the game, they just mirror the entire game to make everything gay so the motion controls can be straight.
I was so ticked when they changed him to be right handed just “because that’s what most people are”
I played Twilight Princess on Wii and GameCube, and it was pretty fucking cool to feel like I was swinging the master sword. I probably would have just switched hands if they hadn’t. It would have been an adjustment, but I would have gotten there.
But I can understand not wanting to create a barrier to entry.
But I can understand not wanting to create a barrier to entry.
Unless it’s left-handed people. They can get fucked.
They can get fucked all the way to the settings menu where the option to mirror it back to lefty-mode is hiding
Wait, is that really a thing?
Unless I’m misremembering, yeah. I no longer have my Wii set up to check
Wii version was mirror / right hand only, it’s the HD version on the Wii U that had the default as left-handed map and the Master Mode using the right-handed mirror map, IINM.
Adding a left handed mode was too complex I guess. Minecraft was able to do it.
Or just letting everyone use their left hand, it’s not like waving around a wiimote requires super fine motor skills
Iirc there was a lot of fpv aiming for arrows, slingshot, and claw grabbing. I would have been frustrated trying to aim with my left hand, but then I suppose I could have switched for those sequences if needed.
Even better, maybe they find a way to allow the player to choose which universe they wanted to play in, left or right.
That part wouldn’t be an issue, but swapping which hands have your action buttons vs control stick would be a mess for a while, lol.
I’m left-handed and played through twilight princess on the wii multiple times before I found out that link was changed to be right handed. It really doesn’t effect the gameplay at all to swing the sword with a different hand than the one on-screen - I didn’t even notice it was different.
Does this mean you moved link with the movement stick in your right hand? Honestly, that’s the crazier part to me.
Aside of some 8BitDo thing I’ve never heard of, I think the Wii’s controller might be the only one you can do this with.
Kinda. I only have 2 fingers on my right hand, so I usually sat down and held the nunchuk between my thighs while moving the joystick with my palm.
Ohhh, okay. That makes sense.
Oh yeah, him. Totally. Fuck him, and his right hand.
Link, from The Legend of Zelda
You don’t fuck your right hand?
I do often, but I’m not him.
My right hand is operating the mouse.
Talking about things that exist makes me uncomfortable! Stop pushing your ideology on me!
Those evil left-handers, always pushing their sinister agenda!
Sums up so much about society right now ^
Dev: “This man is ripped in the apocalypse”
Gamers: “Yeah that makes sense, you’d probably be more out and about”Dev: “This woman is ripped in the apocalypse”
Gamers: “what the actual fuck”Not even ripped or anything. Just “doesn’t wear makeup and get hair done professionally during a zombie apocalypse” seems to piss gamergate jackasses off.
The opening of Gears Of War 3 where the humans live on some boats subsisting on vegetable patches and the male soldiers are still built like they eat an entire cow a day raw.
gamers: this is a war against right handed people by the sinister lefties
I etymologically saw what you did there
This is a war against the dexterous right handed people, by the sinister lefties!
There, now it’s even better.
This is supposed to be a role playing game. I’m not left handed how are they expecting me to be immersed in this game? It totally breaks the realism!
Some people just want the complain like they’re on a crusade for justice when they’re just bitching cause they can’t figure out how to be content with life (mean don’t get me wrong things suck but have to find out own peace too and things don’t suck cause media is inclusive). Unfortunately they’re loud and obnoxious and for some reason we don’t know how to mute them as a society.
Unsure why I ended up replying to you specifically but it’s here now.
Don’t worry. When we start the war against you guys it won’t be via video games.
Can we stop giving attention to these people? The vast, vast, vast majority of gamers are not piece of shit bigots. There are probably Ike a few thousand of these bigots in total but they spend their entire life online and report on each other as if they are a majority and make a ton of online noise.
Ignoring them clearly hasn’t worked, because too many who actually pull the levers pay attention regardless.
These bigots don’t have impact on games sales, but they have real life impact as voters or become mass shooters.
They constantly review bomb, so I think it probably does have some impact on sales sometimes.
I am pan and I have played a few games where a character is revealed as gay and got the same response from me because it just felt forced. The token gay person. Or, in at least one, most of the characters are gay and it’s not strictly about gay stuff. They’re just there for brownie points and tend to also be incredibly shallow characters who are only defined as “gay.” I don’t feel that is representative of anything but some empty corporate suit saying “we want your money, fag.”
Zagreus in Hades is obviously Bi (or Pan) the whole time and no one cared, why, because it’s not forced, I think it’s kinda expected actually, so it just feels right. Same with Lucifer in the Lucifer TV show.
And sometimes a character is just gay and you find out in notes or something and it’s like, neat, and then you move on.
On the other hand you have a random trans character in Hogwarts Legacy. It’s a magical world, you have potions and spells to change not only your gender but you can even be a tiny mouse or a massive dragon, what’s the point of that?!
You had me in the first half. She was there, but she didn’t force you to listen to her story. She just existed. Like, sure, she was clocky; that’s just how it is for girls who transition later in life. She mentions that she’s been on a journey, and if you, the player, choose the appropriate dialogue option, she’ll tell you her story, which, oddly enough, might be the less realistic thing. There are a lot of trans people who would prefer not to share that, because there are a lot of not-trans people who will change their tune and use information about a person who no longer exists to hurt the person they’ve transitioned into.
Zagreus (and Melinoë presumably) on the other hand are not obviously pan until you, the player, start pursuing same-sex relationships. Given that Hades and II are based on Greek mythology, it might come as no surprise, but it’s not like there’s an aspect of facial or body shape that obviously identifies someone as being lesbian/gay/bi/pan like there tend to be for trans people (especially femmes and women, ESPECIALLY in a world without cosmetic surgery, hand-wavey magic aside). She didn’t hurt you, so be happy that some people did feel seen and move on with your life.
Don’t get me wrong, maybe I came out too strong, she doesn’t bother me, and if it makes someone happy then I’m happy. I just think it’s bad storytelling that’s all.
I don’t like it when fiction makes a minority “special” like only queer people being protagonists who can save the world, because it still singles them out. It doesn’t matter if it’s something positive. We are all one, nobody is special or less than a person because they were born with this or that characteristic.
Remember that quote from Rick and Morty? “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV.”? Add “nobody is special” and we are cooking.
Then the epic protagonist can save the world even if they aren’t really special, and still happen to be queer. Not because they are queer, not despite being queer. They are simply who they are. And they are someone who saves the world.
gosh, fucking finally people are stopping to get so polarized on the topic.
I hope, this way of thought would become more popular asap, so the studios would finally realise that they should pay the fucking scenarists and let them just do their job, instead of coming up with stupid requests amid the working process about making character be x, no matter how much it breaks the initial idea, making a piece of media into some kind of caricature, misrepresenting both lgbtq+ and the talent of a given scenarist, making just a mediocre product for the first, while also polarizing bigots even more, cuz obviously, “this game sucks cuz they spent all ihe money on them damn gays”.
Fucking corpos…
Ah fucking damit, sorry for rambling
Is it actually “gamers” saying this?
I’d say a vocal minority do. A common form this takes is resentment over perceived “shoe-horning” of “politics” into games that “leads to bad games”.
The thibly-veiled bigotry becomes clear when the shortcomings of the game are attributed primarily to the diversity representation, rather than anything else, with the assumption that it would have been better without it. “The writing is bad because they wanted to make a political statement above all else.”
This becomes especially apparent when you consider that those same people would never blame bad writing in a game on making all the characters in a game heterosexual.
Some people are just straight-up haters, no veil necessary.
I can sympathize a little with people who had a romantic expectation for a character that they might have fantasized or self-inserted and feel disappointed or even betrayed by having their expectations subverted, especially if they had a strong attachment, as in franchise characters. But they also need to get over the fact that not everything has to be made for them. 95% of whats out there is already made for them.
Ironically, most of the people I hear engaged in gamergate/anti gamergate noise don’t actually play games. Maybe they did back in school, but now they’d rather listen to some podcast or like twitter posts for whatever team they chose.
That’s funny, in my bubble I’ve only heard references to gamergate recently from game developers in podcasts. I wouldn’t imagine non-gamers know what it is these days.
Huh, I did a quick search and interestingly, there are a couple mainstream news articles referencing gamergate re: recent anti-DEI in games. Lol I guess games really are part of mainstream culture now.
Steve Bannon basically used gamergate as a fascist breeding ground, and a model for our modern political discourse.
I’m not even kidding. Just because you weren’t aware of it, doesn’t make it unimportant.
Edit: sources:
https://www.axios.com/2022/10/20/gamergate-right-online-harassment-joan-donovan-meme-wars
The people I know are nerds, but don’t play video games. They play ttrpgs or use to play video games and read comics. I brought up how EFAP seems to have a one sided feud with RLM to a friend of mine and he got really defensive of EFAP. This was a little longer ago, but when Battlefield included female models for the player, it caused a bit of a stupid uproar online that the ttrpg friends mocked. I think BF is a bad franchise, so I only commented that they should also include a bear option for the USSR. This was a reference to Woktek, not the more recent meme.
I got tired of hanging out with both groups who were more interested in complaining about shit then talking about what they do enjoy and stopped reaching out to them.
Gamers, posters, gaming press people, also idiots…
It covers an awful lot of people.,
When you’re fine with taking a quote from a subset of a group and applying it to the group itself, you can make any group of a large enough size say anything!
“”““gamers””“”
It’s really complicated, and on per-game basis
nobody talked much about gay romances in baldur’s gate
but every bigot whined about Dragon Age Veilguard
tbh, i think lgbtq+ topic is just being used by stu#ios as a scapegoat, so the people would whine about it rather than how shallow the game is with or without “them gays”.
Yeah, people are mad about execs forcing shitty decisions into games, and are being told it’s “because woke”. When in reality it’s just that shitty checkmark-ticking games tend to have superficial progressive elements because some marketing surveys or the podcast the ceo heard last night said that people want a gay character.
Some (sadly kinda many) then also take that and start complaining about everything they perceive as woke even in otherwise fine games, when it doesn’t affect the game quality at all. Like the oblivion remaster renaming gender to body type (or sth similar).
thus we may derive that
lgtv+ is a psyop
:D
btw, i fucking hate that oblivion remaster wasn’t hated into the pits of hell. One of the most lazy, mediocre, UE asset store and aigen remasters i’ve ever seen.
What can i say, corpos played up their marketing game, it’s high time users learn to see their bullshit for what it is. Consume conciously, kids
execs forcing shitty decisions into games, and are being told it’s “because woke”. When in reality it’s just that shitty checkmark-ticking games tend to have superficial progressive elements because some marketing surveys or the podcast the ceo heard last night said that people want a gay character.
Is this even true? This always came off as gamergate BS propaganda to me.
I’m a straight, white, cis male, and I want more gay (and other underrepresented) characters in games. The more variety of experiences available to me to interact with, the better.
No one except the people involved can say for sure. But general game design of so many AAA games feels like checkbox ticking with no actual vision, and those games are also usually the ones that superficially pretend to be woke. Those games do also often sell pretty decently, because often the dev teams are still competent and can make something fun enough that is also safe enough.
It’s the same as with movies where they just get too big to fail. And then when a movie completely misses the mark, the “anti-woke” will blame it on whatever they think is woke. The vast majority of people I’ve seen talk about it said that the new ghostbusters sucked, but only the “anti-woke” crowd blamed it on the main cast being women. (I don’t watch enough movies, especially the bland safe blockbusters, to have an example i watched, so if this was some kind of right wing reviewbombing tell me - but most of my social media is fairly left biased so I’m assuming it was actually just kinda bad)
And it’s not like they’re wrong, most people will either like or not be opposed to some more diversity/some renaming of a menu option. Myself included.
And to be clear, I’m not saying that this superficial wokeness is making the games worse (or that it’s a bad thing - it’s a sign that the status quo is shifting a bit, and much like the overton window will help push it further). Just that the bland checkbox ticking games will almost always have these elements because it certainly won’t hurt sales. So it’s easy for grifters to say that’s the reason, and if they like a game that has any (superficial or not) wokeness they will ignore it or make up some reason why it’s ok here.
(Also to clarify since I sometimes refer to “anti-woke” perspective here so it might come off differently: I don’t use the term woke as a negative)
Not the majority, I’d wager
Since gamergate “gamers” in this context stands for the most vocal and bigoted group of people.
It’s breaking my immersion! /s
“Or, we could make it a woman”
“Um, ok, wait, we need to think about this”
Gets man bro protagonists in the last 100 games:
Gets 1 female protagonist: WOKE GIRLBOSS BS!
One female protagonist that’s written exactly like a male and is basically just a skin swap*
Funny how men can’t write female characters but that’s still the woman’s fault lol
Some people play games and some people live vicariously thru games. And alot of men in the US have been conditioned to expect to be the victims of violence or social ridicule if they’re suspected of being gay. I don’t agree with their discomfort but I understand why it happens.
Alright, but I have yet to see a game character that’s left handed though
Just checked in game and he actually does swing with his left. Never noticed until now. Apparently newer games retconned him to be right handed
They changed it because of the Wii controls.
Swinging with your left doesn’t necessarily mean you’re left handed.
I’m right handed, but I play sports like baseball and golf left handed.
That’s called cross dominate.
I think mine is partially because the vision in my right eye is worse than my left, because I shoot left handed too (clay pigeons)
I’m the opposite but I think it’s mostly because much of the tools being mass produced are mostly made for right handed people. Computer mice, golf clubs, guitars, catcher mitts, etc. It’s not impossible to find left handed versions of these things, but you usually have to go out of your way to get them and most people don’t teach these skills in a left handed mindset.
It’s not a retcon if it’s a different person. Most games introduce a new Link. We’re currently at twelve unique Links.
Yeah, Link surprised me, he’s left handed in most games before BOTW, which is neat.
He is right handed in the Wii games with motion controls for the benefit of the majority of right handed gamers, but left handed everywhere else.
Twilight Princess was crossgen between GameCube and Wii. The two games are mirror images of each other because it made it simpler to port the game than mirroring the character animations alone.
Weird that they never bothered to swap him back to left handed for the Switch games, though.
Isometric Link (Link’s Awakening remake) remains left handed at least, but Switch era 3D Link is right handed.
I’ll just chalk that up to the Switch games wanting to switch (heh) it up a bit, with his primary color association also switching from green to blue. Maybe if they decide to make an older style 3D Zelda again, they’ll go back to left handed Link.
Weird that they never bothered to swap him back to left handed for the Switch games, though
They are different characters. OoT Link has always been a leftie, BotW Link has always been a rightie
Almost all of the Links between different games are different characters, but they were all still left handed until the Wii era. That includes Wind Waker Link, Twilight Princess (GC) Link, Oracle Link, and even NES OG Link who are all distinct from OoT.
BotW Link is right handed either because they forgot he was originally left handed before the Wii era, or because it was a deliberate choice to break convention from older games (like also having BotW link wear blue instead of green).
I wouldn’t be surprised by either possibility, just given that BotW deliberately had relatively few series veterans working on it.
They probably made BotW Link a rightie so that when using a bow, our 3rd person view can see the bow while keeping him on the left side of the screen, as is convention in most games (not Zelda games but all games)
Weird that they never bothered to swap him back to left handed for the Switch games, though.
It’s not even that they “didn’t swap him back”.
Twilight Princess for the Wii U uses the original left handed link from the GameCube version (it swaps to the right handed version of the game in the harder difficulty).
Link is left handed in all of the 3DS entries, Hyrule Warriors, and Smash 4. In Smash Ultimate, both “Young” and “Toon” Link are left-handed while “Link” is right handed (he’s based off of BOTW in this entry).
In The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom, you primarily play as Zelda, but Link is left-handed when he appears.
It was a very deliberate decision to make BOTW/TOTK Link right handed, and it’s not as simple as “not changing it back”.
Here’s a couple random ones, outside of the obvious (Link from The Legend of Zelda).
Some of the character models in Warcraft 3 were left-handed, like the Footman and the Grunt. The weird implication in this is that in the Warcraft universe, left-handed is the default, because while the common Footmen were lefties, the heroic Paladin was right-handed.
Some of the party members from early Final Fantasy games were left-handed: Leila and Leon from FF2, and Kain and Palom from FF4. Because of the 2D sprites it didn’t show very well during battles, but it did affect the way their equipment was arranged in the menus.
Artorias from the Dark Souls 1 DLC is left handed.
The necro in Diablo 4 too.
Doomguy
He holds the pistol with his left but holds the shotgun right-handed:
He probably holds the weapon with stronger kickback with his dominant hand.
Conclusion: he’s right-handed but trained to hold the pistol with his left
Or he was trained to hold the shotgun with the right (for example because of which side the spent shells come out of)
As a leftie, shooting rifles in the military was not terribly fun because of the ejection port being on the right. Luckily the rifle was well enough designed that I didn’t have any casings grazing my cheek.
Yep. Got one shell stuck on the right inside of the elbow. Not fun!
This can be explained by him being left eye dominant.
That response is from loud mouths
Shoving gay characters down our throats!
Go on…
Wheelbarrows of dicks
„But what‘s the plot reason for them being gay? I don‘t mind gay people being in something, but if there‘s not a reason for it, then it‘s just pandering!“
Frankly I would much rather a character be gay but it have no relevance whatsoever, it’s just a random fact about them
But also what another poster said, make it come up organically, don’t just force it in for diversity points. Makes it feel cheap and tokenized
I remember YMS calling out Onward for advertising having a gay character, and it was just a single scene with a single character who mentioned having a same sex partner at home. Something that could be easily edited out for “the international market”.
Having a casual mention that a character is gay is fine, but if it’s suppose to be Casual Representation, it should be casually represented. The same emphasis that hetro relationships should be used. Not more.
If it’s a story about the Queer Experience, then it would be expected to have more representation though.
You mean, the same reason why anybody’s gay? They’re born that way?
What do they expect? “A wizard turned him gay.”
Somehow gay returned.
This is where the line gets blurry tho. On one hand, yeah, bigots exist, but on the other hand, I could see this being a clumsy attempt at complaining about poor writing.
Like, I’m pretty sure I said something like this when Rowling said Dumbledore was gay. I’m not cishet, amd it still feels like she retconned that in for points, especially now that we’re seeing exactly what she thinks about LGBT stuff.
Oh she absolutely did. Just like she did the “i never said Hermione *wasn’t * Black” thing, despite having described her cheeks as “pink” on more than one occasion.
But that’s not what the people i was quoting mean. They’re doing the “straight, white, cis, man is the default, and anything deviating from that needs an explicit in-universe explanation”.
There was a thing that did the rounds a while back which was variations on “what race are you? White or political?”, “what’s your sexuality? Straight or political?”, etc.
it’s basically that. Straight guy? Fine. Gay guy? “But what’s the *reason *he’s gay? How is it relevant to the plot?”
No, I get what you mean. I just see a lot of clumsy getting lumped in with malevolent on a regular basis, and want to call attention to it.
Edit: Like the people who say your point about Hermione is racist because black people can blush too, when that’s not what you’re trying to say at all.
If you don’t need a plot reason for a male character to have a wife, then you don’t need a plot reason for a male character to have a husband.
Note the quotation marks
Hmmm, your quotation marks are rendering as commas on my client. I thought you just put commas at the start for some random reason.
In languages like German the opening quotes start at the bottom „…“ and closing quotes go to the top. In Russian they can look like «this».
Just someone typing on English with a keyboard not directly mapped to the keyboard you are used to.
This is what your comment looks like for me on Voyager:
Okay. Note the quotation marks.
I don’t think sexual orientation needs a reason, it’s just there.
Me neither. That’s why i put it in quotes to make it clear i was aping stupid objections.
