• strobel@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Could you please provide those stats? Skimming thru the Wikipedia article on pit bulls, it seems there’s no clear evidence that pit bulls are significantly more dangerous that other dog breeds of similar size.

    • jose1324@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You mean those weird ass stats where they even agree that evidence is based off of looking at a picture where they admit they barely know it half the time?

      Those statistics?

      • NotSoCoolWhip@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Why is it controversial to point out that pitbulls bite more because they were bred for it?

        My Australian shepherd herds things, never taught them that. Retrievers retrieve things. Pitbulls maul things. That’s what they were all bred for.

        Now if you really want to do some research look up how much money is spent on pro - Pitbull lobbying and misinformation

    • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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      1 year ago

      No they aren’t. They’re only a problem when not raised right. They DO need a firmer hand in training like literally every strong breed, which not all owners realise and take into account, but neglecting that isn’t their fault, it’s on the bad owners.

      • Square Singer@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        You pointed out the solution: nobody should be allowed to keeep a dog unless they can prove they know how to correctly train and keep a dog. If the owners are the problem, the owners should be held accountable.

          • Square Singer@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Well, as long as we cannot be sure whether a dog owner has done their duty and properly trained the dog, we can never be sure whether a stranger’s dog is well trained or a purpously-trained killing machine. Or anything in between.

            • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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              1 year ago

              By that logic, we should ban cars, motorcycles, boats, aeroplanes, horses and almost all other dogs

              Good luck with that…

              • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Come to think about that: to operate a car, motorcycle, boat or aeroplane you need to get a license, proving that you know what you are doing. Depending on vehicle and jurisdiction, you might even need to re-take tests frequently. All of these vehicles (in most jurisdictions) require frequent inspections and if they fail these inspections, you are no longer allowed to operate them.

                Also, there are very stringent laws on how you are allowed to operate these vehicles, with really harsh fines for violations of these laws.

                Looks like your stance on dog ownership is much more hardcore than mine, but I could get behind that.

            • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Were you personally attacked by a pit bull, or was someone who’s close to you attacked? Your stance comes across as really paranoid, like you have a reason to fear dogs.

              • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                I was attacked multiple times by dogs and I don’t care what race they are. All dogs in public should be on a leash and muzzled.

                And every time I was attacked I was just walking down the road and some random dog without leash or muzzle just attacked and bit me. And every time the owner was like “The dog has never done anything like that”. That totally makes everything better. I always felt so honored that I was the first one that dog hurt. I still got scars on my shoulder from that one time and that was almost 20 years ago.

                I don’t think breed-based laws are a good idea, because they make it look like every other breed is not dangerous.

                I think, all dogs should be leashed and muzzled in public and all owners should have to get a license that includes a test and yearly inspections first.

                • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s extremely unfortunate. Of the many many dogs I’ve come across, big & small, including a few strays that I was unwise to approach so casually, I’ve never been bitten or attacked. Perhaps I was merely fortunate. Knowing what you’ve gone through, your stance is understandable, although I don’t entirely agree with it. Yes, all dogs in public should be leashed, although I find it unnecessary to put a muzzle on all but the largest dogs who have the actual strength to cause serious harm. I definitely don’t agree with any sort of licensing or routine inspection for dog owners, but I get why you would think this is necessary… perhaps its best if we simply agree to disagree.

                  • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    The issue is that for every good dog owner who trains their dog, puts it on a leash in public, picks up the dog shit and makes sure their dog can’t cause trouble, there is also some idiot who got a dog on a whim, mistreats it and doesn’t train it at all.

                    And most often the people who don’t care for training their dog are also the people who don’t care to secure the dog in public places.

                    I know that’s a generalisation and there probably are some counter examples. But a “don’t care” attitude generally runs through everything a person does.

                    And having a dog is a multiplier of what trouble that “don’t care” attitude can cause.

                    That’s why I am for licensing/inspections. For someone who does care it probably won’t change much. They already go to a training course with their dog. Just give them a license for completing the training/make that training mandatory if you don’t want to call it a license.

                    Any reasonable dog owner will be at vet in regular intervals anyway. Just let the vet not only check whether the dog is physically fit, but also if it obeys it’s owner and if it shows signs of abuse. And make that checkup mandatory. It’s better for the dogs anyway if they get their health checked regularly.

                    I see why you think it’s not necessary, because you might be the kind of dog owner who cares and then it’s just additional hassle. But, as I said, there are many who don’t care, even if in your bubble (and I don’t mean this word negatively) everyone cares for their dogs.

                • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Man, I have to wonder, what are your thoughts on gun control? I mean the yearly dog inspector is great but like, what about social services? You think there is room in the budget to provide care for the less fortunate?

                  • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Social services don’t pay for your dog’s vet. Why should it pay for other dog expenses?

                    Regarding gun control, I luckily live in a country with decent gun control laws. So our death rate due to gun violence in peace time doesn’t resemble the civilian casulty rate in some war zones.

          • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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            1 year ago

            Ah yes… the person with more than 25 years of experience must be wrong! Ya’ll are a trip.

            • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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              1 year ago

              Did you even read the article? He left a poorly socialised dog untethered and unattended.

              That would stil be extremely irresponsible dog ownership if he had been the undisputed king of dog trainers for 800 years.

              • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Thus why the source should be questioned… it’s TMZ, all trashy celebrity gossip. I doubt this incident even happened.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              There are doctors with 25 years of experience that still fuck up constantly and get away with it.

              Argument from authority is a fallacy for a reason.

              • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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                1 year ago

                The discussion is literally that there are bad owners and those owners are solely responsible for the pit bulls reputation. I’m proving that wrong by showing an “expert” in the field… If an expert in the field cannot do it… Then why would a lay person be able to?

                This isn’t argument from authority. You just like screaming random shit to shut down discussions because you don’t have any better evidence against the argument.

        • nBodyProblem@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Cesar Milan is considered a hack by almost every reputable dog trainer, and his methods conflict with every modern study I have seen on how to effectively train a dog.

            • nBodyProblem@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I mean, you can Google it and find countless sources, if you really care they are readily available within seconds.

              The Tl;dr is that his methods are based in dominance theory. Dominance theory has been widely debunked and the methods that arose from it are widely considered to exacerbate fear and aggression related issues in dogs. Caesar’s celebrity status has contributed to its persistence in the popular imagination.

    • DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      That’s like saying driving a sports car is more dangerous than a regular car. In some sense, yes it is, but at the same time it’s not the cars fault that the driver irresponsible.

      • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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        1 year ago

        This is only a valid comparison of the sports car could break out of the garage and hunt people down on its own will.

          • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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            1 year ago

            Actually thinking about it they might have a valid point… tesla FSD and all being what it is.

        • DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Is that common in your country? I can’t remember last time I heard about a dog attack here

            • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Where is all this pit bull hate coming from? They’re not anymore dangerous to people than other breeds of similar size, yet they get such a disproportionate amount of blame. I’m not sure why.

              • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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                1 year ago

                Statistics… you can look up bite/ attack/ fatality statistics and pit bulls dominate the leaderboards.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Since 2016, at least 65 different breeds and mixed breeds have been involved in fatal dog attacks in the U.S. including: Akita, Boxer, Doberman Pinscher, German Shepherd, Great Dane, Husky, Labrador Retriever, Mastiff, Pitbull-Type, Rottweiler, and many others.

                  The risk of being fatally attacked by a dog (of any breed) given an average of 33 fatal attacks every year in the U.S. and a population of 330,000,000. According to CDC data, fatal dog attacks are exceedingly rare - lightning strikes cause more fatalities (~36/year) than dogs.

                  https://www.fataldogattacks.org/

                  So even if pit bulls are the “dominant” killers, it’s the “dominant” one out of 33 deaths. Which could be 3.

                  • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    bite/ attack/ fatality

                    Yay strawman! I state the above… And then you focus on only one thing! Go argue somewhere else moron. Congrats on ONLY caring about dead people… And not the ones that were maimed/severely hurt.

                    It’s funny because pulling from another source that’s PRO pitbull… https://thepitbullcenter.com/pitbull-attack-statistics/

                    1. In 2020, Pit Bulls caused 33 deaths of adults aged over 20 years. (Pawsome Advice)

                    So is it 33 deaths total per year for all dogs and pitbulls do 3 of those 33? or 33 attributed to pit bulls period… and there’s only a handful additional deaths per year?

                    Oh wait, they answer my question too!

                    14 Pit Bulls caused 22 of 28 adult deaths (79%) and 16 (57%) people killed were females. (Dog Bite Law)

                    So ~80% of dog fatalities dealing with adults humans were pitbulls… Sounds a bit lopsided since 80% of all dogs in the USA aren’t pitbulls now… doesn’t it?

      • NotSoCoolWhip@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No, it’s like saying garbage trucks haul more garbage than normal vehicles. Because while people may transport trash in their vehicles, dump trucks were created for the specific purpose of hauling trash.