So every time they opposed Republican attempts to install fascism but failed because they didn’t have the power, because we didn’t vote for them to enable them to control policy, that’s their fault? Seriously? People keep saying Democrats have a messaging problem and I agree, but no one ever seems to acknowledge that the reason Republicans have the advantage in messaging is because they’ve got dedicated media organizations tipping the scales in their favor and bombarding the public with pro-Republican disinformation. No private, independent organization has done the same for Democrats, and it would be illegal for them to spend campaign money to create one.
So please, tell me what they could have done differently with the information they had at the time.
I don’t exactly see where Republicans are failing at instituting their fascism right now. They’re successful in every single state in which Republicans hold power, where one election away from completely losing our democracy. So, yes, what other choice do we have than to rely on Democrats in power to stop them? We have no other choice.
Would they be successful if we were consistently getting out the vote to deny them majority control? Would they be successful if we were actively participating in primaries to put forward more progressive candidates? How do you justify blaming Democrats for not doing enough to block Republicans when voters keep enabling Republican majorities? How are we not reaping the consequences of our voting patterns?
I’m going to give you a real example as someone who lives in West Virginia. Let’s take the 2020 primary season.
I tried to vote for Bernie Sanders. I did vote for him in the end, but my vote did not matter because by the time the primary had already rolled around to my state, Bernie Sanders has dropped out of the race. That can only happen because we don’t have same day primaries all throughout the country. We allow for this fundraising attrition to let the capitalists pick who our candidate is.
So, whatever, we still have a chance at a Democrat, so I go to vote on Election Day in the general election. Here’s the problem. I live in Ruby Red West Virginia, so my vote actually does not matter. I can’t swing things in Biden’s favor. I sure did vote for him, but it’s not like my vote was goning to matter. It doesn’t matter how many Republicans vote because there are always going to be enough of them to a voted for Trump. So where did I get any say in the Democratic process in this entire exchange?
But much like one of the other posters in this thread, not you, you’ve been quite pleasant, by the way, he just doesn’t see states like West Virginia as a mattering whatsoever. Democrats don’t see West Virginia as a mattering whatsoever.
And then we wonder why so many people feel disenfranchised and apathetic. It feels like there’s absolutely nothing I can do to affect the country based on my geography.
Is it because there aren’t as many Democrats voting in West Virginia, or because Democrats have given up voting in West Virginia? It’s a chicken-or-the-egg problem: if West Virginia is a reliably Republican-voting state, should the DNC spend money to sway elections there when they could focus more on swing states?
Now, a case can (and should) be made that the DNC should focus more on grassroots level elections. They should do what Republicans did and focus more on local and regional elections rather than primarily national level elections. Obama bucked the DNC’s policies and ran a fifty-state campaign, and that helped him win. But – and I feel this is where the disconnect probably lies – the DNC is not the Democratic Party. The DNC is the fundraising and electoral strategy arm of the Democratic Party. Disagreeing with their electoral strategies should not put the blame on the entire Democratic Party for not doing their part to block the rise of fascism.
The DNC doesn’t have unlimited funds. For some odd reason, they don’t typically get quite as much money from corporate interests as Republicans. They don’t have as many dedicated donors as Republicans. Because Democrats still believe in a government for the people and by the people, which means taxing people who have more to help people who have less. So they have to decide how to best spend that money for the greatest effect. If that isn’t enough for you to go out and vote, even though you live in a state dominated by Republicans, then I don’t know what to tell you. If you’re not willing to do your part, I’m not willing to listen to your complaints about how not enough is being done for you.
That’s my point, though, I specifically said in that long string of text that I did go out and vote. I will go out and vote, but it sucks that it doesn’t matter.
Because I think you fundamentally are misunderstanding what my problems with the Democrats are. I think they don’t have any grassroots presence because they are so beholden to the capitalist class. So of course places like West Virginia, which objectively holds zero monetary value to Democrats, is going to be left behind.
West Virginia in particular was a strong Union state. Used to go blue every single election cycle. But that changed when Democrats adopted the new way view in the '90s.
So when both parties refuse to stand by the unions in any meaningful capacity, they’re going to revert back to the culture war.
WV is a great example of how Democrats have failed their constituency.
Democratic losses are entirely at the hand of moderate neoliberal policy.
I agree, the Democrats need to change and return to progressive goals. But the initial comment I was replying to suggested that Democratic voters have no reason to go vote, or at least that’s how I was reading it. If I misunderstood I apologize, but that’s exactly the sort of sentiment that plays into right-wing electoral plans. Discouraging people from voting is their goal, particularly in Democratic strongholds. We need to do everything we can to resist that, not feed into it.
No, I specifically said that the Democratic vote does not matter in West Virginia. Unfortunately, our entire democracy hinges on a few purple states to get actual leadership in charge.
So every time they opposed Republican attempts to install fascism but failed because they didn’t have the power, because we didn’t vote for them to enable them to control policy, that’s their fault? Seriously? People keep saying Democrats have a messaging problem and I agree, but no one ever seems to acknowledge that the reason Republicans have the advantage in messaging is because they’ve got dedicated media organizations tipping the scales in their favor and bombarding the public with pro-Republican disinformation. No private, independent organization has done the same for Democrats, and it would be illegal for them to spend campaign money to create one.
So please, tell me what they could have done differently with the information they had at the time.
I don’t exactly see where Republicans are failing at instituting their fascism right now. They’re successful in every single state in which Republicans hold power, where one election away from completely losing our democracy. So, yes, what other choice do we have than to rely on Democrats in power to stop them? We have no other choice.
Would they be successful if we were consistently getting out the vote to deny them majority control? Would they be successful if we were actively participating in primaries to put forward more progressive candidates? How do you justify blaming Democrats for not doing enough to block Republicans when voters keep enabling Republican majorities? How are we not reaping the consequences of our voting patterns?
I’m going to give you a real example as someone who lives in West Virginia. Let’s take the 2020 primary season.
I tried to vote for Bernie Sanders. I did vote for him in the end, but my vote did not matter because by the time the primary had already rolled around to my state, Bernie Sanders has dropped out of the race. That can only happen because we don’t have same day primaries all throughout the country. We allow for this fundraising attrition to let the capitalists pick who our candidate is.
So, whatever, we still have a chance at a Democrat, so I go to vote on Election Day in the general election. Here’s the problem. I live in Ruby Red West Virginia, so my vote actually does not matter. I can’t swing things in Biden’s favor. I sure did vote for him, but it’s not like my vote was goning to matter. It doesn’t matter how many Republicans vote because there are always going to be enough of them to a voted for Trump. So where did I get any say in the Democratic process in this entire exchange?
But much like one of the other posters in this thread, not you, you’ve been quite pleasant, by the way, he just doesn’t see states like West Virginia as a mattering whatsoever. Democrats don’t see West Virginia as a mattering whatsoever.
And then we wonder why so many people feel disenfranchised and apathetic. It feels like there’s absolutely nothing I can do to affect the country based on my geography.
Is it because there aren’t as many Democrats voting in West Virginia, or because Democrats have given up voting in West Virginia? It’s a chicken-or-the-egg problem: if West Virginia is a reliably Republican-voting state, should the DNC spend money to sway elections there when they could focus more on swing states?
Now, a case can (and should) be made that the DNC should focus more on grassroots level elections. They should do what Republicans did and focus more on local and regional elections rather than primarily national level elections. Obama bucked the DNC’s policies and ran a fifty-state campaign, and that helped him win. But – and I feel this is where the disconnect probably lies – the DNC is not the Democratic Party. The DNC is the fundraising and electoral strategy arm of the Democratic Party. Disagreeing with their electoral strategies should not put the blame on the entire Democratic Party for not doing their part to block the rise of fascism.
The DNC doesn’t have unlimited funds. For some odd reason, they don’t typically get quite as much money from corporate interests as Republicans. They don’t have as many dedicated donors as Republicans. Because Democrats still believe in a government for the people and by the people, which means taxing people who have more to help people who have less. So they have to decide how to best spend that money for the greatest effect. If that isn’t enough for you to go out and vote, even though you live in a state dominated by Republicans, then I don’t know what to tell you. If you’re not willing to do your part, I’m not willing to listen to your complaints about how not enough is being done for you.
That’s my point, though, I specifically said in that long string of text that I did go out and vote. I will go out and vote, but it sucks that it doesn’t matter.
Because I think you fundamentally are misunderstanding what my problems with the Democrats are. I think they don’t have any grassroots presence because they are so beholden to the capitalist class. So of course places like West Virginia, which objectively holds zero monetary value to Democrats, is going to be left behind.
West Virginia in particular was a strong Union state. Used to go blue every single election cycle. But that changed when Democrats adopted the new way view in the '90s.
So when both parties refuse to stand by the unions in any meaningful capacity, they’re going to revert back to the culture war.
WV is a great example of how Democrats have failed their constituency.
Democratic losses are entirely at the hand of moderate neoliberal policy.
I agree, the Democrats need to change and return to progressive goals. But the initial comment I was replying to suggested that Democratic voters have no reason to go vote, or at least that’s how I was reading it. If I misunderstood I apologize, but that’s exactly the sort of sentiment that plays into right-wing electoral plans. Discouraging people from voting is their goal, particularly in Democratic strongholds. We need to do everything we can to resist that, not feed into it.
No, I specifically said that the Democratic vote does not matter in West Virginia. Unfortunately, our entire democracy hinges on a few purple states to get actual leadership in charge.