I am atheist but I do enjoy religious spaces. There’s a stillness that I like, gives you the opportunity to just be in the moment. You don’t get many spaces like that for atheist folk (libraries are the closest I can think of). I sing a lot of choral music so often find myself in churches. I like the structure of a service and the ceremonial aspect, I just don’t believe in the content itself.
definitely relate to this. i attend church regularly despite not being religious because my family is, and though i don’t believe in the christian god at least, i do appreciate and like the environment, community, and lessons being taught. it’s very peaceful and makes you feel like you’re part of something a bit bigger, even if that’s likely just because there’s a few hundred people at any given service.
Absolutely not.
No, but I also recognize that I may be wrong. To be honest, arrogant atheists bother me even more than arrogant theists.
To me, the whole point is that any answer is impossible to prove. Trying to definitively, factually state that no kind of higher power exists is irrational, and thoroughly undermines any claim of logic or reason. The stubborn, uncompromising kind of atheist frequently describes themselves as a logical, rational person, so I expect them to see this problem.
No. It took me a lot of hard effort to get here with my upbringing. I think parts of it are fine and for the most part regular people practice in ways that aren’t harmful to others, but (at least in the US), the entire structure of it is deeply harmful and results in good, decent folk taking actions or supporting others who do real harm.
Not really.
I like witchy stuff but only if its considerable to placebos. A rose quartz bracelet, for example, might not be scientifically going to attract love and good fortune—but its cute and makes me happy, so who knows, THAT might help.
If I had to choose a religion though, I’d probably go with one of those polytheist religions because ever since I was a kid and first went to a church camp, I decided that a singular “God” scares the shit out of me. I basically considered “God” too overpowered and decided that wasn’t for me.
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Nuh uh. “Losing My Religion” by R.E.M. still feels surreal and sad for my heart.
I was raised particularly southern, like three denomination deep Protestant, (that only existed because some people argued if you should speak in tongues in church or if that would be “distracting from the lawd”.) And my family participated in the activities so I was forced to attend EVERY SUNDAY AND WEDNESDAY NIGHT until I was 18.
I don’t have a lot of good things to say about it. After I realized I only tried to follow it cause of where I was born (and what measure of truth is that?) I started to address each moral question as it came and settle it myself based off of morality I could stomach.
A lack of belief is easy when I’ve seen nothing to believe, in fact I used to feel alone in it. Eventually I realized I cannot fake it, and what reason would there be, what diety would accept it?
Hell yeah! I’m Hindu and I love it.
I loved mythology as a child and devoured every myth from every culture I could get my hands on. Later this evolved into exploration of religion. I’ve read religious books of many religions - Hindu epics and scriptures, Buddhist scriptures, Jain scriptures, Quran, Bible, Guru Granth Sahib, and the Avesta - I enjoyed them all, and my parents encouraged this exploration.
I ultimately came back to Hinduism because a lot of the stuff in it made sense and resonated with me, and let me adopt a mindset that works well for letting me process and ascribe meaning to the various experiences and phenomenon of life.
Hinduism is a collection of hundreds of belief-systems - a lot of which are uber chill, some literally cult-like, some polticised and weaponised for oppression, and some that are intense but harmless. You can choose what makes sense to you - I personally follow a pretty chill belief system, but it also makes me seem not serious about it.
Oooh and it is fun in the community - festivals, temples, ceremonies, and various cultural events -there are so many of these, and each of them very fun depending on the people involved in the celebration.
Jai Sri Ram!
See, this is what I legitimately can’t comprehend about religion, you yourself call it mythology. Being a member of a religion requires that you essentially pretend that you’re convinced of this stuff. It’s not just dangerous, it’s outright irresponsible.
Hmm, I think “pretend you’re convinced of this stuff” is a long-winded way to say “believe” - belief is an inherent, basic feeling in humans - you believe your loved ones when they say they love you, you believe someone when they ask you to trust you, you believe someone when they claim something about themselves, your dog believes you will come back even though you have disappeared suddenly when you go to work, people believe love to be more than a chemical reaction inside your brain - all of these things happen without you knowing 100% sure what the exact situation is, without you knowing a numerical value for all the stats, or what will exactly happen. Sure, you could base your thinking around probabilities based only on what you have observed or simply just believe things. I think belief is one of the things that seperates setience from plain sapience.
It’s probably best to seperate a fanatic from a general religious person - I use religion to frame and try make sense of things that I can’t know by pure observation or those that don’t have a straightforward answer - what happens after death, what is purpose, why is there suffering, etc. - in an attempt to look for something other than “it’s all meaningless, everyone and everything happened by pure chance”, plus there are a lot of philosophies and stories that make for good thought experiments.
I can’t comprehend someone literally shopping around and picking how they’re going to view… reality. It’s just reality
It’s also probably best to shed the narrow “Religion = mindless god worship” view - people are complex, as are cultures. Not all religions push aggressively for blind faith and discarding of logic in face of reality (many do, yes, and I’m sure that has shaped your view on religion). In a way, you can think of religion to be positive nihilism for many - ascribing meaning to the meaningless or unexplained.
just a heads up, i’m not sure if the person you’re replying to seems very… interested in a genuine discussion. i’m another comment in this thread they said:
I hate that people willfully delude themselves into believing things that they clearly know to not be true, on some level, and then argue wholeheartedly for their actual truthfulness. It’s the most nonsensical practice I can imagine someone engaging in and I struggle to see people who do so as willful, rational human beings.
which doesn’t exactly seem super open minded imo. but, for the record, i really like how you’ve explained yourself here- as someone who is curious about religion and spirituality but hasn’t found anything to specifically believe in, it’s really nice to see how others reconcile things like “shopping” for a view of the world.
do you think you could elaborate a bit on why you settled into hinduism specifically? i’m not very educated on it, but love hearing others experiences and beliefs :)
Aw that’s a bummer. But based on their full comment, they don’t seem narrow-minded about it just a bit… frustrated? Oh well I can empathise.
Haha thanks for liking it - I’m grateful I got a chance to explore without people being down my throat about it.
Regarding my choice for Hinduism - I guess it all started when I wondered about what happened after death. I grew out of the idea of eternal heaven or hell pretty quickly - started to dislike it a lot, infact - because eternity of consequences for a jiffy of a lifetime seemed too inflexible - so this eliminated the Abrahamic religions, Zoroastrianism, and some ideologies of Hinduism that believed in eternal heaven/hell.
I really liked the concept of reincarnation and karma. It made sense to me. You live a life, and the circumstances and options of your next life are decided based on the deeds of that life - you repeat this cycle until you feel like your soul has experienced all it needs to, and break out of the cycle, complete and one with the world. So the options left were Greek/Roman, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikh.
I didn’t like the Greek gods they seemed more like mortals with power than divine beings. I dropped Sikhism bc it’s monotheistic and I like the idea of multiple gods for everything. Following Jainism sincerely was a bit too extreme for me.
There were other factors like the way each religion described morality, mortal priorities, and ideal way to lead life - I liked some and disliked some, but I mostly avoided religions that were too rigid and inflexible on how daily life was supposed to be lived.
Ultimately, It ended up between Hinduism and Buddhism. I picked Hinduism because of its scriptures - Gita, Mahabharata, and the Upanishads - there’s a looot more but these influenced me a lot. And also because of the flexibility it offered - I could pick a belief system, or make up my own belief system as long as it was in line with the core beliefs of Hinduism, and you could philosophize enough to justify your beliefs (There’s even a school of thought, that believes in the gods but actively chooses to ignore them lol, and it is considered a valid Hindu ideology).
While I identify as Hindu, I haven’t picked a definite school of thought to follow - am currently following a blend of different schools of thought interweaved with my own logic, and haven’t yet solidified my beliefs - I still have a lot of reading left to do.
Ahh, I think I rambled a bit too long, thanks for hearing me out :)
If you’re interested, the short story The Egg by Andy Weir is a fun read - it is by no means a descriptor for any Hindu beliefs, but the concepts and vibes of reincarnation and one-ness of everyone/everything are pretty similar.
thanks for sharing your experience :) i’ve been vaguely interested in pursuing investigation into a religion or belief system for a couple years now, but it can be difficult to find a place to start with a lot of them. there’s so much out there to learn about so many, i think i’ve just gotten a bit paralyzed and ended up ignoring the part of me that really is interested in learning more about different religions.
The ones you’ve listed (Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, Hinduism, and Greek/Roman) are all actually ones i’ve been particularly interested in, but another hurdle i’ve had for most of them is the language barrier. there’s just a LOT of new terms and names to learn and remember- did you find that you had a similar experience just starting out? was just more exposure and reading what helped get over that little hump?
No problem, thanks for hearing me out - It’s the first time I’ve been asked about it on the net and it was a fun thing to write.
Ahhh I really understand your difficulty and hesitance - there’s so much confusion on where to start and how to read, and also so many translations butcher the work and frame everything in a western perspective. I had a similar experience, yeah.
I have a suggestion that sounds silly but I think is very helpful for this: Start with kids books. Pick up a religious book for kids that tells the stories and the teachings - they highlight the main events, and convey the themes and intents of that religion in a simple, easy-to-digest manner. Then read a book for young adults - they lay out the deeper parts of the religion, and grislier parts of the myths and teachings. After doing that, you become familiar with the names and places and stories, and reading the big books with all the depth of that religion becomes a tad easier. Also, you learn how much fanaticism is present in the religion from the subtext.
Oooh and I recommend listening to the lectures by some of the gurus and religious teachers online - there’s loads of them, and some are crap, so just filter them out as soon as you hear something stupid or sexist or any other crap. Religious books are a big chore sometimes, while these lectures are usually pretty easy-to-digest, and tell you a lot about the currently held beliefs of a particular religion.
After that, I think it’s just something that becomes easier as you read more of it. It does become a bore time to time, and for Buddhism, Jainism, and Hinduism, you’ll have to read works by different authors if you want to get some actual info, as there are so many versions of a scripture and so many translations of it.
thanks for the advice- the part about reading kids books is actually genius, i would’ve never thought of it! i’ll definitely look into trying my hands on some, i think that’d really help with just laying down the groundwork of understanding the religion as a whole. on the upside though of having so much content to get through, at least there’ll always be more to learn!
thanks again for the advice!
Yes, I’m Christian. I am also queer and staunchly opposed to American bible fascism. An unfortunate number of people seem to believe that these traits can’t coexist in one person without hypocrisy or denial.
Myself, I enjoy how my religious beliefs and my queer identity support and bolster one another. 😁
love to see queer christian’s here! so many people, especially LGBT folks (understandably to some degree) harbour so much hate for christianity as a whole, when in my opinion it’s crazy to generalize everyone in an entire religion as “bad people.”
may i ask what denomination you follow, if it’s a specific one?
I’m bisexual, but left the church after attending seminary.
So maybe I kinda count? heh.
I’m not part of a specific denomination atm, having come from a vaguely evangelical background*, and my childhood religious education was woefully lacking in explanation of the different denominations and schisms. I want to try attending a variety of affirming, universalist churches to broaden my experience and figure out where I belong. I’ve heard good things online about Episcopal churches but I’ve never attended one.
*My parents were a Catholic/Protestant couple and made some odd decisions, like explicitly telling me we were attending such and such church but we’re not members of it, but then never really educating me in any other denomination’s teachings.
me too! im catholic and lesbian (maybe nonbinary too??)
It’s complicated. I am not religious, and have considered myself to be an atheist for most of my life so far. I also have strong negative feelings towards most mainstream religions, because of their long-standing hate towards people like me and my loved ones. I also grew up in a Presbyterian church and honestly, fuck everything about calvinist-derived theology.
But, it is hard to shake some amount of magical thinking. And honestly, if it brings joy, and isn’t harming people around you, why not? So lately I’ve been leaning into it a bit, in a vaguely neopagan direction. I definitely don’t take any of it literally, but if a sprinkle of it helps keep me from descending into despondency, I will shrug and go with it. It isn’t rational, but I am a human, not a robot.
I have also considered finding a local unitarian universalist church or something along those lines. Somewhere that is chill with me as I am. The last few years have been isolating and I think I need more community in my life to thrive.
Every religious community organisation that I have had first hand personal experience with has been involved in a myriad of verified claims of abuse Including: sexual, financial, and elder. My confidence in these institutions is now nonexistent. And I find myself misidentifying with them completely. I think I am now de facto apathetically agnostic.
Not even a little bit. I’m still in awe of the universe, aware of my own insignificance, and terrified yet resigned to my eventual death though!
I’ve found myself surrounded by a lot of spiritual people lately and I’ve used it as an excuse to try and get in touch with that side of myself. It’s been a very interesting experience. There’s a lot of it I still don’t understand but a lot of it is just nice vibes? Like I don’t ascribe any meaning to the moon or when I’m born or male and female sexual energies or being actually connected to the souls of anyone else but sometimes it’s nice to recognize when things are just unexplainable by conventional means and to use a common language to recognize it. To speak in soft or uncertain terms as a way to acknowledge something you can’t quite put your finger on, only to have it create a wonderful connecting conversation with another human is honestly kind of nice. And it makes approaching certain subjects a little bit more accessible because it’s not rigorous and scientific but more human centered and amorphous.
i don’t have much to add, but just wanted to say i really like this comment. i think you captured my feelings towards spirituality as a non religious but curious person- there’s just soft nice feeling that can be hard to explain but definitely keeps me coming back to investigate more. being able to lighten up, and look at the world in a less rigorous, always science focused way is just nice.
I mean, I have beliefs, just not religious ones. The only religions that I could ever vibe with were Wicca and Discordianism, and in time I realized that was because the only forces that I could ever accept having power over me are nature and chaos.
Hail Eris!
Fnord to you my friend
Yes, very much. I think it would be impossible for me not to be religious. If I wasn’t Anglican I’d be Buddhist or Baháʼí.
Agnostic atheist here. If you twisted my arm to choose something I’d make a religion out of this story [http://galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html](“The Egg”)
Other than that, I don’t have any reason to believe its anything other than nothing, non-existence after we die.
I was looking for someone who labeled themselves in both axes of religious belief: theism vs. atheism and gnosticism vs. agnosticism.
For those who don’t know, the idea is very roughly that theism is the axis that defines belief in higher powers/spirituality, and gnosticism is the axis about whether the beliefs are knowable/proveable.
So, for example:
- A gnostic theist might believe in god and believe they have proof of its existence.
- An agnostic theist might believe in spirituality, but that organized religion is just based on other people’s ideas about spirituality, not the divine word.
- An agnostic atheist might not believe in spirituality, but that it’s impossible to prove that spirituality doesn’t exist, either.
- A gnostic atheist might believe there is nothing spiritual and that the origins of all “spirituality” can be explained by anthropology, history, or human psychology, so it’s all provably false.
I fall into the gnostic atheist camp, myself. A minority within a minority. ;)
Thank you for the detailed breakdown… also a gnostic atheist and I rarely find someone who knows wtf I’m referring to, lol.
This breakdown helps, I guess I’m also a gnostic atheist. I’ve also read “The Egg” and found it an interesting story.
