• creamed_eels@toast.ooo
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    10 months ago

    This is what is meant when people talk about the patriarchy and toxic masculinity hurting everyone. It’s not “all men are bad!” But rather the idea that men aren’t allowed by society to have feelings other than anger, or are unable to be raped, or need to just “man up” when they are suffering-It’s all bullshit, and so harmful to men and boys. I’m so sorry for what you went through, and I hope you were able to find peace.

    • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Eh, no. A lot of this crap is also being pushed by the latest wave of feminists who are of the “all men are rapists” type. I recall seeing this video a few years back about a guy trying to get into a meeting for those left after male suicide. Guy’s brother committed suicide, he wanted, needed to talk about this and was denied entry by a bunch of feminists who literally cheered that his brother had killed himself.

      Everybody deserves equal treatment, men, women, or whatever you identify as. In the past few years though, there had been a clear push against white men because they must all be racist or something? It’s weird.

      Either way, this is not just “toxic masculinity”, way too easy to again push it on that.

      • Ricky Rigatoni@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        It is still toxic masculinity, people just aren’t prepared to acknowledge the massive role women play in propagating it.

        • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          So the belief by neo-feminists that all men are rapists and undeserving of sympathy is due to all men’s toxic personality? Am I getting that right? Seems like victim blaming.

          • TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Calling it toxic masculinity isn’t victim blaming. Men are victims to toxic masculinity every day and it isn’t because they have a “toxic personality”, it’s because the “masculine” image and roles in society they are expected to uphold are toxic.

            The opinions of “neo feminists” are not what is typically held true either. Very few people think that way.

            • SwingingTheLamp
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              10 months ago

              “Toxic masculinity” is absolute dog shit as a name for it, and I’m sure the parent commenter is reacting to that.

              People use the adjective in plenty of adjective-noun pairs as an intensifier all the time. The ones railing against “deviant homosexuals” are not distinguishing them from the vanilla ones, nor do people who decry “evil pedophiles” recognize and support a non-evil variety. Thus, a lot of people hear the name “toxic masculinity” the same way, as if it is denouncing masculinity as a whole.

            • GhostFence@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Calling it toxic masculinity implies that none of this would be happening if patriarchy didn’t exist. That is horribly wrong.

          • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            “Toxic masculinity” doesn’t imply “masculinity is inherently toxic”, but rather it refers to behaviors that are generally considered masculine, and are being described as toxic. You can talk about toxic femininity as well. A lot of people do, in fact, they just call it “being Karens”.

      • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
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        10 months ago

        As all the popular things, feminism was pretty fucking great up until a certain point. Then it became a parody of itself.

        I’m on the side of every woman still struggling in a man-made world. For every “feminist” of the vengeful variety I have nothing but disgust.

        • onion@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          Those types of misandrist feminists have always existed

            • Syrc@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I mean, there still is justice to be sought. It’s just that now what’s left is REALLY hard to change (women’s rights outside the first world, prejudices, internalized misogyny etc.), and so an increasingly big amount of feminists focus on bringing men down because that’s easier.

    • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I think the toxic masculinity is another subject aside from domestic relationships involving man on man violence and how it’s given a pass (especially on tv) . Beavis butthead /jackass type stuff. At least that is more in context of what I’ve seen it meant to be towards.

      Domestic abuse however should be considered regardless of gender. It would be better to drop the gender out of it entirely when discussing it. We should acknowledge anyone can be a victim or even an abuser. it’s actually very common that even both are abusers but that often doesn’t get addressed other than being ‘one cancels out the other’ or ‘you’re both bad for eachother’.

    • GhostFence@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      There is a problem here that your post is making obvious, but no one is seeing. Every form of discrimination against men is being described by feminists as “patriarchy.” It seems when all you have is a hammer, everything in front of you becomes a nail. The giant blowback feminism is getting is because of this one-word-fits-all aspect of their ideology. In this case, the dangerously deluded idea that if you just get rid of Patriarchy, male disposability will just go away and so will discrimination against men.

      It won’t, because the common denominator is humans.

      This is why you never hear feminists talk about the actual things that drive women to attack men without provocation. If they can’t pin it on the Patriarchy they don’t want to discuss it. Literally this excuses women from being held responsible for their actions… because when a woman does something like that, it’s just her, but when a man does it, it’s reflective of a bigger problem, aka “men as a class”. Women don’t have bigger influences that make them think they can get away with stuff unless you can blame it on the Patriarchy and not the simple fact that women can be just as evil as men and in fact can circle their wagons around an offender just like the Patriarchy can for miscreant men. Just look at how Sharon Osbourne and an entire crowd of women circled their wagons around Catherine Kieu. I can provide the video if you want. But that never matters to feminists - the idea that women have their own framework outside of “Patriarchy” by which they treat each other and men wrong is heresy to them. Patriarchy as the cause of all gender wrongs is as myopic as it is popular.

      Yet it’s hard to even discuss this because talking about it draws the equally fascist elements of the men’s rights movement. And so myopia becomes the new 20/20.

    • Wanderer@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      That just sounds like deflection.

      Men only shelter got shut down by me because feminists protested.

      Do better women.