Death from “old age” (talking about those 85+)is actually death from heart disease (number 1), cancer (2), alzheimers (3), or stroke (4).
Heart disease at end of life can be a drawn out pain with the heart not strong enough and it causes fluid to back into the lungs, the lead to death from pneumonia or some other breathing issue like COPD or some shit. It is pain for a few years with diminished quality of life and most days are spent just fighting to hang on. Those that die of a heart attack are the lucky ones if it is quick enough, but still pain and terror for several minutes at least.
Those that die from cancers at this age, well… it’s cancer. Try and find anyone’s story of having a peaceful time dieing from cancer when they are old.
The alzheimers deaths can take many forms. Anything from alzheimers dimentia and your brain deteriorating until it literally forgets how to function basic bodily functions like breathing; or it could be something like lewd body, where you are hallucinating most of the time trying to cope with a world that is literally changing in front of you by the minute with memories of your past blurred with imagination and nightmares that you can no longer suppress.
Then you have stroke patients. Most of these people have had multiple strokes by this age if this is how they are going out. This is where from the first strokes they have lost entire sections of their brain and lost major functions of things. For some it is as simple as loosing their speech and no longer able to physically talk. Others have a quite opposite loss, and lose their language. They talk all day and it is nothing but nonsense. Both groups are locked from communicating in meaningful ways and frustrated eternally. Therapy may restore some levels of communication but it all depends on several factors. Then there are the strokes that take out your hearing, vision, sections of memory, perceptions, you name it. Some of these people even suffer from a basilar stroke and are stuck with the ever terrifying “locked in” syndrome.
Of all of these, sure, you might want to hang of for a bit. But after your one person you have spent your life with, the one person who understands you, and the one person you have been fighting through all your daily pain for- they are going to die. Then why fight for more pain? Just go out with dignity and do it together. You can make an event out of it and let those around you know how good it has been and give people some closure.
The fact that I’m getting down-voted means I guess people feel that I’m criticizing the legalization of assisted suicide.
It’s possible to believe that assisted suicide should be legal and also believe that it’s incredibly bleak that people are so hopeless. Remember when this started we were talking about how it’s not humane to force someone to say drown own their own liquefying lungs or something. Now our society is apparently going to a place where people would rather quit living than go on after their spouse has passed. How did we get here?
But it’s not about hopelessness. It’s about coming to terms with having lived a full life and being fully ready for a dignified end of it. My girlfriend works in a Dutch nursing home and has had the privilege of assisting a couple of euthanasia tracts for the elderly, and she says it’s one of the most magnificent things she was able to do for someone, emotionally speaking. People are very clear about the reasons (which have to be not only discussed, but thoroughly vetted by 2 doctors) and do not make this decision lightly. These is a very high level of clear communication between the family, doctors and patients about all relevant aspects for everyone involved.
I think when you and I reach that age, we will have very different thoughts on life and death.
You are assuming that living without their spouse is a better option. If they are already old then what is the point of living a few more years if most of it will be in mourning?
You raise a valid point. The social fabric in our society is ripped in such a way that old people often feel “left over” whereas in other societies they remain an integral part and can still have meaningful interactions, where they feel able to provide to society and be respected for it.
The combination of ever getting older thanks to modern medicine, but at the same time being ever irrelevant, seems more of a curse than a blessing.
The social fabric in our society is ripped in such a way that old people often feel “left over” whereas in other societies they remain an integral part and can still have meaningful interactions, where they feel able to provide to society and be respected for it.
Western Societies have now been bombarded by incessant neoliberal propaganda for decades. A lot of that propaganda takes the divide and conquer approach to make cutbacks to social security and workers’ rights palatable to the public. One day it’s the unemployed who are at fault for cutbacks to pensions, the next day it’s the pensioners who are too expensive to finance proper unemployment benefits. This has been going on and on for decades, with ever changing marginalised groups being played against each other. Meanwhile boundless egotism and individualism has been lauded as the ultimate life goal of “freedom”.
The result of this is a society of egomaniacs who are only looking out for themselves and hate arbitrary people for being in the arbitrary drawer they have been stuffed into by the currently prevalent propaganda.
Wow this thing is getting real bleak real fast.
Death from “old age” (talking about those 85+)is actually death from heart disease (number 1), cancer (2), alzheimers (3), or stroke (4).
Heart disease at end of life can be a drawn out pain with the heart not strong enough and it causes fluid to back into the lungs, the lead to death from pneumonia or some other breathing issue like COPD or some shit. It is pain for a few years with diminished quality of life and most days are spent just fighting to hang on. Those that die of a heart attack are the lucky ones if it is quick enough, but still pain and terror for several minutes at least.
Those that die from cancers at this age, well… it’s cancer. Try and find anyone’s story of having a peaceful time dieing from cancer when they are old.
The alzheimers deaths can take many forms. Anything from alzheimers dimentia and your brain deteriorating until it literally forgets how to function basic bodily functions like breathing; or it could be something like lewd body, where you are hallucinating most of the time trying to cope with a world that is literally changing in front of you by the minute with memories of your past blurred with imagination and nightmares that you can no longer suppress.
Then you have stroke patients. Most of these people have had multiple strokes by this age if this is how they are going out. This is where from the first strokes they have lost entire sections of their brain and lost major functions of things. For some it is as simple as loosing their speech and no longer able to physically talk. Others have a quite opposite loss, and lose their language. They talk all day and it is nothing but nonsense. Both groups are locked from communicating in meaningful ways and frustrated eternally. Therapy may restore some levels of communication but it all depends on several factors. Then there are the strokes that take out your hearing, vision, sections of memory, perceptions, you name it. Some of these people even suffer from a basilar stroke and are stuck with the ever terrifying “locked in” syndrome.
Of all of these, sure, you might want to hang of for a bit. But after your one person you have spent your life with, the one person who understands you, and the one person you have been fighting through all your daily pain for- they are going to die. Then why fight for more pain? Just go out with dignity and do it together. You can make an event out of it and let those around you know how good it has been and give people some closure.
what is so bleak about two people exercising their autonomy to choose when and how they die together?
As an older guy myself I assure you that this solution to end your life before misery and decay make you rot alive looks very, very desirable.
The fact that I’m getting down-voted means I guess people feel that I’m criticizing the legalization of assisted suicide.
It’s possible to believe that assisted suicide should be legal and also believe that it’s incredibly bleak that people are so hopeless. Remember when this started we were talking about how it’s not humane to force someone to say drown own their own liquefying lungs or something. Now our society is apparently going to a place where people would rather quit living than go on after their spouse has passed. How did we get here?
But it’s not about hopelessness. It’s about coming to terms with having lived a full life and being fully ready for a dignified end of it. My girlfriend works in a Dutch nursing home and has had the privilege of assisting a couple of euthanasia tracts for the elderly, and she says it’s one of the most magnificent things she was able to do for someone, emotionally speaking. People are very clear about the reasons (which have to be not only discussed, but thoroughly vetted by 2 doctors) and do not make this decision lightly. These is a very high level of clear communication between the family, doctors and patients about all relevant aspects for everyone involved.
I think when you and I reach that age, we will have very different thoughts on life and death.
You are assuming that living without their spouse is a better option. If they are already old then what is the point of living a few more years if most of it will be in mourning?
You raise a valid point. The social fabric in our society is ripped in such a way that old people often feel “left over” whereas in other societies they remain an integral part and can still have meaningful interactions, where they feel able to provide to society and be respected for it.
The combination of ever getting older thanks to modern medicine, but at the same time being ever irrelevant, seems more of a curse than a blessing.
Western Societies have now been bombarded by incessant neoliberal propaganda for decades. A lot of that propaganda takes the divide and conquer approach to make cutbacks to social security and workers’ rights palatable to the public. One day it’s the unemployed who are at fault for cutbacks to pensions, the next day it’s the pensioners who are too expensive to finance proper unemployment benefits. This has been going on and on for decades, with ever changing marginalised groups being played against each other. Meanwhile boundless egotism and individualism has been lauded as the ultimate life goal of “freedom”.
The result of this is a society of egomaniacs who are only looking out for themselves and hate arbitrary people for being in the arbitrary drawer they have been stuffed into by the currently prevalent propaganda.