Yep they keep saying lesser of two evils while the options get more and more evil despite claiming “incremental progress”. Moderates are completely disconnected from reality or they’re just too afraid to actually push for something better.
The problem is with Trump, particularly, there’s good reason to be afraid.
“We want to punish the democrats for supporting Israel, so we are going to let Trump win”
GOP proceeds to double down on oppressive wars, no improvement for Gaza. Further, you get a government full of leaders that, in the wake of losing in 2020, openly pondered ways of just rigging the election so they don’t have to get votes to win anymore. You had laws proposed in GOP states to declare the legislature could pick whatever electors they wanted ignoring their voters. You had people running for non-partisan election administration positions promising they’ll make sure Republicans win, no matter what. They actively tried to send fake electors that particular cycle, even without any legal backing.
So, in at least one scenario, congratulations, you successfully admonished Biden for his misbehavior, and now, we have at least as bad misbehavior, and maybe some unwinding of democracy to make sure we never get to influence foreign policy ever again.
The problem is with Trump, particularly, there’s good reason to be afraid.
I agree. The threat of Trump seems like a bigger risk to me than the risks introduced by stopping the supply of arms to Israel or vowing to veto any attempts to block a rail strike. But apparently moderates and Joe Biden would prefer to avoid those risks and instead gamble they can win the general election anyway. But what do I know? I’m not part of the majority voting bloc so I’m not responsible for what happens.
I’m not part of the majority voting bloc so I’m not responsible for what happens.
I mean, to the extent any voter is “responsible” for what happens, if you abstain from voting or explicitly vote for a candidate you know is going to lose to make a point, then you have some responsibility for the result, and thus it better be a result you reasonably expect to live with. If you think Trump isn’t any worse than Biden, then voting for the candidate you like best, their chances be damned makes sense. If you sincerely think Trump is a risk that can’t be tolerated, then when general election comes around, you unfortunately should probably vote for Biden.
I personally think Trump is too problematic to risk his victory on principle. Any other presidential contest I can recall, sure, punish the mainstream by voting third party, it’s not like any of the presidential candidates were that much worse than the others. If somehow Haley became the republican frontrunner, by all means, I might not prefer her, but I don’t have a dire sense of dread about her. She wouldn’t be a better choice than Biden on Gaza, but at least your vote was probably clearly seen to be one he forfeited because of his stance. It’s just a matter of how important it is to vote against a particular candidate as to whether you have the comfortable option of voting for your favorite versus voting against an unfavored candidate.
I mean, to the extent any voter is “responsible” for what happens, if you abstain from voting or explicitly vote for a candidate you know is going to lose to make a point, then you have some responsibility for the result
The vote of a majority of people in the country will have no impact on the result of the election whatsoever. Most of us don’t live in the sliver of electorally competitive states.
If you live in Georgia, you should be deeply pondering the very real consequences of a protest vote, but this idea that every voter is responsible is just not how our system works.
the world isnt black and white and one evil can’t justify another, even greater evil. its a convenient excuse, but its good to notice oppression has the habit of creating more of the twisted people you speak of.
The entire point of Israel’s genocide in the end is to perpetuate war and conflict so rightwing nutjobs like Netanyahu can retain power by killing people and claiming they are keeping people safe instead of doing actual leadership work and passing effective policy to save people.
In that sense Israel’s genocide makes the entire world less safe by empowering strongman leaders like this.
It’s almost as though some people are incapable of holding two thought in their head at the same time: the RNC is absolutely fascist and pro-genocide, and Biden is doing the wrong thing in this specific situation and should be criticized for it. If all criticism of a president must stop, you live in a dictatorship. This one just happens to be a two party dictatorship where one awful party is kept from criticism by the threat of the other being even worse.
This is a total non-sequitur, you don’t seem to understand the conversation you’re involved in and nothing about your other responses suggests there might be an intelligent conversation to be had were it corrected.
How does that even make sense? GOP being worse doesn’t mean that Biden is doing a great job. He’s bloody well FUNDING and ARMING the genocidal IDF. That there is a worse option doesn’t make Biden’s actions in any way “good”.
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So, point for point, the only one Israel hasn’t done in Gaza is “e”. But to be clear, you don’t have to hit all 5 to be a genocide, just one is enough. Russia is hitting all 5 in Ukraine.
Besides the fact that people are asking Biden to do something that directly hurts US foreign policy interests…
Why would enabling the genocide of Palestinians benefit US foreign policy?
Also, isn’t our current beef with Yemen and the 96% drop off in Suez traffic a direct result of Israel’s War in Gaza? Isn’t keeping the Suez open to traffic pursuant to US foreign policy?
Do they REALLY think that the Republican party is on the side of stopping brown people dying?
I think that America is a Fascist Nation enabling the will of some of the most deranged and brutal regimes in human history. Between the Israelis, the Saudis, the Indian Hinduvistas, and the Duterte/Marcos cartel in the Philippians, we’ve got - bare minimum - four Fascist regional governments that we are falling over ourselves to help perpetuate atrocities of nightmarish proportions.
Republicans and Democrats seem to be in alignment in supporting all of these horrifying campaigns of mass slaughter. If this is the future of American politics, our government deserves to fail and I pray that our failed state is wiped from the face of the Earth.
There is no evidence that hard-line policies reduce terrorism or even discourage political extremists. It is a given that negotiation with both types of political extremist should be undertaken, with terrorists requiring very special handling. Examples of two scenarios of airplane hijackings are given with the advice that the terrorist will be a catalyst for tragedy if a misstep is made in negotiations. This article does not present solutions, but raises awareness of the difficulties involved and the need for help, even in the realm of the exotic, along with qualified special consultants being sought to offer advice.
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If preventing a genocide is hurting “foreign policy interests”, then those interests are shite.
exactly what i was thinking.
if this is the lesser of two evils, you probably have reached evil long ago.
Yep they keep saying lesser of two evils while the options get more and more evil despite claiming “incremental progress”. Moderates are completely disconnected from reality or they’re just too afraid to actually push for something better.
The problem is with Trump, particularly, there’s good reason to be afraid.
“We want to punish the democrats for supporting Israel, so we are going to let Trump win”
GOP proceeds to double down on oppressive wars, no improvement for Gaza. Further, you get a government full of leaders that, in the wake of losing in 2020, openly pondered ways of just rigging the election so they don’t have to get votes to win anymore. You had laws proposed in GOP states to declare the legislature could pick whatever electors they wanted ignoring their voters. You had people running for non-partisan election administration positions promising they’ll make sure Republicans win, no matter what. They actively tried to send fake electors that particular cycle, even without any legal backing.
So, in at least one scenario, congratulations, you successfully admonished Biden for his misbehavior, and now, we have at least as bad misbehavior, and maybe some unwinding of democracy to make sure we never get to influence foreign policy ever again.
I agree. The threat of Trump seems like a bigger risk to me than the risks introduced by stopping the supply of arms to Israel or vowing to veto any attempts to block a rail strike. But apparently moderates and Joe Biden would prefer to avoid those risks and instead gamble they can win the general election anyway. But what do I know? I’m not part of the majority voting bloc so I’m not responsible for what happens.
I mean, to the extent any voter is “responsible” for what happens, if you abstain from voting or explicitly vote for a candidate you know is going to lose to make a point, then you have some responsibility for the result, and thus it better be a result you reasonably expect to live with. If you think Trump isn’t any worse than Biden, then voting for the candidate you like best, their chances be damned makes sense. If you sincerely think Trump is a risk that can’t be tolerated, then when general election comes around, you unfortunately should probably vote for Biden.
I personally think Trump is too problematic to risk his victory on principle. Any other presidential contest I can recall, sure, punish the mainstream by voting third party, it’s not like any of the presidential candidates were that much worse than the others. If somehow Haley became the republican frontrunner, by all means, I might not prefer her, but I don’t have a dire sense of dread about her. She wouldn’t be a better choice than Biden on Gaza, but at least your vote was probably clearly seen to be one he forfeited because of his stance. It’s just a matter of how important it is to vote against a particular candidate as to whether you have the comfortable option of voting for your favorite versus voting against an unfavored candidate.
The vote of a majority of people in the country will have no impact on the result of the election whatsoever. Most of us don’t live in the sliver of electorally competitive states.
If you live in Georgia, you should be deeply pondering the very real consequences of a protest vote, but this idea that every voter is responsible is just not how our system works.
Sure. But the bulk of the responsibility rests on the moderates as they are the majority voting bloc.
I’ll accept my grain of responsibility as someone from an, apparently irrelevant, minority wing.
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the world isnt black and white and one evil can’t justify another, even greater evil. its a convenient excuse, but its good to notice oppression has the habit of creating more of the twisted people you speak of.
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motherfucker is tryna justify genocide dude, thats not a hill to die on.
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i’m sure you are sadder for the couple israeli dead by hamas than the ones killed by the idf themselves.
and i’m guessing the tens of thousands dead and many more expelled by us bombs are not people to you.
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Supporting Israel’s genocide of Palestinians is directly harming the US’ foreign policy interests.
The entire point of Israel’s genocide in the end is to perpetuate war and conflict so rightwing nutjobs like Netanyahu can retain power by killing people and claiming they are keeping people safe instead of doing actual leadership work and passing effective policy to save people.
In that sense Israel’s genocide makes the entire world less safe by empowering strongman leaders like this.
The foreign policy of most on the right is basically “Turn it all to glass.” Which is terrifying.
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Are you seriously incapable of viewing Biden’s actions outside of a lens related to the upcoming election?
It’s almost as though some people are incapable of holding two thought in their head at the same time: the RNC is absolutely fascist and pro-genocide, and Biden is doing the wrong thing in this specific situation and should be criticized for it. If all criticism of a president must stop, you live in a dictatorship. This one just happens to be a two party dictatorship where one awful party is kept from criticism by the threat of the other being even worse.
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This is a total non-sequitur, you don’t seem to understand the conversation you’re involved in and nothing about your other responses suggests there might be an intelligent conversation to be had were it corrected.
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How does that even make sense? GOP being worse doesn’t mean that Biden is doing a great job. He’s bloody well FUNDING and ARMING the genocidal IDF. That there is a worse option doesn’t make Biden’s actions in any way “good”.
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Removed for rule 3, attack the ideas, not the person.
The UN Convention on Genocide defines it like this:
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
"a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So, point for point, the only one Israel hasn’t done in Gaza is “e”. But to be clear, you don’t have to hit all 5 to be a genocide, just one is enough. Russia is hitting all 5 in Ukraine.
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A repressed people cannot commit genocide against their repressors.
See:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner’s_slave_rebellion
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I’d hardly call what the Palestinians do “oppression”, they aren’t in a position to oppress anyone.
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Why would enabling the genocide of Palestinians benefit US foreign policy?
Also, isn’t our current beef with Yemen and the 96% drop off in Suez traffic a direct result of Israel’s War in Gaza? Isn’t keeping the Suez open to traffic pursuant to US foreign policy?
I think that America is a Fascist Nation enabling the will of some of the most deranged and brutal regimes in human history. Between the Israelis, the Saudis, the Indian Hinduvistas, and the Duterte/Marcos cartel in the Philippians, we’ve got - bare minimum - four Fascist regional governments that we are falling over ourselves to help perpetuate atrocities of nightmarish proportions.
Republicans and Democrats seem to be in alignment in supporting all of these horrifying campaigns of mass slaughter. If this is the future of American politics, our government deserves to fail and I pray that our failed state is wiped from the face of the Earth.
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Government Negotiations with Terrorists: US Edition
Also:
Negotiating with Terrorists, from the Journal of Police Negotiation, 2001
This is the worst case scenario for Gazans and people who know them. They don’t care about Biden’s infrastructure record or Trump’s position on NATO.
No, worst case scenario involves nukes.
To you. For them they’ve already lost entire branches of their extended families. A figurative nuke already went off for them.
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Have you done anything to stop your government from building military bases?
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Lol you should check what we consider to be acceptable “collateral” casualties.
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The irony of those hicktards…