Abortion rights activists were unhappy with the presidentā€™s comments, as millions of people are being denied access to abortion care in nearly half the country.

  • Cinner@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Iā€™m not sure where you live but Iā€™m in the bible belt and almost every single Christian Iā€™ve heard speak about the issue (people are very vocal about religion here) has said that abortion is murder and they do not approve of women having the ability to choose to end a life for any reason.

    • Anti-Antidote@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      As a Christian, I have to say that I donā€™t see any medically unnecessary situation where abortion isnā€™t murder. You are ending the life of another human being for your own convenience.

      That said, I realize that as a community we canā€™t get rid of abortion. Itā€™s a very complex problem with no good single solution. Not only is it necessary that people have painless access for when it is unfortunately necessary, but itā€™s also not correct for us as Christians to force our convictions on others. All we can do is to try our best to make situations where abortions are desired (but not needed) as infrequent as possible. That means good prenatal care, good familial and financial education, proper sex education (and I mean real sex education, not just ā€œdonā€™t have sexā€ - you canā€™t stop humans from doing human things), etc.

      • Ashyr@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Iā€™m a pastor and I can tell you that modern theology on abortion was largely fabricated in the late 70ā€™s and early 80ā€™s.

        Even the Southern Baptist Convention, one of the largest Evangelical denominations called abortion a ā€œdistinctly Catholic issueā€. The cause for the change of consensus between 1973 and 1977, but the point being the largest pro-life organization in America took years to become outraged. If the Bible were as clear cut as they pretend, then they should have been marching on day 1.

        What does the Bible say about abortion? The only time it discusses it is in Numbers 5:11-31, known as the Drought of Bitter Waters. Essentially if a husband suspects his wife is pregnant due to an affair, a priest administers a drink of bitter waters. Thereā€™s some debate over whether this drink is legitimately harmful and God supernaturally protects the innocent or it is perfectly harmless and God supernatural punishes the guilty, but it doesnā€™t really matter as the result is the same: The termination of the pregnancy.

        If a fetus is a fully developed human life, then an innocent is being executed for the crimes of another. Thatā€™s a pretty horrific conclusion, but thatā€™s obviously not the perspective of the audience of the day.

        So how did the Biblical audience view the notion of when life began?

        This gets a little tricky as weā€™re essentially asking when does a person have a soul. For much of the European church history, this moment was called ensoulment and happened when the mother first felt the cold kick. This specific moment was also known as the quickening. Most evangelicals now argue that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception.

        The problem is that ensoulment isnā€™t actually a Christian idea at all, rather itā€™s Greek and Roman. Unfortunately, a lot of how Christianā€™s think isnā€™t due to the Bible but because of a rather interesting fella named Plotinus and his philosophy known as neo-platonism.

        Speaking broadly, in neo-platonism, the soul is the true essence of a person and it is immortal and eternal. The soul inhabits a body and lives a life of good or evil that determines its eternal destination, heaven or hell.

        Sound familiar?

        • Ashyr@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          In Judaism and therefore Christianity, people donā€™t have an immortal soul. You will find no verse in the Bible that discusses an eternal spiritual essence. The Bible explicitly notes that we were forbidden the tree of eternal life.

          Jews did not believe in going to heaven when you die, they believed in a blessed hope known as the resurrection of the dead. A time when all who died would arise again to face judgment, the righteous would never taste death again and the world would be set to rights.

          Even in Jesusā€™s day, this wasnā€™t a universally held belief, however. The Pharisees held to the resurrection, while the Sadducees believed that death was final and permanent.

          But the words Soul and Spirit occur all throughout the Bible, you may be thinking. Yes, but thatā€™s more an artifact of translation and cultural appropriation. In Hebrew, spirit is ā€œruachā€ and can be translated roughly as breath or wind. Soul is ā€œnepheshā€ and literally means throat.

          In Jewish thought, and therefore Christian thought, a person becomes a living being when they breathe.

          The real kicker in all this is that the church rejected a lot of Jewish thought and leaned into Greek and Roman thought because of antisemitism.

          The best argument for the Southern Baptist Conventionā€™s pivot on this issue? Probably racism as well. Integration in public schools caused a massive surge in private Christian schools, which could segregate under the guise of religious liberty.

          While the Supreme Court ultimately decided against Bob Jones University in the early 80ā€™s, it was only after a 13 year battle with the IRS and lower courts. By the late 70ā€™s, it became clear that the final bastion of racial segregation, Christian education, was going to fall.

          Racism had been a hugely potent force for turning out evangelicals to vote and with these final court cases, the voting block was no longer motivated or unified. Abortion was one of several issues workshopped by Jerry Falwell and lesser-known, but not less-influential, Paul Weyrich and first floated in the 1978 midterms with tremendous success.

          It finally became an issue with national attention in 1980 and the theology of life beginning at conception was largely solidified in place.

          All that to say, if you want to believe life begins at conception, thatā€™s fine. But you canā€™t pretend thatā€™s ever been a commonly held perspective. Throughout much of church history it was the quickening and when the Bible was written, it was almost certainly at first breath.

          Interesting, pastor W.A. Criswell, the former president of the southern baptist convention agreed with that notion in 1974. ā€œI have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person,ā€ Criswell declared, ā€œand it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed.ā€