- cross-posted to:
- michigan
- cross-posted to:
- michigan
Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote āuncommittedā in Michiganās primary on Tuesday
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
āItās important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote thatās not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,ā she said on Sunday during an interview on CNNās State of the Union. āA second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.ā
Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Bidenās 2024 campaign, also said she wasnāt sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.
Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote āuncommittedā in Michiganās 27 February primary.
i donāt know what trump would have done. neither do you. the guyās a bit of a wild card. for example look at russia heās totally down to just drop the ukraine war. meanwhile biden supports prolonging it however long is necessary
iām not defending trump iām just saying if i were a muslim and especially if i were a Palestinian i would never vote for biden. itās unforgivable. i support the muslims in michigan. if the democrats want votes, they need to push policies that the people actually want
they canāt just expect people to keep voting for them because of the eternal right-wing boogeyman. because itās getting so bad people are actually starting to wonder if maybe the far-right proto fascist is better and thatās a piss poor state of affairs for a democracy to be in
What are you talking about? Trump obviously wouldnāt support Ukraine. Itās really no secret that heās in Russiaās pocket. His attitude towards Muslims also is something heās very open about. Not to mention his love for strong-men wanna be dictators like Netanyahu is well known. To think that he would be better for Palestinians is ridiculous. So no, Iām absolutely certain that Trump would have handled this situation much worse and will handle it worse if he gets into office while itās still raging.
Then these people are fucking stupid and donāt realise how much they have to loose living under fascism. Especially if their Muslims living in the US! The Israel Palestinian conflict is one thing, to loose democracy at home is something much worse.
thatās what iām saying. he would drop usās support of the war, likely ending the war sooner. so heās not necessarily a war monger. i donāt know for a fact he would support israelās war in gaza. maybe he would, maybe he wouldnāt i donāt know.
we have already lost democracy if we have no choice but to vote for someone. either way you donāt really have a choice. see what i mean? trump and biden are different pathways to the same end game. death of democracy
Well yes, in a conflict where he gets orders from Putin to not help, he of course doesnāt go to war. But his general attitude to war really isnāt a secret. That dude nearly started a war with Iran in his first term for example.
No! One candidate has already tried to overthrow an election he lost, the other didnāt and has been very outspoken for his support of democracy. If thatās really your take away from that then I really have no idea what you did in the last decade. You certainly didnāt payed attention to whatās going on.
itās not because he gets orders from putin. itās because he sees the writing on the wall that the war is over and heās trying to get on the right side of history. the war will inevitably end with russia seizing territory. once that happens he can say āi told you soā and seem like heās a peacemaker.
and he can say āwhy are we spending hundreds of billions of dollars on ukraine when they are going to lose anyway?ā or āwhy are we spending hundreds of billions of dollars while americans are struggling to make ends meetā? or āwhy are we spending hundreds of billions of dollars supporting a war that is actively raising inflation across the globe, hurting americans?ā
he doesnāt actually give a shit one way or the other - trump has no ideals or principles. but heās betting that the public opinion against the war will sour soon. and if you look at the polls, thatās what is happening. americans are slowly losing their appetite for the ukraine war (republicans at a faster rate, but weāre seeing democrats too get war fatigue)
his anti-war stance is one of political opportunism. other politicians would do the same if they werenāt beholden to lockheed martin and friends. trump doesnāt give a shit about anyone and is willing to throw anyone under the bus and that works to his advantage
the assassination of Soleimani was honestly criminal and stupid and basically ruined any chances for rapprochement with Iran and to top it off Trump killed the Iran nuclear deal. so yeah, i understand and agree with you here
but compare and contrast that situation with whatās going on right now. weāre 100x closer to war with Iran than we were under Trump. weāve intercepted hundreds of missiles and missiles from iranian backed regimes. americans have already died from these attacks. we had to send two aircraft carriers to the middle east - something we didnāt even do during the invasion of Iraq
iām not denying that he tried to overthrow the election.
but what is the difference to me if I canāt vote versus I can only vote for one guy? thereās no functional difference. either way, i have no voice. in that case, maybe itās better it be trump because itās more honest. weāre becoming an oligarchic dictatorship regardless of who we elect
Not sure if youāre just so damn cynical or are knowingly are pushing Russian propaganda.
But damn dude, Trump and quite a few top Republicans is balls deep into Russiaās pockets. Thatās the reason that they suddenly are actively taking Russiaās point of view. Something that 20 years ago never would have been possible.
And sorry, but if you think that the US becoming a full fledged theocratic oligarchic dictatorship than what it is right now then you really didnāt think through what that would mean to you and those you love. Their plans regarding abortion and pregnancy prevention alone should be more than enough to point you in the right direction.
Iāll admit I am pretty cynical but I have arrived at my positions with reason and lots of reading and analysis. Itās not out of the blue and itās not partisan. I donāt really care about neither Trump Biden or Russia. I was born in South America in the 90s and grew up in the US as an illegal immigrant and became legal under Trump (citizen now under Biden). I have a different experience of this country compared to you. I also have exposure to different language media that isnāt as heavily manipulated on certain topics and exposure to different geopolitical viewpoints.
I think that Putin is a naturally ally for Trump because they are similar strongman leaders. But I do not think that Trump and Co. are beholden to Russia like you claim. Remember that Trump was willing to send weapons to Ukraine that Obama was not - out of fears of potentially angering Russia.
It was Paul Manafort for example who was involved in Ukraine collecting and spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money in order to influence Ukrainian democracy away from Russia and towards the US. A Trump ally.
Thereās a lot more to this discussion I can share with you if youāre curious.
As for your last part - I support abortion and think itās absurd that we are going backwards in time and repealing something we figured out in 1974.
But tell me honestly man - do you believe if Biden were to be elected (which at this point is becoming increasingly unlikely if you are watching the polls) - do you think he will manage to bring abortion back?
Well I donāt have your view on GOP/Putin and their relationship to Russia. I think itās very obvious why after hacking both the Democrat and GOP mail servers only the Democrat one were leaked. There has to be quite some juicy stuff the Russian now hold over several major GOP players.
Abortion still is around for a lot of states. So at the very least Iām certain that Biden and hopefully a Democrat majority in the Senat will prevent it being banned in the whole country. I mean the Republicans really arenāt silent about their plans and that should be important to any sane person. If they get another Trump turn, it will get a lot worse for the US than it ever could under Biden.
because Russia wants Trump to win. That doesnāt mean Trump is a Russian agent or somehow in Putinās pocket. It just means that Russia believes Trump at the helm of the US puts Russia in a better geopolitical situation. The logic probably being that Trump is chaotic and a more chaotic US is a weaker US - therefore better for Russia.
Again, how do you reconcile your views with the fact that Paul Manafort was intimately involved with the Ukrainian revolution that put a pro-western government in power? Or that Trump was more willing to send weapons to Ukraine than the Democratic president before him?
As for abortion, I donāt think Trump would initiate a country-wide ban either. That would be extremely unpopular and Trump seems to be trying recently to distance himself from these types of extremist bans.
I donāt think there will be any change in the abortion issue on the federal level in the next 4 years regardless of if Biden or Trump is in power.
I think obviously Trump set up the current state of affairs by nominating the 3 judges, therefore giving the Supreme Court to the conservatives. So heās more responsible for the nationwide abortion bans than virtually any other person in this country.
Please understand I hate Trump. Iāve hated him since 2016 when he said the famous āmurderers, rapists, etcā line. I just equally hate Biden because heās a hypocrite and in many issues he is not fundamentally different in a practical sense.
Why didnāt they push through an abortion bill in congress when the Dems had a majority? Why did Biden continue using Trumpās COVID loopholes to deny people seeking asylum at the border? Why did Biden promise to make Saudi Arabia a pariah state for chopping up a journalist and instead of doing that, he signed billion dollar arms deals? Why did Biden hug Netanyahu right after they started dropping bombs on Palestinian civilians? Why did Biden continue Trumpās policies of sanctions and import tariffs on China? Why did Biden promise to halt the āWall tmā expansion and instead expanded it after doing a photo shoot at the border? Why did Biden pretend like Navalny is a hero when he literally organized and marched with neo-nazis in Moscow?
I can go on and on and on. At this point Iām totally disillusioned with any establishment Democrat.