As someone on the receiving end of this, it may not pan out for you. I was verbally told I was getting a raise, then my paychecks showed I got a larger raise. I thought nothing of it and enjoyed the extra money, thinking of myself as a hard worker who was worth the extra.
Months later, someone noticed the discrepancy. Queue the company informing me that the overpayment will be taken in one lump sum from my next paycheck, which would have made me unable to make rent. I convinced them to spread the repayment across as many checks as they had overpaid, but that was a pretty miserable experience to say the least.
I mean, if you switch this around so it’s the business paying less then people here would be going irate if the business just said “well we are paying what the contract states”. I get it, people hate work. But that doesn’t mean you get to screw your employer.
It says it right there in the contract. If you sign shit without reading it as the employer, and have been paying it for 9 months, that’s on you.
It would be another thing if it was immediately fixed but in either case, be it the employee or employer, if you’ve been doing it 9 months then that’s on you. (If an employee had been getting underpaid - but still a legal amount - and didn’t say anything for 9 months, I also think that’s on them). Gotta read contracts folks.
You in America? If so, you got screwed and need to call your state labor board.
At least in Florida, they cannot pull that shit. If they put it in your bank account, it’s yours. End. Think of all the scams people could pull if they could drop money in your account and then demand it back.
SOURCE: Worked for a payroll firm. If we overpaid someone, or paid the wrong person/account, too damned bad, all we could do was ask nicely for it to be returned.
CAVEAT: The bank can sure as hell pull your funds if it’s their mistake.
This is likely state dependent. I’ve seen them pull back funds from people in MD. That was some years ago now though so that may not still be possible there.
It’s legal in MA. I was paid double once and they took it back. I looked into it and sure enough, it’s totally legal as long as it’s within a certain timeframe.
I should clarify that it was legal in MD when they did it (this may no longer be the case). I had to talk to the company lawyer for guidance when it happened since I was part of the HR team at the time.
I’m pretty sure that would have been illegal where I live. Paying someone the same amount each month is an implicit contract. You can’t just suddenly go “whoops” and not pay for a month.
Depends on what’s in the contract, black on white. If the contract says x amount and they pay you y (and you don’t speak up), they can get that money back as it was a bookkeeping error.
If the contract says the higher amount then they can’t take it back, written contract always wins over verbal.
Fair, but a contract can’t overrule actual laws. I’m not sure what exactly those are or where OP lives but if the law says he’d be entitled to that money then a contract couldn’t change anything.
I would think it’s fairly obvious they are from the UK seeing as they are using the pound symbol for their money - and contracts for employment are king in the UK if I remember correctly
Still, I can’t imagine a UK contract can override UK law. You couldn’t get someone to sign a contract saying they’re a slave and hold them to it. Contracts do not trump laws.
Correct, contracts dont trump laws and your extreme example would not fly in court because of it and because it would break humantarian laws and rights agreed upon in our countries.
That said, he speaks the truth. If a contract says you earn x and you earn x+20 euro, they can and will compensate for that 20 euro. Its perfectly legal and ive seen 2 euros go down from my pay because of book keeping errors.
However, i assume the law has a margin for book keeping errors, and if not they can demand it back in court. You signed on it after all…
That’s not how it works in both Germany and Austria. If you have a contract you get paid based on it, if there is a bookkeeping error you have to pay the money back if the company accidentally gives you too much.
The only contracts that are invalid are when the number is very obviously wrong in the context. For example the contract says instead of $50k a year you get paid $500k a year or $5k a year, then the entire thing is void as it’s an obvious error.
If the contract says $55k and the company wanted to pay you $45k… their problem, contract counts. Your boss might be pissed if you keep insisting on the $55k and might fire you, especially if you verbally agreed on $45k. But oh well, that’s another topic.
Oh and in the UK? The employer is even allowed to deduct that money from your future wages. So much about knowing the law :)
Not where I live they can’t. See my other comment. If your employer gives you money, it’s yours, period.
I see this idea a lot online. Guess either employees don’t understand their rights or the employers are equally ignorant, both VERY likely.
And no, it’s unlikely the employer knows better and is fucking around. The magic words are “labor” and “board”, who will find in favor of the employee and throw a fucking to the employer. We handled payroll for quite a few shady employers, but none of them were dumb enough to play around with the money.
That’s not how it works in both Germany and Austria. If you have a contract you get paid based on it, if there is a bookkeeping error you have to pay the money back if the company accidentally gives you too much.
The only contracts that are invalid are when the number is very obviously wrong in the context. For example the contract says instead of $50k a year you get paid $500k a year or $5k a year, then the entire thing is void as it’s an obvious error.
If the contract says $55k and the company wanted to pay you $45k… their problem, contract counts. Your boss might be pissed if you keep insisting on the $55k and might fire you, especially if you verbally agreed on $45k. But oh well, that’s another topic.
Oh and in the UK? The employer is even allowed to deduct that money from your future wages. So much about knowing the law :)
There are three conditions that must be satisfied for the defence to be applicable:
You employer has made a statement of fact which made you believe that the money was your own;
You acted in good faith and without knowledge of any claim for recovery from your employer and as a result, changed your position in terms of the money; and
You were not involved in the cause of the overpayment.
So if you signed a contract for a sum of x and the employer never said they are going to pay you more, you’re already acting in bad faith based on the first point. The second point is tough to argue, literally the only way to win this is if you have a verbal “contract” only and claim you never watched your bank account and just didn’t notice the extra money (but then if your employer tells you about the wrong payments you have an issue again…).
In the real world you’ll probably pay the money back 99% of the time, except if you want to burn bridges and leave (going after you for smaller amounts is not worth the time in court). Your professional relationship will be ruined though, which you may or may not care about.
Meanwhile if they verbally promise you a raise and don’t give it to you there’s jack shit you can do because verbal agreements aren’t enforcable when it’s convenient for them.
In many countries verbal contracts can still be binding under certain circumstances. Just hard to prove, so yeah, get it in writing or it doesn’t mean much
As someone on the receiving end of this, it may not pan out for you. I was verbally told I was getting a raise, then my paychecks showed I got a larger raise. I thought nothing of it and enjoyed the extra money, thinking of myself as a hard worker who was worth the extra.
Months later, someone noticed the discrepancy. Queue the company informing me that the overpayment will be taken in one lump sum from my next paycheck, which would have made me unable to make rent. I convinced them to spread the repayment across as many checks as they had overpaid, but that was a pretty miserable experience to say the least.
Can’t really happen here, since the contract had the twisted numbers as well. So they have that amount in writing with signatures and all.
I think in some cases you could get fucked if it can be shown that it’s an obvious mistake
I mean, if you switch this around so it’s the business paying less then people here would be going irate if the business just said “well we are paying what the contract states”. I get it, people hate work. But that doesn’t mean you get to screw your employer.
It says it right there in the contract. If you sign shit without reading it as the employer, and have been paying it for 9 months, that’s on you.
It would be another thing if it was immediately fixed but in either case, be it the employee or employer, if you’ve been doing it 9 months then that’s on you. (If an employee had been getting underpaid - but still a legal amount - and didn’t say anything for 9 months, I also think that’s on them). Gotta read contracts folks.
You in America? If so, you got screwed and need to call your state labor board.
At least in Florida, they cannot pull that shit. If they put it in your bank account, it’s yours. End. Think of all the scams people could pull if they could drop money in your account and then demand it back.
SOURCE: Worked for a payroll firm. If we overpaid someone, or paid the wrong person/account, too damned bad, all we could do was ask nicely for it to be returned.
CAVEAT: The bank can sure as hell pull your funds if it’s their mistake.
This is likely state dependent. I’ve seen them pull back funds from people in MD. That was some years ago now though so that may not still be possible there.
What they can do and what is legal aren’t always the same.
It’s legal in MA. I was paid double once and they took it back. I looked into it and sure enough, it’s totally legal as long as it’s within a certain timeframe.
I should clarify that it was legal in MD when they did it (this may no longer be the case). I had to talk to the company lawyer for guidance when it happened since I was part of the HR team at the time.
They might not pull funds, but they can absolutely deduct that money from future checks.
I’m pretty sure that would have been illegal where I live. Paying someone the same amount each month is an implicit contract. You can’t just suddenly go “whoops” and not pay for a month.
Depends on what’s in the contract, black on white. If the contract says x amount and they pay you y (and you don’t speak up), they can get that money back as it was a bookkeeping error.
If the contract says the higher amount then they can’t take it back, written contract always wins over verbal.
Fair, but a contract can’t overrule actual laws. I’m not sure what exactly those are or where OP lives but if the law says he’d be entitled to that money then a contract couldn’t change anything.
I would think it’s fairly obvious they are from the UK seeing as they are using the pound symbol for their money - and contracts for employment are king in the UK if I remember correctly
Still, I can’t imagine a UK contract can override UK law. You couldn’t get someone to sign a contract saying they’re a slave and hold them to it. Contracts do not trump laws.
Correct, contracts dont trump laws and your extreme example would not fly in court because of it and because it would break humantarian laws and rights agreed upon in our countries.
That said, he speaks the truth. If a contract says you earn x and you earn x+20 euro, they can and will compensate for that 20 euro. Its perfectly legal and ive seen 2 euros go down from my pay because of book keeping errors. However, i assume the law has a margin for book keeping errors, and if not they can demand it back in court. You signed on it after all…
You do indeed remember correctly. This is a watertight case for the employee.
That’s not how it works in both Germany and Austria. If you have a contract you get paid based on it, if there is a bookkeeping error you have to pay the money back if the company accidentally gives you too much.
The only contracts that are invalid are when the number is very obviously wrong in the context. For example the contract says instead of $50k a year you get paid $500k a year or $5k a year, then the entire thing is void as it’s an obvious error.
If the contract says $55k and the company wanted to pay you $45k… their problem, contract counts. Your boss might be pissed if you keep insisting on the $55k and might fire you, especially if you verbally agreed on $45k. But oh well, that’s another topic.
Oh and in the UK? The employer is even allowed to deduct that money from your future wages. So much about knowing the law :)
Not where I live they can’t. See my other comment. If your employer gives you money, it’s yours, period.
I see this idea a lot online. Guess either employees don’t understand their rights or the employers are equally ignorant, both VERY likely.
And no, it’s unlikely the employer knows better and is fucking around. The magic words are “labor” and “board”, who will find in favor of the employee and throw a fucking to the employer. We handled payroll for quite a few shady employers, but none of them were dumb enough to play around with the money.
That’s not how it works in both Germany and Austria. If you have a contract you get paid based on it, if there is a bookkeeping error you have to pay the money back if the company accidentally gives you too much.
The only contracts that are invalid are when the number is very obviously wrong in the context. For example the contract says instead of $50k a year you get paid $500k a year or $5k a year, then the entire thing is void as it’s an obvious error.
If the contract says $55k and the company wanted to pay you $45k… their problem, contract counts. Your boss might be pissed if you keep insisting on the $55k and might fire you, especially if you verbally agreed on $45k. But oh well, that’s another topic.
Oh and in the UK? The employer is even allowed to deduct that money from your future wages. So much about knowing the law :)
Looks like it’s not quite that simple in the UK.
https://realemploymentlawadvice.co.uk/2021/01/28/can-my-employer-make-me-pay-back-overpaid-wages/
Yeah… except for that tiny detail:
So if you signed a contract for a sum of x and the employer never said they are going to pay you more, you’re already acting in bad faith based on the first point. The second point is tough to argue, literally the only way to win this is if you have a verbal “contract” only and claim you never watched your bank account and just didn’t notice the extra money (but then if your employer tells you about the wrong payments you have an issue again…).
In the real world you’ll probably pay the money back 99% of the time, except if you want to burn bridges and leave (going after you for smaller amounts is not worth the time in court). Your professional relationship will be ruined though, which you may or may not care about.
In California at least, they’re allowed to ask, but I don’t think they’re allowed to require.
Meanwhile if they verbally promise you a raise and don’t give it to you there’s jack shit you can do because verbal agreements aren’t enforcable when it’s convenient for them.
Which is sane. So anyway…
Sorry, gotta go. That’s my employer calling to verbally offer me a raise.
(Over here laughing imagining all the people suing because, “I swear he offered me a raise! Nah, for real!”)
In many countries verbal contracts can still be binding under certain circumstances. Just hard to prove, so yeah, get it in writing or it doesn’t mean much
(Should be “cue the company” not queue)
Verbal doesn’t mean shit, obviously they rolled it back.
Op has a written contract.
*cue
It’s your fault for blowing all the money.