• KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    Biden is doing this to drive a wedge into Republicans. The gun nuts and the ones that don’t care about guns will have differing opinions because now gun violence affects them directly. It’s really smart.

    Biden looks presidential. Trump has three choices:

    1. Come out against AR-15s, for obvious reasons. This makes gun nuts less likely to vote for him.

    2. Come out in favor of AR-15s. He looks insane to Republicans who don’t care about guns.

    3. Trump ignores the issue or waffles and looks unpresidential.

    Number 3 is most likely. Of course the correct answer is number 4: propose a competing policy that is nuanced. But that’s impossible for trump.

        • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Is that enough to matter? And is this issue enough for them to change their vote, given the tax stuff? All the other shit Trump does certainly doesn’t matter.

          • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            The richest places in America are pretty solidly blue. A lot of rich people like good public schools and colleges, clean water, the arts, etc. and understand that taxes and charity are how those things are paid for.

            Other rich people like gated communities and stopped reading books1 when someone stopped assigning them. They’re the Republican rich people.

            1 Some will read a book about war or some shitty airport bookstore thing that’s 80% out-of-context quotes about how to be a leader.

            • iheartneopets@lemm.ee
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              5 months ago

              Rich people don’t give a fuck about public schools, lmao, they send their kids to private ones.

              • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Private schools often suck. Rich people aren’t smarter. They just have more money. There’s plenty of districts where the best public high school is way better than whatever private schools exist. Half the private schools are for weird religious groups or kids who got expelled.

                There’s almost always good public schools in cities. That’s why there’s always loopholes that allow rich people’s kids to go to them.

                And in colleges, Harvard isn’t better than UC-Berkeley or the honors programs at most state flagship institutions. It’s just older. (There have been studies that compared students who got into an Ivy League school and ultimately chose a public flagship and the Ivy grads only did better in the first few years after graduation. But then the public flagship attendees caught up.)

            • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I wonder how many of those hedge fund billionaires down on Wall Street are Democrats. I doubt that it’s many of them. Bankers? Nah. Media and Telcom? Not likely. They’re all based in NYC, the bluest of the blue cities.

              They all like tax cuts and deregulation. Trump is the one who’s promising that, whereas Biden promised and already delivered more of both to them all.

              • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                I don’t have any desire to defend hedge fund or VC billionaires so I’ll concede the point. There’s a reason San Francisco has NIMBY policies and New York City can’t elect mayors for shit.

                • EleventhHour@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Yeah, because the people who own all of the businesses and real estate constantly battle those who work at the businesses and live in all that real estate, which just goes to show what a fucked up and unbalanced role money plays in our so-called democracy.

              • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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                5 months ago

                Bankers? Nah. Media and Telcom? Not likely. They’re all based in NYC, the bluest of the blue cities.

                Now you’re just making things up. You can’t just say “nah, not likely” and prove anything. It’s a lack of effort that shows you don’t have evidence.

                NYC is a “blue city” (whatever that means) because of these professionals. The actual working class people in NYC make up a lot of the conservatives. That’s why cities are more liberal: because they have more educated people. Those people work in banking or media; they’re not all artists or plumbers or something.

          • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            At this point Donald Trump could build a shrine to and start worshipping Obama as a God… It won’t affect anything.

        • BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          And the ones that are Republicans to fuck over everyone but the rich. They’d definitely prefer “poor folk” didn’t have guns at all.

      • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Lots of them. Do you know any Republicans? None of them care about issues that don’t affect them and their families. Even other “conservative” issues. They are not driven by policy.

        Only Republicans with guns care about guns. And only 50% of Republicans have guns.

        https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx

        They don’t care about each other. Liberals care about what other liberals think. Stop thinking like someone who cares about policy.

        • 5C5C5C@programming.dev
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          5 months ago

          I’ve had to explain this to a lot of people who naturally assume that any organization of people will be organized around some kind of shared values. Most of the time that’s true, but not for Republicans.

          Republicans are just a mish mash of obsessive single-issue voters, and by in large they just don’t care about the other single issues that their fellow party members are going on about.

          At the head of the Republican party it’s people who want to minimize their tax burden, eliminate regulations on corporations, and cannibalize as much of the US government as they can into for-profit institutions. You could say that’s three issues instead of one, but the overarching theme is to cater to personal greed, no matter the harm to society. These are the ones who are primarily pulling the strings in the party, at least historically.

          Just below them is the military industrial complex and gun manufacturers who just want to sell guns no matter the harm to society. They like to rile up 2A fanatics with conspiracy theories that the government is out to steal all their guns so they’ll be defenseless, paving the way for King Biden to ascend to his throne. The industry only cares about selling guns and the fanatics only care about having guns, and neither care about any kind of harm to society.

          Then there’s the radical Christians whose obsessions cover an eclectic mix of social reactionary positions and literal death cult worship (e.g. Christians who give absolute support to genocide in Palestine because they think Israel’s conquest is a crucial step towards the rapture, which they believe is imminent). Broadly speaking the people in this group just want to hoist their religious doctrines onto everyone they can by any means available and no matter the harm it causes to society. They literally only care about “God’s Kingdom” in the afterlife.

          Then there’s people who just lack any capacity for adaptation or learning. Their obsession is to feel like things are staying the same, or even reverting back to a past that they only know how to view through rose tinted glasses. They can’t be bothered to comprehend the problems we’re facing as a society or how the past was not the idyllic utopia that they mistakenly remember, nor can the old way of doing things sustain a growing and transforming society. These people just want to exist in comforting ignorance by feeling like they get to remain in familiar surroundings, no matter the harm to society.

          There’s really only one thing that truly unites them: Each one wants one specific thing no matter the harm to society, and that one specific thing that they each want IS HARMFUL to society. But they work well together because none of them care about the harm being caused by any of the others, and as long as they all tow the same line, each one gets what they want.

        • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I’ve never met any Republicans that were pro-gun-bans. I really don’t believe you’ll be able to find a single one either.

          This is dumb as fuck timing by Biden, but I’m sure he can’t help himself because he’s been super anti-gun for decades so it’s probably just like a reflex at this point for him to to off about banning guns after a shooting.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        How many of them will stay home or change their vote because the head of the party they’re still a part of despite all the gun nuts continues acting like a gun nut?

        If Biden is trying to use guns as a wedge issue for Republicans, he’s the person we saw at the debate all the time.

      • Rakonat@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        The ones that are antiabortion or evangelicals who don’t own guns. GOP has the most gun owners but its not even like half their voters. Vocal minorities is all it is.

        The only issue the GOP is actually united on right now is how they don’t like democrats.

    • TunaCowboy@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Gun control, especially banning the most popular and utilitarian platform, is a massive political loser. This is incredibly poor timing for a struggling campaign.

        • ours@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          It’s good for shooting small, very fast bullets. May that be hunting, target shooting or self-defense.

          If they want to ban AR-15s, they should ban all semi-automatic rifles otherwise it would be ridiculous. The would-be assassin could have done the same thing with a whole assortment of mostly equivalently performing rifles. Some just as “scary looking” black rifles, some with wooden parts.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            If they want to ban AR-15s, they should ban all semi-automatic rifles otherwise it would be ridiculous.

            And if they ban all those guns they should finish the job while they’re at it and just ban guns, glad we agree.

            • ours@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Indeed, they would have to go down the route Australia went. But I don’t see this happening in America any time soon.

              If piles of murdered kids didn’t do much to move the needle, shooting an inflammatory politician isn’t going to do it. We’ll see how the MAGA respond to this event or hopefully when they lose the elections. Maybe (but hopefully not) they’ll act violently enough to force facing America’s relationship with guns.

    • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      Trump ignores the issue or waffles and looks unpresidential.

      and that is what’s gonna get him. because up until now, he looked soooo presidential 😂

    • Fester@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      Any of those options will work fine for Trump. He doesn’t need to have policies, strategies, or responses to anything. His voters can’t remember it anyway. You think they remember that he banned bump stocks in the first place? He could promise to ban AR-15s one day, then criticize his own proposal the next day, and he’ll just get cheered by both sides. Voters are fucking stupid.

      All that matters is that he keeps the steady supply of hateful buzzwords flowing. You can’t win chess against an opponent who’s playing hungry hungry hippos.

      • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        All of that wastes trump’s time and makes him look unprofessional to swing voters. He can’t win with just his fans. That’s why he lost big time in 2020. The swing voters saw him failing to respond to an actual issue.

        • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          5 months ago

          Correction: He lost big time because of mail-in votes. Trump in 2020 got the record high for votes for a Republican candidate at something like 67.2 million, which was just about a million votes less than what Obama got during his first election (which was a record-breaking turnout). Biden got around 80 million votes in 2020, breaking every voter turnout record ever.

          Swing voters are still crucial because that’s how Hillary lost despite having only 100,000 less votes than Obama did in his second election, but I feel like swing voters have probably more or less already made up their minds. If you don’t see Trump for what he is already, the odds of his reaction here being the final straw seems unlikely. I think if people had better access to voting, we’d easily see a repeat of 2020 even if we were to vote right this minute.

    • PythagreousTitties@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      Trump already said he’d take away everyones guns, no questions asked, years ago. No one that supported him even blinked. This means nothing to them.

      • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        That’s just bullshit, he did not. He said the one stupid thing about ignoring due process for red flag law situations. This is pretty far and away from “everyone’s guns”

        • PythagreousTitties@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          You made me curious, thank you. The actual quote is “take the guns first, go through due process second.”

      • Elsie@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        I’m pretty sure the NRA had a heart attack when they heard that 🤣

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      Trump will go with number 5: “Did you know socialist immigrant windmills causing cancers kill more Americans than guns?”

    • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      He will do #2, and his base will cheer. Not a single person from that camp will think he’s crazy.

      This is the kind of Democrat logic that makes me cringe…

    • mctoasterson@reddthat.com
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      5 months ago

      He can just say nothing. His position is already clear and he just selected a VP candidate who was pictured in social media with an AR15 recently, and openly suggested the ATF doesn’t need to exist.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Biden is doing this to drive a wedge into Republicans. The gun nuts and the ones that don’t care about guns will have differing opinions because now gun violence affects them directly. It’s really smart.

      Or… he just doesn’t want to get shot himself. Just saying. not wanting to get shot is a powerful motivator…

      Not that it’s perhaps prudent. or you know, god forbid, actually a good fucking idea.

    • Scubus@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      I guarantee that he will say that the attack wouldn’t have happened if more of his followers had ar 15s there

    • natebluehooves@pawb.social
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      5 months ago

      Option 4: trump and the GOP in general still views his assassination attempt as the danger you have to live with to live in a “free nation”. It’s the cost of freedom. Something something “just because i got shot doesn’t mean taking everyone’s rights away is a good idea”

      Growing up in texas, this is a very common view.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Admittedly, knowing the coward Trump is (He literally doesn’t order his own food because he’s afraid of poisoning) There’s a very slim chance Trump will declare the AR-15 is evil and act afraid of it.

    • wia@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      2 and 3 only matter if reality matters to you. Most people being trump don’t care how insane things look, or if trump “looks presidential”.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      It’ll be 2 because the Republicans who don’t like guns are a minority. It’s a cult, there’s nothing Trump can do to lose support. You can’t trick him into doing something stupid, he’s always doing something stupid, people clap for it anyway.

    • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 months ago

      It’s just dumb. The sniper that killed the guy wasn’t using an ar-15. Stopping ar-15’s wouldn’t have done anything to change something like this.

      • swim@slrpnk.net
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        5 months ago

        What do you mean, it was an AR-15. I don’t support a ban, just clarifying facts.

        • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 months ago

          Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my statement. When I said “the sniper that killed the guy” I was specifying the the secret service sniper that successfully head shotted Crooks. I wasn’t referring to Crooks.

          Pointedly, I was saying that the guy who hit what he was aiming for wasn’t using an AR. Not the guy who failed.

          • swim@slrpnk.net
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            5 months ago

            Ah ok, I get you, then. I didn’t downvote your comment.

            Guns are tools. And what’s more, “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”

      • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        You sure about that?

        FBI special agent in charge Kevin Rojek said Crooks used an AR-style rifle chambered in 5.56mm, a common caliber for such weapons. Authorities said the weapon was identified and traced using records from a gun dealership that is no longer operating.

        If that source doesnt work for you, here’s the president of the United states:

        “An AR-15 was used in the shooting of Donald Trump, just as other assault weapons were used to kill so many others, including children."

        That’s from the linked article.

        • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 months ago

          Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my statement. When I said “the sniper that killed the guy” I was specifying the the secret service sniper that successfully head shotted Crooks. I wasn’t referring to Crooks.

          Pointedly, I was saying that the guy who hit what he was aiming for wasn’t using an AR. Not the guy who failed.

          • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            So youre saying that since the wannabe assassin missed, that ARs are not effective weapons?

            Even if you gloss over the all the heavily published mass murder events committed with AR that the president alluded to in the quote above, are you aware that Trump turned his head a split second before the bullet hit his ear? That this likely is the only reason he’s alive?

            • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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              5 months ago

              I’m saying that AR’s aren’t a requirement or a need for a shooter and that stopping sales of AR’s just means that something else will be used. You don’t need an AR.