These people are so upsetting. I know this fantasy of punishing them feels good because of their vile beliefs, desires, and actions. And it would make life easier if we didn’t have to deal with them after they were eliminated.
But dehumanizing someone is what nazis do. I won’t join in. I’ll keep hope that we can deprogram these people, and they then are able to add value to our world.
In this case (Americans on American soil), wouldn’t capture be preferred? We do that with enemy combatants all the time. If elimination is better, why?
Those people in the photo are just LARPing down the street. They should probably be investigated to see if they’re planning violence. But no one needs to run them over with a car because of what they’re doing in the photo.
What place in society do thing these people could ever have? Do you think they’re going to wake up some day and go “gee, ya know what? I’m going to put away my guns and not be racist anymore.”? They’re not. They’re going to breed, then their children are going to be taught to be the same fucking trash they are. You’re not going to fix these assholes.
They are coming for our fellow brothers and sisters for no other reason than “being the wrong color”.
They intend to do harm or threaten harm. Doesn’t matter if those people are children, elderly, women, or anything else. Be concerned and stop nazis by any means necessary.
But not doing anything, you are “tolerating” it. Do not “tolerate” it. That will just let them know they are welcome to try and will not face significant opposition or consequences.
I see in other threads, you like Babylon 5 and you’ll do the ol’-redddit-a-roo which I’m very fond of.
I’m disappointed I can’t meet you in real life. We could discuss this over some nice food. I could learn about your interests and your worldview. I bet we could even find we have a significant amount of common ground in our opinions.
I’m sure I’m misunderstanding and you’re saying something more nuanced than what I’m hearing you say. Or maybe you really are saying people with fascist beliefs deserve to be murdered for trying to intimidate others. And then I’d be able to listen to all the assumptions and reasoning supporting that position. Perhaps it would even sway me to take up arms and start hunting people.
^ This is pretty much what I mean when I’m replying with “okay” but I’ve spent more time on this thread than I probably should have, so I just gave a terse reply to let them know I heard them and won’t be countering their reply. If they want to take that as a win, they’re welcome to.
Them having rifles cannot be solved without vastly different gun laws in the U.S.
They absolutely should be prevented from causing harm. I just don’t these particular people (based solely on this photograph) should be thrown in the gas chambers already.
We should do much, much more to prevent them acting on their beliefs. We’re not out of peaceful options yet.
I don’t think their beliefs should be protected, and if they’re inciting violence, nether should their words. They’ve broken the social contract. We don’t need to tolerate their actions. But an immediate jump to violence also breaks the social contract. It is incredibly frustrating and nearly impossible to stay on the right side of history when these are the people you’re up against.
There are many, many, many things these people are doing that already deserve consequences. Those consequences must include reprogramming. They must include limiting access to guns and social pressure to communicate how wrong their views are.
But again, what’s in the photograph doesn’t justify vehicular manslaughter—no matter how sweet that revenge would be.
I’m going to tell two long stories, and anyone with an aversion to the following should look away:Genocide, torture, rape, paedophilia, mass graves, murder, etc.
My Grandmother was born in 's-Hertogenbosch, and she never spoke directly to me about this, this is all from my father. I don’t give a fuck who beleives or does not believe any of this, it all happened and you can read more online if you like trauma.and when the Nazi’s invaded in 1940, she immediately joined the Dutch resistance (which was run by the Communist party, which she joined as well).
Her family helped Jewish people, Romani, Communists, etc escape the country (With the Romani, it is estimated that almost every single one never fully made it out.) As things got worse and worse, she got more involved in direct resistance. My grandmother worked as ‘bait’ to lure Nazi soldiers into alleyways at night. She had killed ‘at least five of the fucks’ including when she slit a pedophile Nazi’s throat in an alleyway.
She was born in 1925, and killed that Nazi pedophile before her 16th birthday.
She continued to fight against them, getting as many people out of the country as she could. In 1942 she was captured by the Germans, and sent to where we believe (she wasn’t exactly keen to speak on it) was Ravensbruck. To give you an idea of how fucking awful things were, because it’s always worse than you think:
There were children in the camp as well. At first, they arrived with mothers who were Romani or Jews incarcerated in the camp or were born to imprisoned women.[11] There were few children early on, including a few Czech children from Lidice in July 1942. Later the children in the camp represented almost all nations of Europe occupied by Germany. Between April and October 1944, their number increased considerably, consisting of two groups. One group was composed of Romani children brought into the camp with their mothers or sisters after the Romani camp in Auschwitz-Birkenau was closed. The other group included mostly children who were brought with Polish mothers sent to Ravensbrück after the collapse of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944. Most of these children died of starvation.
In January 1945, the SS also transformed a hut near the crematorium into a gas chamber, where they murdered several thousand prisoners before the camp’s liberation in April 1945; in particular, they executed some 3,600 prisoners from the Uckermark police camp for “deviant” girls and women, which was taken under the control of the Ravensbrück SS at the start of 1945.
The only story she ever told from the camp was the following. Just a note this is her speaking in Dutch to my father, who then translated it into English for me much later:
We were always hungry, and most people starved to death. You would work to death, or be raped to death, or tortured (medical experiment possible, my father was unsure.)
I was standing in line for food, when the woman in front of me died on her feet. She collapsed against me, so I walked with her up to the counter, and got food for us both. I carried her and lay her down beside a tent, and took her food to her daughter, who had been killed an hour earlier. So I ate both bowls of food. Maybe that’s why I made it.
At this point she silently sobbed and refused to every speak of it again.
She was released from the camp before 1945, however, though we never found out how. There’s a suspicion that her father collaborated for her release, as he committed suicide before the war ended.
My grandfather (other side of the family) wanted to join the war the minute Canada called for volunteers. He failed the entrance exams, as his vision (and hearing) were both terrible. Undeterred by this, he cheated his way through by memorizing the eye-chart, and would only wink at me and make a money symbol (rubbing thumb and index finger together). So I guess he bribed his way in? That does sound like something he would do.
He was a dispatch rider, and he drove a motorcycle with a side car. He went with the Canadian army all across Europe, and even spent time in North Africa. He refused to ever tell me (or any other children) any negative stories about the war, it was always about how they found a bunch of chickens, and (claims) “…I drove through half of Sicily with a live chicken in the sidecar - I wanted him to have a good view, and finally get to fly!”
What he didn’t tell me, that he did tell my father, were the bad stories, in particular:
"I was heading into Germany itself, I don’t remember where, with a huge convoy, mile after mile of vehicles going maybe 5 miles/hour. It was night so we had blackout lights on, which for me meant I couldn’t really see anything. Everything smelled awful in war, and everywhere the Nazi’s had been smelled like rot. I had to get a message to the front of the convoy, but on one side of it was a cliff upward with a small ditch, and on the other side was another tiny ditch and a massive fall down a few hundred feet. I went on the wall side, and had to drive in the ditch.
There was about a foot between me and the convoy trucks on the left, bumper-to-bumper, slowly creeping along. A couple feet to the right is a wall (The cliff). The ditch is so bumpy I’m having trouble driving over it, and there’s suddenly some moonlight and I look down to see what is happening.
For mile, after mile, after mile, are corpses of women and children from the surrounding villages. I couldn’t go left, I’d collide with a truck, I couldn’t stop because I was so scared, and to my right was a wall. It would take longer to drive back than forward, and I couldn’t turn around. The bumps I was feeling wasn’t just from going over the corpses, it was them crushing under the wheels. I vomited sideways for as long as I drove, barely able to stay seated, but I couldn’t speed up because the corpses would pulp and cause me to skid and fall. By the time I made it out I had to stop and fainted. "
My grandfather was 24 when the war ended. He did not sleep through a single entire night for the rest of his life, until he passed at 95. He spent every night not just in a different bed from my grandmother, but a different room. He would wake, even from naps, screaming and clawing and flailing. I only ever once heard him sobbing and begging forgiveness.
I asked him if he’d had to shoot someone, myself a curious 10 year old. He told me never fired a shot in anger, when ambushed he fired his gun into the air, telling me “I didn’t want to hit anyone, tomorrow they could be my friend.”
So when you tell me: "Those people in the photo are just LARPing down the street. They should probably be investigated to see if they’re planning violence. "
I refuse to wait until there’s another fucking Ravensbruck, another fucking DITCH FULL OF MILES OF DEAD CHILDREN, I say FUCK YOU, FUCK YOUR FUCKING COMPLACENCY.
I’m going to go die holding these people back from your kids, at least have the decency to not look away when they start doing it.
Thank you for sharing. If anyone isn’t anti-fascist yet, reading that would help persuade them.
I wonder how many marching nazis have you killed already. Or if you’re not arguing the people the photo should have been murdered already, have you been fighting them in other ways first? If it’s the later, then we agree. If it’s the former, that’s very brave of you to do that on everyone’s behalf. I hope it’s worth it. It’s a big sacrifice.
My life would be far easier if someone killed all the current nazis and no more grew up to replace them. I’d love to not worry about them. Though I hope there’s peaceful way to end fascism, and that these people in the photo can be saved.
I wonder how many marching nazis have you killed already.
None, Nazi’s aren’t stupid enough to march in the open in Canada*. If any come out in Vancouver, I’ll be sure to have a polite political discussion with them where I show them the impact a single fist can have.
Though I hope there’s peaceful way to end fascism, and that these people in the photo can be saved.
Ask Neville Chamberlain how diplomacy works with Nazis. Ask the Association of German National Jews how working with them went. You want to save people, cool so do I. So don’t shoot them. My grandfather didn’t, but he also didn’t ask that we really, really try to persuade them not to follow through on literally all of their goals. Which Nazi goal are we ok with? How far are we going to allow a group whose entire basis is the death and torture of everyone except themselves? How exactly are you going to deprogramme these people? Get them to sit down for a few months while you run cult deprogramming, which they will allow, because…?
You’re walking right into the paradox of tolerance. You think there’s some way you can work with these people, but you need to understand, this entire ideology is sociopathic. You’re sitting here saying we need to sit down and try to persuade Hannibal Lector in how to act in polite society with maybe less eating people. Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933. We had years of warning of what was happening, and instead we tried to talk to them, hey please don’t invade more places, please stop this genocide thing.
My grandmother watched kristallnacht from Holland. You could see the buildings burning from miles away, across borders.
These people aren’t a different political ideology. They also don’t just target Jewish people, 2SLGBTQI+, Communists, Socialists, Romani (the few who are left), slavic people.
Prostitutes, Romani, homosexuals, and women who refused to marry were lumped together, with black triangles.
That tradwife shit? They’re going to decide who women have to marry, who are going to be breeding stock, who will RUN the death camps, and who are going to GO TO fucking death camps. There’s no other fucking option, that’s it.
If you don’t want to fight, don’t. If you want to try to bargain with them, whatever. Just know you won’t be first, but you won’t be last. While you argue with them they’ll take over ICE, or the FBI or whatever, and it won’t just be immigrants they put in cages while you watch. It’ll be your mother, sister, aunt, daughter.
If you’re an American, go to these rallies, at least be part of the human wall between the vulnerable in your group and them. Talk, give Ben Shapiro, the new head of the Association of German National Jews his platform while you debate against it. It will fail, and somewhere a 15 year old girl is going to be forced to do what you won’t.
It’s 1933, Quisling, how much rope do you want to hang yourself?
You remind me of Daryl Davis. He’s a black American that successfully converted a few high profile KKK “wizards”. It’s basically his lifetime work. He was both praised and vilified by many in the civil rights movement.
On the one hand, what he achieved is almost unbelievable. On the other hand, however, racism is at a high not seen in many decades.
So, is it effective? Isn’t it time, like someone said above, to meet them with force?
It seems to others, yes we’ve held off killing nazis long enough. I’m not sure we’re there yet. I appreciate your comment acknowledges there are shades of gray on this. And if you’re saying to you it’s time now, I can appreciate that.
So, uh, like don’t let them walk there? We could stop them from doing what they’re doing without killing them. Letting them intimidate people isn’t okay, and there are non-violent ways to stop them.
Less nazis is good for the environment. Why are you so vehemently defending nazis here? Why aren’t you preaching to the nazis marching around with rifles instead of us?
I’m criticizing the fantasies of the people in this thread.
I’ve dedicated my life to fostering tolerance to prevent anyone having nazi beliefs. But your suggestion to preach to the nazis is a good one. I think there are better ways to influence them, but this is a good start.
But maybe I’m just feeding trolls. Hard to tell now.
“If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
Karl R. Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies - Volume One
I think you’re missing what ‘tolerate’ means here.
Discussion? That’s tolerating them. Letting them parade around in their matching outfits? That’s tolerating them. Letting them spread their grotesque ideologies? That’s tolerating them.
Look I understand, my grandfather was literally a pacifist. He never shot anyone and would rather die than do so. But he never, ever, ever once said that COUNTER attacking these people was wrong.
The most disappointing thing about this entire story is that there are six nazi’s walking around with guns and no-one came out to do anything.
“These groups once relegated to the dark corners now feel empowered to spew their noxious ideology out in the open due to our state’s leadership REFUSING to condemn their speech and actions,” state Rep. Aftyn Behn, D-Nashville, said on X.
“They had a bunch of smoke bombs,” said Abdul-Aliy Muhammad, who stopped to document the march as it passed the Holocaust memorial on Ben Franklin Parkway. Amid the smoke, Muhammad said they saw Patriot Front members hitting people. “When they started hitting this person, and I saw what they were doing under the cover of invisibility, I had to engage. Because I didn’t know if they would fatally harm this person.”
Other people from the community heard about the mob’s presence, too, and started streaming in, forcing Patriot Front to fight its way out and eventually retreat in the Penske trucks they had arrived in.
And the VERY IMPORTANT HIGHLIGHT FOR YOU:
Police briefly detained the group but let them go.
This was in 2021. They took the fucking presidency, they tried to overthrow the government and STILL, you’re preaching tolerance.
I get it, but a lot of people are going to die so you don’t feel bad about what, I think you know, has to be done to stop them. The police won’t do it. The government won’t do it. It’s up to us, and most likely as it always is, the Socialists/Communists to stand up to them.
Don’t want to kill them? Then go punch a goddamn Nazi. People here are talking about counter-violence because they aren’t going to give us another option.
The only value fascists have for the world is they make great decorations when hanging from gas stations.
I’m going to agree with u/Zachariah here, this is not ok. We don’t make public fucking displays of corpses in the open for children to see. We counter violence with violence, we don’t counter sociopathy with sociopathy.
These people are so upsetting. I know this fantasy of punishing them feels good because of their vile beliefs, desires, and actions. And it would make life easier if we didn’t have to deal with them after they were eliminated.
But dehumanizing someone is what nazis do. I won’t join in. I’ll keep hope that we can deprogram these people, and they then are able to add value to our world.
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Nazi lives don’t matter.
Kill their ideas, save the humans.
if theres anything human left of them. I know you said we shouldnt dehumanize them, but these people have done that to themselves.
That still doesn’t justify murder for what is in the photo.
Armed Nazis are valid military targets.
They should be eliminated immediately with a focus on avoiding collateral damage.
In this case (Americans on American soil), wouldn’t capture be preferred? We do that with enemy combatants all the time. If elimination is better, why?
Incarceration costs a lot and bullets are cheap.
Are those the only criteria for this being the better choice?
They’re no longer humans.
Please explain how I am supposed to tell the difference between you (suggesting murder) and them (implying murder).
Or if you’re a right-wing violence-obsessed troll, fuck off with the nazis.
One is based on overt flag waving, genocide loving, pure ideologynof hatred being paraded in the streets as a direct threat to other citizens.
The other is self defense against that threat.
Seems like an obvious distinction to me.
How is killing (rather than stopping) these specific people self-defense?
You talk like a cop.
Shut their shit down. Just maybe don’t jump immediately to violence.
You’re on the wrong side here.
Okay. Kill me, too?
That’s not how it works.
Okay.
No.
Well, you’re free to do that, but unfortunately we don’t have time to deprogram enough of them. These people need to be met with force.
Those people in the photo are just LARPing down the street. They should probably be investigated to see if they’re planning violence. But no one needs to run them over with a car because of what they’re doing in the photo.
They have rifles. Pull your head out of your ass, the benefit of doubt is what’s gotten us to this point already.
✨️Please be nice to the nazis. We can definitely win them over with peace, tolerance, and understanding, and we can expect them to do the same.✨️
I never said tolerate them. I said don’t kill them for walking down the street with guns.
What in the world do you think they intend to do with those guns?
IfWhen it’s intimidation, we absolutely should stop that.But we have more tools to stop them than making speed bumps out of them. We’re allowed to be smart about things.
Being smart about things means learning from history and declaring war on the Nazis immediately, before they convince more people to join.
What place in society do thing these people could ever have? Do you think they’re going to wake up some day and go “gee, ya know what? I’m going to put away my guns and not be racist anymore.”? They’re not. They’re going to breed, then their children are going to be taught to be the same fucking trash they are. You’re not going to fix these assholes.
“If”?
“If”???
They are coming for our fellow brothers and sisters for no other reason than “being the wrong color”.
They intend to do harm or threaten harm. Doesn’t matter if those people are children, elderly, women, or anything else. Be concerned and stop nazis by any means necessary.
But not doing anything, you are “tolerating” it. Do not “tolerate” it. That will just let them know they are welcome to try and will not face significant opposition or consequences.
So, tolerate them. Copy that.
I see in other threads, you like Babylon 5 and you’ll do the ol’-redddit-a-roo which I’m very fond of.
I’m disappointed I can’t meet you in real life. We could discuss this over some nice food. I could learn about your interests and your worldview. I bet we could even find we have a significant amount of common ground in our opinions.
I’m sure I’m misunderstanding and you’re saying something more nuanced than what I’m hearing you say. Or maybe you really are saying people with fascist beliefs deserve to be murdered for trying to intimidate others. And then I’d be able to listen to all the assumptions and reasoning supporting that position. Perhaps it would even sway me to take up arms and start hunting people.
^ This is pretty much what I mean when I’m replying with “okay” but I’ve spent more time on this thread than I probably should have, so I just gave a terse reply to let them know I heard them and won’t be countering their reply. If they want to take that as a win, they’re welcome to.
Them having rifles cannot be solved without vastly different gun laws in the U.S.
They absolutely should be prevented from causing harm. I just don’t these particular people (based solely on this photograph) should be thrown in the gas chambers already.
We should do much, much more to prevent them acting on their beliefs. We’re not out of peaceful options yet.
I don’t think their beliefs should be protected, and if they’re inciting violence, nether should their words. They’ve broken the social contract. We don’t need to tolerate their actions. But an immediate jump to violence also breaks the social contract. It is incredibly frustrating and nearly impossible to stay on the right side of history when these are the people you’re up against.
There are many, many, many things these people are doing that already deserve consequences. Those consequences must include reprogramming. They must include limiting access to guns and social pressure to communicate how wrong their views are.
But again, what’s in the photograph doesn’t justify vehicular manslaughter—no matter how sweet that revenge would be.
I’m going to tell two long stories, and anyone with an aversion to the following should look away: Genocide, torture, rape, paedophilia, mass graves, murder, etc.
/u/Zachariah, I think you should read.
Quickly, this is not the story of Freddie Oversteegen, Truus Oversteegen, and Hannie Schaft, though they are absolutely incredible badasses with even more insane stories of just the incredible amount of heart and fight that young girls the world over keep managing to summon.
My Grandmother was born in 's-Hertogenbosch, and she never spoke directly to me about this, this is all from my father. I don’t give a fuck who beleives or does not believe any of this, it all happened and you can read more online if you like trauma.and when the Nazi’s invaded in 1940, she immediately joined the Dutch resistance (which was run by the Communist party, which she joined as well).
Her family helped Jewish people, Romani, Communists, etc escape the country (With the Romani, it is estimated that almost every single one never fully made it out.) As things got worse and worse, she got more involved in direct resistance. My grandmother worked as ‘bait’ to lure Nazi soldiers into alleyways at night. She had killed ‘at least five of the fucks’ including when she slit a pedophile Nazi’s throat in an alleyway.
She was born in 1925, and killed that Nazi pedophile before her 16th birthday.
She continued to fight against them, getting as many people out of the country as she could. In 1942 she was captured by the Germans, and sent to where we believe (she wasn’t exactly keen to speak on it) was Ravensbruck. To give you an idea of how fucking awful things were, because it’s always worse than you think:
The only story she ever told from the camp was the following. Just a note this is her speaking in Dutch to my father, who then translated it into English for me much later:
At this point she silently sobbed and refused to every speak of it again.
She was released from the camp before 1945, however, though we never found out how. There’s a suspicion that her father collaborated for her release, as he committed suicide before the war ended.
My grandfather (other side of the family) wanted to join the war the minute Canada called for volunteers. He failed the entrance exams, as his vision (and hearing) were both terrible. Undeterred by this, he cheated his way through by memorizing the eye-chart, and would only wink at me and make a money symbol (rubbing thumb and index finger together). So I guess he bribed his way in? That does sound like something he would do.
He was a dispatch rider, and he drove a motorcycle with a side car. He went with the Canadian army all across Europe, and even spent time in North Africa. He refused to ever tell me (or any other children) any negative stories about the war, it was always about how they found a bunch of chickens, and (claims) “…I drove through half of Sicily with a live chicken in the sidecar - I wanted him to have a good view, and finally get to fly!”
What he didn’t tell me, that he did tell my father, were the bad stories, in particular:
"I was heading into Germany itself, I don’t remember where, with a huge convoy, mile after mile of vehicles going maybe 5 miles/hour. It was night so we had blackout lights on, which for me meant I couldn’t really see anything. Everything smelled awful in war, and everywhere the Nazi’s had been smelled like rot. I had to get a message to the front of the convoy, but on one side of it was a cliff upward with a small ditch, and on the other side was another tiny ditch and a massive fall down a few hundred feet. I went on the wall side, and had to drive in the ditch.
There was about a foot between me and the convoy trucks on the left, bumper-to-bumper, slowly creeping along. A couple feet to the right is a wall (The cliff). The ditch is so bumpy I’m having trouble driving over it, and there’s suddenly some moonlight and I look down to see what is happening.
For mile, after mile, after mile, are corpses of women and children from the surrounding villages. I couldn’t go left, I’d collide with a truck, I couldn’t stop because I was so scared, and to my right was a wall. It would take longer to drive back than forward, and I couldn’t turn around. The bumps I was feeling wasn’t just from going over the corpses, it was them crushing under the wheels. I vomited sideways for as long as I drove, barely able to stay seated, but I couldn’t speed up because the corpses would pulp and cause me to skid and fall. By the time I made it out I had to stop and fainted. "
My grandfather was 24 when the war ended. He did not sleep through a single entire night for the rest of his life, until he passed at 95. He spent every night not just in a different bed from my grandmother, but a different room. He would wake, even from naps, screaming and clawing and flailing. I only ever once heard him sobbing and begging forgiveness.
I asked him if he’d had to shoot someone, myself a curious 10 year old. He told me never fired a shot in anger, when ambushed he fired his gun into the air, telling me “I didn’t want to hit anyone, tomorrow they could be my friend.”
So when you tell me: "Those people in the photo are just LARPing down the street. They should probably be investigated to see if they’re planning violence. "
I refuse to wait until there’s another fucking Ravensbruck, another fucking DITCH FULL OF MILES OF DEAD CHILDREN, I say FUCK YOU, FUCK YOUR FUCKING COMPLACENCY.
I’m going to go die holding these people back from your kids, at least have the decency to not look away when they start doing it.
Thank you for sharing. If anyone isn’t anti-fascist yet, reading that would help persuade them.
I wonder how many marching nazis have you killed already. Or if you’re not arguing the people the photo should have been murdered already, have you been fighting them in other ways first? If it’s the later, then we agree. If it’s the former, that’s very brave of you to do that on everyone’s behalf. I hope it’s worth it. It’s a big sacrifice.
My life would be far easier if someone killed all the current nazis and no more grew up to replace them. I’d love to not worry about them. Though I hope there’s peaceful way to end fascism, and that these people in the photo can be saved.
None, Nazi’s aren’t stupid enough to march in the open in Canada*. If any come out in Vancouver, I’ll be sure to have a polite political discussion with them where I show them the impact a single fist can have.
Ask Neville Chamberlain how diplomacy works with Nazis. Ask the Association of German National Jews how working with them went. You want to save people, cool so do I. So don’t shoot them. My grandfather didn’t, but he also didn’t ask that we really, really try to persuade them not to follow through on literally all of their goals. Which Nazi goal are we ok with? How far are we going to allow a group whose entire basis is the death and torture of everyone except themselves? How exactly are you going to deprogramme these people? Get them to sit down for a few months while you run cult deprogramming, which they will allow, because…?
You’re walking right into the paradox of tolerance. You think there’s some way you can work with these people, but you need to understand, this entire ideology is sociopathic. You’re sitting here saying we need to sit down and try to persuade Hannibal Lector in how to act in polite society with maybe less eating people. Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933. We had years of warning of what was happening, and instead we tried to talk to them, hey please don’t invade more places, please stop this genocide thing.
My grandmother watched kristallnacht from Holland. You could see the buildings burning from miles away, across borders.
These people aren’t a different political ideology. They also don’t just target Jewish people, 2SLGBTQI+, Communists, Socialists, Romani (the few who are left), slavic people.
That tradwife shit? They’re going to decide who women have to marry, who are going to be breeding stock, who will RUN the death camps, and who are going to GO TO fucking death camps. There’s no other fucking option, that’s it.
If you don’t want to fight, don’t. If you want to try to bargain with them, whatever. Just know you won’t be first, but you won’t be last. While you argue with them they’ll take over ICE, or the FBI or whatever, and it won’t just be immigrants they put in cages while you watch. It’ll be your mother, sister, aunt, daughter.
If you’re an American, go to these rallies, at least be part of the human wall between the vulnerable in your group and them. Talk, give Ben Shapiro, the new head of the Association of German National Jews his platform while you debate against it. It will fail, and somewhere a 15 year old girl is going to be forced to do what you won’t.
It’s 1933, Quisling, how much rope do you want to hang yourself?
(*https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKTSlV2WQAIiuxV?format=png&name=small If I had been there, yes I would have thrown myself in fist-first. I’d rather be the first to die fighting them than live to see them win.)
Okay.
Are you 5?
🤷♂️
You remind me of Daryl Davis. He’s a black American that successfully converted a few high profile KKK “wizards”. It’s basically his lifetime work. He was both praised and vilified by many in the civil rights movement.
On the one hand, what he achieved is almost unbelievable. On the other hand, however, racism is at a high not seen in many decades.
So, is it effective? Isn’t it time, like someone said above, to meet them with force?
It seems to others, yes we’ve held off killing nazis long enough. I’m not sure we’re there yet. I appreciate your comment acknowledges there are shades of gray on this. And if you’re saying to you it’s time now, I can appreciate that.
Imagine being part of the Haitian community they’re trying to terrorize with guns and hearing this.
“Yeah sure buddy, I’ll deprogram the guys holding guns to threaten me.”
Empathy is needed, but come on. Time and a place.
So, uh, like don’t let them walk there? We could stop them from doing what they’re doing without killing them. Letting them intimidate people isn’t okay, and there are non-violent ways to stop them.
Common (not homicidal automobile pilots) people were the key factor in anti-fascist action recently in the UK: https://time.com/7009238/anti-racist-far-right-riots-britain/
Hey, here’s a big difference between the US and the UK:
The UK fascists DON’T HAVE GUNS.
That’s fine. Common citizens in the U.S. have guns, too.
If only armed anti-fascist action will be effective in the U.S., then do that. But it doesn’t have to be immediately violent.
And if it’s not effective—with them trying to use their weapons, then I guess y’all will probably get the murders you’re fantasizing about.
But I see no justification in this photo to strike first.
You should read up on nazis if you don’t see them parading in the street as a threat.
You’re being disingenuous. You and I know they’re a threat.
No one replying to me has shown how vigilante murder of these specific people is the wisest response to this threat.
Less nazis is good for the environment. Why are you so vehemently defending nazis here? Why aren’t you preaching to the nazis marching around with rifles instead of us?
Again with putting words in my mouth.
I defend nothing about these people.
I’m criticizing the fantasies of the people in this thread.
I’ve dedicated my life to fostering tolerance to prevent anyone having nazi beliefs. But your suggestion to preach to the nazis is a good one. I think there are better ways to influence them, but this is a good start.
But maybe I’m just feeding trolls. Hard to tell now.
“If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
Karl R. Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies - Volume One
I’m not sure who you’re arguing against. I never said tolerate these people.
I just don’t want any of you to become murders if you haven’t tried other options first.
I think you’re missing what ‘tolerate’ means here.
Discussion? That’s tolerating them. Letting them parade around in their matching outfits? That’s tolerating them. Letting them spread their grotesque ideologies? That’s tolerating them.
Look I understand, my grandfather was literally a pacifist. He never shot anyone and would rather die than do so. But he never, ever, ever once said that COUNTER attacking these people was wrong.
The most disappointing thing about this entire story is that there are six nazi’s walking around with guns and no-one came out to do anything.
Nazi’s march in the open in Nashville? No arrests.
They then went to Philidelphia, where they literally assaulted people on the street.
And the VERY IMPORTANT HIGHLIGHT FOR YOU:
This was in 2021. They took the fucking presidency, they tried to overthrow the government and STILL, you’re preaching tolerance.
I get it, but a lot of people are going to die so you don’t feel bad about what, I think you know, has to be done to stop them. The police won’t do it. The government won’t do it. It’s up to us, and most likely as it always is, the Socialists/Communists to stand up to them.
Don’t want to kill them? Then go punch a goddamn Nazi. People here are talking about counter-violence because they aren’t going to give us another option.
Okay.
The only value fascists have for the world is they make great decorations when hanging from gas stations.
I’m going to agree with u/Zachariah here, this is not ok. We don’t make public fucking displays of corpses in the open for children to see. We counter violence with violence, we don’t counter sociopathy with sociopathy.
I’m starting to think this thread is being brigaded by racist authoritarians trying to provide bogus examples of “the violent left.”
This shit doesn’t smell right.
You defend Nazis. Anything that “smells right” to you, ain’t.
What do you think I defend them doing?
Being Nazis.
That was never my point. Please quote where I wrote that. I’ll fix it and thank you for helping me be more clear.
No one should ever be a nazi or fascist of any kind.
Also not convinced violence is the answer!