Lets assume we develop the capacity to create virtual worlds that are near indistinguishable from the real world. We hook you up into a machine and you now find yourself in what effectively is a paraller reality where you get to be the king of your own universe (if you so desire). Nothing is off limits - everything you’ve ever dreamt of is possible. You can be the only person there, you can populate it with unconscious AI that appears consciouss or you can have other people visit your world and you can visit theirs aswell as spend time in “public worlds” with millions of other real people.
Would you try it and do you think you’d prefer it over real world? Do you see it as a negative from individual perspective if significant part of the population basically spend their entire lives there?
It all the depends on the how and the what.
First of all, if the virtual reality is able to replicate physical sensation indistinguishably from the physical world, it’s not virtual, then, is it? Then it’s just alternative reality. If that was the case, the only dilemma would be the implications to the physical world. Will your body still exist, or are we talking San Junipero here?
As long as there are implications to the real world, then I believe a significant percentage of people will not abandon it, because of empathy.
I personally would only live an alternative reality if there was no one I love back in the real world anymore, or if I were to die.
As for virtual reality in the realm of possibilities, there will always be something missing, as addictive as it may be, so there will always be something to bring you back to reality
As for just trying it, hell yeah! As long as there are no negative consequences physically that I know of before hand.
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Knowing the food I make my Zomboid PC eat, I definitely wouldn’t want to. Time to eat an entire can of sardines and wash it down with some evaporated milk!
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Sign me up!
What’s happening to the users’ bodies and how are things handled financially for this hypothetical scenario?
Of course, but I’d still want to contribute to the real world. Luckily my contributions are non physical, so I could work from VR. And I’d have to log out occasionally to exercise.
Why couldn’t you exercise in VR?
Unless the machine you’re connected to somehow stimulates your muscles so that they don’t athrope then exercise is probably one of the few things you couldn’t do in VR. The reason is the same why you can’t exercise in your dreams either.
You can do the activity ofcourse and it feels like working out but it does not translate to physical gains in your real body.
What are you talking about? Just because you’re wearing a headset doesn’t mean you can’t move your body. You’d have to have weights in the real world to use weights in VR, but even if you didn’t, you could do planks, push ups, and various other excersises on the real floor you’re standing on.
We’re imagining a different kind of virtual reality then. My version doesn’t include VR goggles but is more like a dream.
Like Inception?
Okay, where do I have to sign?
Read “Infinite” by Jeremy Robinson. It’s a Sci-fi novel that explores a bit that idea.
This proposition feels like drugs without the physical side effects. If I’m [Edit: not] happy with the world I live in, I should try to make it better. Diving into a world without racism, climate change, pollution, or people with radically opposing views while we solve none of these problems in the real world isn’t healthy, I think.
you’re assuming though that the virtual worlds wouldn’t help to solve (or at least make irrelevant) those things
virtual worlds would likely be significantly more efficient than reality: if you don’t need to make physical products because you only need software and 3d models, manufacturing for most things just evaporates… less extracting resources from the earth, less energy spent refining resources and assembling parts, etc… no need for lighting, entertainment and social venues, office space… people would need far smaller houses so when they do need to travel, it’s probably going to be somewhere much closer to them - and for that matter, why travel?
perhaps lots of our worlds problems fall away when people can have whatever they like - when we aren’t competing with each other, and exist in a (virtual) world of plenty, perhaps some of societies more intractable problems will just cease to be problems. i’m not saying that would happen, and i don’t have any citations, but i’d say it’s certainly possible
what’s so special about the real world? if your experiences are fundamentally the same thing, why does it matter if it’s a real or a virtual experience? certainly there are things we can’t do virtually - scientific advancement and generally discovery likely requires some interaction with the real world, but even than could be done via interfaces to the outside world rather than specifically existing all the time in the real world
you’re assuming though that the virtual worlds wouldn’t help to solve (or at least make irrelevant) those things
Correct, I didn’t go as far as OP with the proposition of “virtual worlds that are near indistinguishable from the real world”. With that assumption your arguments invalidate my concerns.
This reminds me of the conversation at the end of Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World, and I think the arguments for and against are effectively the same.
Come to think of it Huxley would have had a lot to say about VR if it’d been around in his day.
Diving into a world without racism, climate change, pollution, or people with radically opposing views while we solve none of these problems in the real world isn’t healthy, I think.
And that’s assuming that nobody will create VR world’s where the oppressed groups are tortured or target for hunting practice.
Fully would. As long as there is no massive downside IRL.
If I could have any experience I wanted and see all the things in the universe without like, living half my life span or my descendants being farmed for fertilizer, then for sure.
The one downside is there would be minimal knowledge gain. Unless that’s also part of the virtual world.
There would be a huge downside in the real world.
The real world would seem dull, boring and depressing. As you cannot have that rich experience as in that virtual world.
A bit like drugs. It would create a dependence which would increase indefinitely until it would be extremely hard to live anything in the real world.
It’s not obvious to me that this would be a downside. Real world already is dull and depressing to many people. If they can be happy in the virtual world then that seems like an improvement to the status quo
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We are in a virtual world.
Continuous macro geometry which suddenly converts to discrete units when free agents interact or observe it?
Sounds a lot like how we’re currently building voxel-based procedurally generated worlds where a continuous seed function determines geometry which is converted into discrete units to be able to track state changes by free agents to what’s initially determined by the seed function.
We even have sync conflicts and lazy optimization in how it handles tracking these changes.
So to your question - are you able to resist the allure of this world? Should you? Does it being virtual or not change whether or not there is meaning in your life?
Though I’m not really interested in being a king of my own universe. I’d much rather be a traveler through the universe of another. And I suspect there’s much more interesting universes out there than simply an educational sim of what life was like in the late stages of humanity and the establishment of what came next, so I’m game to explore.
Also, the creation and variety of virtual worlds we are creating and will continue to create is very much part of the narrative of this reality. And so while traveling through this virtual world, I’m certainly keen on exploring its precursors. We’ve already come a long way from Pong.
At the same time, I’m not a fan of replaying things, so while I am curious and look forward to whatever is the next world in my queue, I think it’s important to take time to appreciate the one I’m in at the moment, as I am certainly am never coming back to this shit hole, as beautiful and majestic as its entropy driven ‘design’ can be in moments.
As with most things, balance is generally a good way to go.
It’s fine, but moderation is key. If you spend all your time (or even your life!) there, then that’s unhealthy. You’re using it as an escape and avoiding the real world.
But why? What if someone is truly happy in the simulation while in real life they’re miserable. I doubt that on their death bed they’re wishing they didn’t spend more time doing meaningless work and having no friends.
Reminds me of this comic
https://twitter.com/Merryweatherey/status/1185636106257211392
This idea of complete control over your reality reminds me of the book/novella The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect. Suffice it to say the story suggests that such a reality would ultimately be meaningless.
I would say it sounds great though, even if eventually it gets really depressing.
I did not read the book, but I can imagine it being interesting for a bit. I don’t know how would someone react to something like this however.
Maybe it can become meaningless, tho maybe if people still need to get into the real world to work, maybe it would become a way to escape the real world.
Which would make that once you get out in the real world, life may seem bad and depressing compared to that virtual world.
It would maybe generate undesirable effects and people would be in that reality for days (ex : what was imagined in Ready Player One). Create an increase in depressions and suicide rates…
Been a while since I’ve seen that referenced! Glad it’s still up.
I’d jump in, but i would still need a crafted experience. I find designing my own sandbox to be a bit dull. Remember the last season of the Good Place? Turns out infinite wish fulfilment might not be that effective at making us happy. And it certainly won’t help us to develop.
But if there are fun, designed experiences that are engaging and challenging to do inside this realm, sign me the fuck up.
Question though: how is time experienced on the inside? Because if our virtual experiences happen faster than real time we could get some real world advantages by studying and training in virtual.
One issue with learning and training, is that you’ll have the same limitations as now. You are still human, just connected to a machine and time cannot accelerate to learn faster.
However if we could move, change time to whatever place we want, create whatever we want. And still look real.
Then that would maybe make something very interesting for learning and training. It wouldn’t be faster. But for example a teacher would be able to create a world where they can help the students learn better, with images, simulations, stories…
However that may also create some issues where it wouldn’t be wise to recreate wars, death and other things which can be shocking for people. Because of that realism, it would be very hard to distinguish between a simulated war/death and a real one.
Tho it would maybe create a huge benefit for training for flying a plane for example. Cheap and no risks to break anything.
