It’s not gonna happen in this timeline
What timeline you living in?
I’m more surprised that he’s allowed to try for another term.
Of course he is. He was an imperfect president, but he did mean well for his country.
Many politicians are more corrupt than Trump but they’re likeable and they mean well so it’s ok.
Hitler was an imperfect leader, but he did mean well for his country…
…you see how ridiculous that sounds?
You’re the one who sounds ridiculous by comparing Obama to Hitler.
I think you meant Obama in this comment, but most people seem to believe you’re referring to Trump
Definitely referring to Obama. Trump has never meant well in his life.
In what way did he mean well for the country? Because as far as I can tell, most of his efforts were spent on making he and his cronies richer.
I won’t argue against that. The corruption is rampant and even most of our better politicians engage in it.
As should we all.
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Biden doesn’t have a chance on reelection. The guy needs to retire and the left knows it. Biden makes Carter look competent.
Carter? Why mention Carter? Not Nixon? Not Harding? Why not Trump? Bush? Fucking Taft? What’s the reason for the Carter comparison? I don’t know what you’re on about.
Because warmongering republicans love to say Carter was terrible when actually he was at worst run of the mill. But since Reagan followed him they have a rage boner against him. Literally one of the greatest humans with all the work he’s done with his charitable organizations.
He was the first neoliberal president.
We neolibs happily claim Carter and history will be very kind to him
I mean yes, let’s all come together and shit on the one president that has accomplished more than the last 5 combined because he’s old and he fell that one time riding a bike.
“shit on the one president that has accomplished more than the last 5 combined”
Are you daft? You can’t be serious, I mean come on man?
This president was the most conservative in his primary.
MaryAnn Williamson
Malarkey detected.
do you really want to see the poll numbers for a harris (the incumbent vp) vs trump matchup? that is, if harris could even make it through the democratic primaries?
Harris would never make it, that idiot giggle turns off everyone. Also is she Black or Indian? Seems to change with the breeze, and dumb as a box of hammers.
RFK is the only hope for the DNC.
And I don’t think he would make it, I’m guessing Republicans will win. “Bidennomics” is enough to sink the DNC’s chances.
Lmao imagine thinking RFK is going anywhere but to YouTube and substack after his “campaign”
Dude is a grifter here to grift you
She can be both you know… please tell me you aren’t this stupid.
Also is she Black or Indian? Seems to change with the breeze
Do you also say that about whether Obama is white or black or does this only apply to mixed-race people whose parents are both brown?
“The left”. Who dat?
The guy needs to retire and the left knows it.
Unlike Trump, who is- checks notes- three years younger than Biden.
Just because Trump’s almost as old doesn’t mean the left has to pick a fossil to run alongside him. Why give the GOP a handicap when we know the alternative is the death of democracy in America?
And uhm -checks notes- is an alledged criminal
At least biden isn’t gonna brag about beating a cognition test.
Camera, chair , woman. See totally sane. He even drew a clock and identified a giraffe!
He bragged about being top of his class in law school, a lie. He bragged about being involved in the civil rights movements, also a lie. He plagiarized someone elses speeches. This list is endless
And who else has a better shot of beating Trump? If you reused the 2020 primary list, would any of them fare better? No.
Biden sucks but he’s the best they have still.
Kennedy, bringing a centrist Democrat will decimate the the right. I’m a Republican and I will vote for Kennedy if he gets the D nod. We all know he won’t but thats the current state of affairs.
We need to get back to sanity, we need centrists. We need unity and a candidate like Kennedy will get us back on track.
EDIT:
I type faster than I think and left out a few bits.
The only one charismatic enough would be B. Sander. Kennedy’s an idiot, sorry to say
I’m still of the opinion that Bernie would’ve beat Trump in 2016.
I mean this is pure anecdotal evidence but since I’m on the other side of the Atlantic I don’t know what reality is like. However I read a lot of opinions that were positive towards Bernie, he has quite powerful arguments and is focused on the good things. Felt like real grassroots.
Then again, I’m not sure it’s possible. Wall Street literally conspired to coup the gubernment when they didn’t get what they want. Who killed Kennedy?
If Bernie was an option, I’m certain he would’ve won. Still, you’re not wrong about people in power not being huge fans of the guy.
You will never get that commie elected and that why the DNC dumps him every time. But he doesn’t have the sand to go Ross and run 3rd party because he knows he will be on the outs w/ the DNC
Do please define “commie” and explain how Bernie Sanders fits that mold.
He’s the only one that I’ve heard people actually support, not being a wall street henchman. Remember the literal train wreck where they “had to” poison the whole area by burning toxic substances? Remember how the corporations lied to everyone about it?
But surely this was a one off and not the status quo
How many houses does he own? Champion of the people he is not. He’s just as corrupt and thats why he steps aside when he gets passed over. He is a wimp. If that guy had a set he would have run in 2016 as an independent, but nope he towed the DNC line. BS is BS
Did he steal the houses? He worked tirelessly for, I don’t know how long, with a voting history favouring workers’ rights. We don’t know what backroom deals are made, but I’m sure Wall Street would hate it if their puppets lost
You vote for the Siberian candidate then. RFK is a Wagner shit weasel.
You may want to talk to someone… IDK what a siberian candidate is or how wagner equates to RFK. I would like to hear more about this as I am generally mystified on this.
Fortunately, Google can answer all of these questions for you.
Sorry, but, the Democratic Party are not supporting a conspiracy theorist. As a progressive one, it is just not gonna happen. I vote progressive on the downballot and pick the most reasonable choice on the primary, and this year, that would be Biden. You’re free to write him in though.
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Kennedy the antivaxxer and antisemitic conspiracy theorist? He’s not a centrist and he has no political experience. He would lose most Democratic votes and gain a sliver of votes from Republicans.
Enough trolling. You’re not serious if you think RFK Jr is a centrist.
Antisemitic? Antivax? How but maybe the is guy asks the questions we need answered?
No, YOU need to find a library and read up on why vaccines are proven not to cause autism and why RFK is grifting you for money. Once you get past that then we can talk about centrism in America.
When did I say vaccines cause autism? He hasn’t got a nickle from me I just agree with his stance on many topics? He is far more center than any other candidate from the left or the right.
But I’ll get on that library membership ASAP, thankfully its not two blocks from me.
Yes, we definitely “need” the question of “did the Chinese create COVID as a bioweapon but spared their Jewish allies” answered. That needs a deep investigation for sure because it’s just so plausible.
These are two separate things.
Yes, I agree that he should retire and pass the torch to whoever wins an open primary without interference by the DNC.
But that doesn’t mean he can’t win.
I’d vote for a cat with mange and one eye who lives in an IHOP dumpster over a Nazi sympathizer.
I would certainly prefer nearly anyone reasonable over that cat.
But I’ll be damned if I’m going to not vote against the collapse of American democracy, irrespective of how enthused or not I am about who that vote is ultimately for.
Though really, it’s the two party system that needs retirement.
I probably agree with ~80% of the US electorate on the issues that are actually most important to me. Which means we should have one party that represents that vast majority with aggressive open ranked choice primaries to see who controls it, with fringe groups like outspoken communists or fascists needing to run severely minority candidates rather than kidnapping half the nation by getting lucky during a fragmented closed primary process with a dozen candidates for only half the nation.
Nazi Germany could have been defeated with ranked choice voting well before WWII.
American democracy must be preserved or the world is fucked, but it should also probably get a bit of an update with the best features developed and vetted in democracies since 1776.
First of thank you for a well thought out rebuttle, I’m going to need a bit to support and counter some of your points. I didnt want to not reply and think I was just trolling/ghosting.
Refusing to allow their candidate be primaried, refusing debates, suing to keep other partys off the ballot doesn’t sound that democratic. If democrats were truly concerned about keeping republicans out of office they need to make the moral choice and vote 3rd party. Because we will not support your neoliberal, corporate owned, warhawk. Doesnt matter if its red or blue in office, the working class and poor continue to get fucked over by them. And being told they are doing well, despite the evidence they are not, is not that convincing.
Oh damn, you’re right. The Dem doesn’t pass a 1000% purity test. Guess I’ll just stay home and let others decide my fate.
Its not a purity test, its holding them accountable. Something voters are incapable of doing.
You’re right about us being incapable but for the wrong reason. We’re incapable of holding politicians accountable with our votes because of jerry mandering and an extremely broken two party system. If we had more options, that were actually options, we could vote better. But right now, we’re forced to vote for the lesser of two evils. And the right is trying really hard to make this super obvious if you’re even paying a modicum of attention. They are mustache twirling evil and super up front about it these days.
If the millions of Dem voters refused to support the DNC and voted 3rd party it would break the 2 party system. One election is all it would take. Why choose a lesser evil, which doesn’t exist, when you could vote for no evil.
It’s voters that keep the oppressive 2 party system alive.
If democrats were truly concerned about keeping republicans out of office they need to make the moral choice and vote 3rd party.
Um… that would put Trump in office. I have no idea what sort of “logic” you used to come up with that one.
We are not voting for your shitty candidates, so if you were truly concerned about keeping Republicans out you would fall in line and vote 3rd party. The status quo you protect only helps the bankers and corporations that run our government and ficks over the working class and poor.
How does voting third party keep Republicans out?
It doesn’t… but watch for the active accounts that push apathy leading into the next election. It’s going to be a common pattern.
Keeps Democrats and Republicans out, both are inefficient running a government that represents the working class
Good luck with that.
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Dems try and vote shame 3rd party voters to vote for your shitty politicians because you are so concerned about keeping Republicans out of office. If that were the case you could find the balls to break away from the duopoly and vote for people that might actually represent the working class instead of bankers. But they won’t because it would disrupt the destructive status quo that they are comfortable with.
Biden is starting to make Palin look competent
Right? I’m a Republican and that train wreck still haunts me… I can see russia from my porch. Like hillary landing under sniper fire, how do these people not see how dumb they are acting?
It’s almost like every election, looking back, the republicans are embarrassed about their choice. Funny how that works out. But THIS TIME, this time the candidate is a god. Can’t possibly be the same situation, where you’ll support anyone with an R, and then in 10 years tell everyone you never supported them, or are embarrassed by them.
Who’s God? First of you can’t identify God. God is everything, under a rock I find God. We are dealing with something bigger than us.
DNC has shit candidates, its gonna end badly.
Yeah. I wonder which candidate has supporters who hold him up as a god. It’s such a mystery.
They forget Biden had to drop out of a prior Presidential campaign because the truth about his outright lies came to the surface.
Plagiarizer, calling the inter city a “jungle” he doesnt want his kids in. How thid guy got elected after how many failed attempts tell me the US has gotten really dumb. Most voted for, my ass.
https://american-herald.com/2020/07/13/bidens-troubling-history-of-plagiarism/
Nearly dead last in law school, this guy is a train wreck
They’ll vote for anything with that D next to their name. BlueMAGA are as cultish as MAGA
Thats what I can’t understand, I have crossed the line and have voted blue. But they seem to be incapable of voting for the best interests. Its a cult I agree.
And our best interests are either the guy who believes COVID is a bioweapon that spares Jews or the guy who believes the leader of North Korea has the right idea?
He’d have to trip over a couple thousand more sand bags to reach the level Palin’s stupidity
“God save the Queen”
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Yep. He is who the U.S. has become. We are an embarrassment.
No, Trump is the hail mary of the US ruling class. They are scared that the people just start ignoring the government and take power, so they give them demagogues
They’re called representatives for a reason.
well yeah we have an attempted fascist overthrow of our government about once every 100 years or so because we like to stay just this side of fascism on a normal day
100% this. Im German and I feel so strange that americans are choosing this guy for president. Not to be offensive, but damn.
I was visiting Germany in 2016 during the spring, before the election. Several Europeans, after hearing we were from the US, asked, “What the hell is going on in your country?”
Man, we had absolutely no idea what to expect…
Americans aren’t. A corrupt system is.
Same here. I think this is what happens when education is underfundet. I’m happy we’re back to G9 but we should definitely pay teachers more to counteract the lack of teachers and ensure every teacher has sufficient time to do their job well.
Otherwise people cannot be taught to think critical, question “why is he saying X?” instead of just weather it is true or not. Often understanding why somebody is saying sometimg at the time they do is much more important after all.
This idea that we are under funded is not true. Per Capita we spend more than every other country on education than any other OECD country besides Luxembourg.
We are number two world wide for funds to education per capita.
Our funding is just wasted and ineffective. We have a cultural problem with education. Not a funding problem.
Yes School boards and superintendents are extremely well funded. The fact that teachers have to struggle to scrape by while at the same time funding classroom supplies out of their own money just reeks of mis-allocated misspent funds. There’s always money for another Sports program. While science technology engineering and math extracurriculars in many districts don’t exist.
It’s a perfect mirror of our diseased American culture. Where wealth and wealth alone is Merit. And those who give the least (work) get the most.
That money goes to administrators instead of teachers.
Fellow German and… yeah. People joke about the Hitler comparisons, but you won’t see us laughing. (I mean, in general, but that’s a different topic.)
Insert the Robin Williams joke here.
You should be offensive, we deserve it.
We picked an absolute trash human as our leader, a sizeable portion of which chose him specifically because they wanted him to hurt people (see: “he’s not hurting the right people” woman.) That same group will often cite their desired outcome for any given thing is “to see liberals cry/get mad.”
Hillary Clinton made a mistake by saying it out loud, but she was 100% correct when she said a large portion of Trump supporters are “a basket of deplorables.” They absolutely are and are deserving of scorn.
I just hate how well propaganda works and how much money a random grifting asshole can make by parroting bullshit on YouTube, they boost each other and perpetuate this garbage era we’re going through…
Please remember he never won the popular vote.
That too is scary. The guy didn’t win and still ran the country. WTF
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They did in 2004.
That’s once since 1992, but in that time there have been 4 republican presidential wins. it’s definitely rigged.
I mean… It’s not like I’m American or vote in America or live in America so I guess it’s not a priority to me to evaluate how these factor in my life.
I guess it’s America’s job to do it.
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The American political system is literally incomprehensible.
Everyone votes and then you find out who the winner is. And then, at some later point you find out who the president will be, and it’s not necessarily the same person for some reason.
And yet apparently democracy has happened so that’s all.
the american federal government is easy to understand: everything is weighed in favor of rural conservative racists because when we were first designing the thing they realized that they were in the minority but that we’d lose the revolution without them. President? Racists get more of a say due to the electoral college. Senate? Half a million conservatives in Wyoming get just as many votes as 40 million liberals in California. House? House reps are capped at 435 permanently so as areas become more populous they end up with less representation per person. SCotUS? Even when it’s running normally it’s biased because the biased president and biased Senate pick them, but since Obama now Democrats need the presidency and a majority coalition in the Senate in order to pick justices. That’s every branch of federal government, and recently they tried to make it even worse by making state legislatures (which always lean conservative because they gerrymander to hell and back) the sole authority on what constitutes a “fair” election. Given all the out and out treason that came from state legislatures after Trump got wrecked by Biden, I think we know what conservative state legislatures will do if they get to decide what constitutes “fair”.
Throw in a dash of first past the post, a pinch of gerrymandering, and baby we’ve got a minority government.
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Yes, but by the same token, you can’t honestly say that America chose him to be president. We did not. Our broken electoral system did.
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the thing about tyranny of the majority is that it can’t be replaced by tyranny of the minority. it’s absolutely working as our founders intended though: racist, conservative, and biased in favor of the wealthy.
Right except that the electoral system was not designed with that in mind. We have the transcripts of the discussion. It was to keep slavery legal. The method the POTUS was picked originally was to prevent the common person from deciding and instead award the most powerful job to whom the most powerful elites thought best could do it. Which wow even being nice to the argument is pretty bad.
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The intent was to keep a populist tyrant like Trump out of office, so it most certainly is not working as intended.
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I’m aware. I don’t approve. Know it won’t change.
^ Evergreen comment about life in America.
That means sweet fuck all when he still gets the job.
The crazy part is they think Biden makes the US look bad. When you present evidence to the contrary they say, "who cares what other countries think. "
My aunt thinks Jill Biden is controlling the country from the shadows and wants to run in place of Joe in 2024. We are fucked
I remember people saying most similar things of Hillary Clinton during Bill’s administration.
I’d vote for Doc Biden, ngl
Yeah, I’d much rather vote for Jill than Joe.
Different strokes for different folks but I do dig her
What does she think about Nancy running things for Ronnie once the Alzheimers got too bad?
That’s what I told my mother when she told me, but I doubt it’s gotten back to the source
I think it’s time to have your aunt committed
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In fairness to your aunt, I have voted for Joe 3 times (2008, 2020, 2020), and even I think Joe is pretty close to weekend at Bernie’s. He really needs to step aside for Newsom.
I wanna know if we’re going to weekend at Bernie’s someone, why not Bernie? Why has he not been on the ballot yet?
Well that’s just a stupid conspiracy theory. Well I guess they all are but this one seems particularly daft.
That was my first reaction, I didn’t even know how to respond to it because it’s patently absurd on its face. Really hoping it’s not some sort of viral right wing bullshit code that hasn’t cycled out into the mainstream yet
There are a lot of germans voting for idiots which just repeat a few Trump topics a few months later. :(
As an American I feel that a majority of Americans loathe him. The issue lies in not all those people vote.
What scares me is that any Americans vote for him. How can you be so blinded and not see what a lying, cheating grifter that he is. The man is not intelligent, doesn’t read, is petty to a fault, vindictive, spiteful, narcissistic, nepotistic and just generally not a good person. Why would you choose that for a leader? It’s because you share those traits. That’s what scares me.
I don’t know that they all share those traits per se, but just as damning not only to them but to our culture as well is our tolerance and even expectations that people in charge have those traits. I saw it everywhere when I lived in a deeply conservative small city, anyone with power (including company management) was beyond reproach. The status quo was defended harshly by the overwhelming majority. We have lost our values to greed by using the american dream as a trojan horse full of awful ideals.
We can’t underestimate the hate for others that is behind these votes. It started as “owning the libs” and now is pretty much evolved to “eliminate the woke trans democrats”. That’s the part that’s scaring me these days. There is no platform for running the country, it’s all just piss off or erase the other side, figuratively and literally.
The issue lies in not all those people vote.
Partly. There’s also the issue with the electoral college, because that makes some votes worth more than others (depending on where you live).
That’s a huuuuuuuge issue.
Well the fact someone in Wyoming voting is worth 3.5 times someone voting in California is a huge problem I agree.
Because California is a beacon of sanity?
No, not at all. One person’s vote should not be worth more than another’s.
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No no you don’t understand, I mean, sure the media makes him seem like he has those traits, but he’s really a great guy! I mean I guess it’s been proven he has those traits but who doesn’t right? Isn’t everyone deep down homophobic and racist and misogynist themselves?
And really if you think about it, God can use anything he wants right? So why would he pick the Catholic guy out there trying to invest in America? He definitely wants the guy who most looks like my own deep down beliefs. So no matter what you say, your argument is invalid because God is on my side.
…/s in case that was needed.
Ok this made me chuckle.
Who in their right mind isn’t? The only people that aren’t, aren’t eh brainless minions that worship the ground that coward walks on.
I’m not scared of him being in office because I have confidence that he won’t be elected. I know the whole mindset on Reddit and Lemmy is fear of him being back in office but with more young voters who are overwhelmingly left leaning being able to vote, the Republicans shooting themselves in the foot overturning Roe V Wade, and all of the ass backwards policies they’re putting in place, more people aren’t gonna let this happen in 2024. But I understand the fear completely and it is justified
The issue is that the overwhelming majority of voters, including the youth vote, only pay attention to federal elections and ignore state and local elections. In the present day and age, States’ Supreme Courts are even more important for individual rights than the SCOTUS. If you’ve got a red state high court and legislature and progressive federal senators/representatives/POTUS, life will still suck bigtime in your state. And more than ever, SCOTUS is reverting to “STATES RIGHTS” like we’re back in the Jim Crow era.
It could just be me, but from what I’ve seen of those around me as I’m Gen Z myself, a lot of us ARE aware of local elections and how important they are. We actively do vote in them. It may have a much bigger impact the next go around but we’ll all have to just wait and see
Fingers crossed. I’m a x-enial and I continue to be disappointed. :)
“I have confidence that he won’t be elected” I had that confidence the first go around… and that didn’t work out so well. The last election gave me a little bit of hope back, but that we’re even having this discussion in the first place, that Trump is even in the running, isn’t a good sign.
Well experts say that Biden has a good chance of winning if he runs against Trump. In fact, Allen Lichtman has predicted every election correct since 84 except Bush vs Gore. But that was due to Florida fucking with the votes. He himself says Biden has a strong chance of winning if Trump is picked as the Republican forerunner. Which they obviously will pick him.
The problem with 2016 was that Republicans clearly couldn’t take having a black president for 8 years to then go and have a woman be the next president right after that. Then Trump who just said any and everything to appease to then crazies of this country and they came out in droves. As well, Hillary just wasn’t that charismatic in her debates
Hillary had a whole lot of baggage going into that election, then the Dem primaries didn’t really do anything to strengthen her, if anything it fractured the party even more. She was an establishment candidate in a ‘change’ election, just the wrong fit for the mood.
Another big thing is that a lot of people didn’t like how the DNC snubbed Bernie. He was clearly in the lead until I think it was South Carolina? And then Hillary all of a sudden was the pick. Most people I know (and it could be cause I’m Gen Z and what I see due to my community), wanted Bernie and Bernie alone and we’re very pissed
Yea, that was a big slap in the face and I think made a lot of people realize that the fix was in, Hillary was “the anointed one” that election and wasn’t going to let another Obama come along and take the nomination away from her. I was still even holding out hope that Sanders would at least get the VP slot, just some sort of seat at the table.
Still though, anyone who just skipped voting out of spite helped hand the election over to Trump, gave Republicans all those Supreme Court Justices, which got Roe v Wade truck down, probably contributed to Russia invading Ukraine, and a host of other problems that came down from the 2016 election. I thought Bernie was the best choice by far (though maybe he still would’ve lost to Trump, who knows), but held my nose and voted for Hillary regardless because the election was more important than just getting my preferred candidate.
Vile people want a vile leader that they believe will help them remain vile without consequence. Especially vile people see the power in that, and run for government office. Or just decree they’ve got the job in this case.
If I could go back in time and either kill Hilter or convince Obama to lay off Trump at that White House Correspondents’ Dinner, the Jews would have lived 3 out of 4 times, but that 4th time, it would have been Rubio vs. Clinton (the butch one).
I’ve always wondered what the world would be like if Hitler died or didn’t come into power. A lot good things happened because of the horrible things that Hitler caused.
Yeah I’m one of those who wouldn’t go back in time and kill Hitler as I’m not entirely sure it would have led to a better outcome. For starters Hitler didn’t build the concept of fascism, he was just the first to take it to its end state. Kill Hitler and you could just end up with a situation where WW2 was a fight against Himmler.
lmao what???
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Certainly how the rich prefer to play their dick waving games
Does Barack Obama give a shit about anything?
He can’t anymore, he’s shitless.
""In a normal society, a former president—let’s call him Donald Trump—who’s been indicted three times in under four months, on charges ranging from obstruction of justice to conspiracy to defraud the United States, would have absolutely no chance of ever being president again. It straight up would not be a scenario anyone would have to even contemplate; even if this individual were not in prison, the idea that they would be able to run for and win higher office once more would not compute.
But unfortunately, we don’t live in a normal society; instead, we live in a place in which millions of people not only still support Donald Trump, but grow fonder of him with every new criminal charge. Which means that, despite the aforementioned indictments*, the twice-impeached, thrice-indicted ex-president is dominating every other candidate for the Republican nomination, and currently looks to be the most likely GOP nominee in the 2024 general election. That, of course, scares the shit out of a lot of people—including, apparently, one Barack Obama. Whose fear, it has to be said, is extremely unsettling!
The Washington Post reports that during a private lunch with Joe Biden in late June, the 44th president “voiced concern about Donald Trump’s political strengths—including an intensely loyal following, a Trump-friendly conservative media ecosystem, and a polarized country—underlining his worry that Trump could be a more formidable candidate than many Democrats realize.” According to people familiar with the conversation, “Obama made it clear his concerns were not about Biden’s political abilities, but rather a recognition of Trump’s iron grip on the Republican Party.”
Obama’s concerns are certainly warranted: In a New York Times/Siena poll released on Monday, Trump led his closest competition, Ron DeSantis, by a whopping 37 points. An even wilder data point that seems to validate Obama’s fears was that Trump beat DeSantis even among Republicans who believe he committed “serious federal crimes.” To be clear, that means these people believe Trump is a criminal, and want him to be president anyway.
As FiveThirtyEight optimistically notes, should Trump be convicted before November 5, 2024, voters might be less inclined to cast a ballot for him, and presumably they’d be even less so if he’s sentenced to time in prison. (In the case of the most recent indictment, two of the charges carry up to 20 years behind bars, and compared to her colleagues, the judge assigned to the case has imposed the toughest sentences for January 6 defendants.) Though, who knows!
As for a potential Trump-Biden rematch, another Times/Siena Poll poll published this week put the two in a tie, with each receiving 43% of the vote—which, for people who think democracy is worth preserving, is pretty pants-shittingly scary.
In somewhat happier news, Obama reportedly promised at the same June lunch “to do all he could to help the president get reelected.” And in a statement, a spokesman for Biden’s campaign told the Post: “President Biden is grateful for his unwavering support, and looks forward to once again campaigning side-by-side with President Obama to win in 2024 and finish the job for the American people.”
*And everything else!
Mike Pence giveth and Mike Pence taketh away
Yes, he tweeted yesterday that “anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President,” but then he basically suggested today that Trump was just listening to his lawyers’ advice when he tried to overturn the election—which, coincidentally, is a defense Trump is reportedly planning to use."
@eurekaphoenix
Wonder how these self-same Republicans would react if Obama had operated like Trump and was being indicted for the same alleged crimes? 🤔Too much of our democracy relies on good faith
100% true.
We also like to parrot shit like “no one is above the law” while requiring perfect situations before ever questioning elected leaders like the president when they blatantly break the law. The US has inverse responsibility, where we blame the poor for being poor and give the wealthy every possible chance to buy their way out of crimes.
Except the president and police are literally above the law with the presidential pardon and qualified immunity.
Qualified immunity isn’t abused nearly as often as people think it is.
Civil asset forfeiture is the one they really abuse
Honest question, how can we ever get out of this? Is it just human nature for most of the population to not have critical thinking skills? Is it possible to reach a world where the majority of people have even just a little empathy?
It’s just so sad. It’s so clear to anyone even kinda paying attention that we possess the technical capacity as a society to meet everyone’s needs and eliminate so much human-caused suffering at the detriment to absolutely nobody. We could be working toward a society where everyone has community, safety, security, opportunity. We could do so much if all we did was kind of give a shit about each other.
But no. Let’s elect the guy who mocked a disabled reporter, encourages white supremacy, committed treason, etc.
Donald Trump is just a guy. A shitty guy, but just a guy. He’s not what is ruining the world, but the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person, and fuck if that doesn’t just burn up all my hope for this world.
the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
And that is exactly my problem with that kind of thinking (or rather: believing). How did they arrive at such conclusions? Did Trump actually do ANYTHING to make their personal lives better even for a second? How many examples are there of Mr. Ivory Tower to make even an ounce of positive difference in the lives of rural folks?
So all I can see is a gullible people following the loudest talking head on a whim. It’s really hard for me to feel pity, much less sympathy in this circumstance. Although pity is certainly appropriate.
That ignorance makes them pretty shitty.
I’m not saying they’re fundamentally and permanently shitty, but they are being shitty. Refusing to become a more aware person is shitty.
They are stupid and scared and propaganda is extra powerful on people who are stupid and scared.
Education is the only way to overcome this tsunami of stupidity and misinformation. But it’s slow and costly.
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i’m not so sure it’s just evil people being evil
i think it’s just us vs them, which basically has roots in greed, power over others, etc
i think you could probably overturn those things with better instilled skills of long term planning, understanding of things like game theory (sometimes giving something to someone helps both of you! it’s not rewarding laziness: it can be selfish and humane)
i just think the reasoning here doesn’t go further than the initial emotion… there’s been no reinforcement that maybe your first reaction isn’t the right one
I’m going to go ahead and assume you’re not from middle America. It’s a lot more than just shitty people being shitty. This Cracked article from 2016 explains it quite well and I can assure you, as someone who was born and raised and now lives in Trump country, it still holds up. Add seven years of aggressive propaganda and intense radicalization and here we are now. The populist to fascist pipeline is almost complete.
Thanks for reminding me of how good David Wong used to be at capturing popular thought and placing you into a certain perspective. I might not agree with some of the generalizations of that article, but it does help understand their perspective.
We shame them for being shitty. Don’t engage them in debate, they are used to that. Don’t try to use facts, because they don’t care about facts. Don’t try to convince them of shit.
Make them feel like outcasts and bad people. Brush off what they say when they say horrible shit. Make them have emotional responses to their shitty views. Conservative news targets these people by exploiting their emotions.
And vote. Vote for people who will fix our education system so that our next generation knows how to think for themselves.
That approach could work in the past, but it won’t now. Now we have the internet when even people shamed by their family or neighbors will find support and like-minded individuals. We are only going to be more divided in the future.
Unfortunately, you are correct. We’re doomed.
I once saw a comment where a guy said that before the internet, if someone wanted to fuck toasters and told anyone, he would be shamed and made fun of to the point where he’d never bring it up again.
With the internet, if someone wants to fuck a toaster, they can go online and find a while community of people who also enjoy fucking toasters, complete with guides and recommendations on the best toasters to fuck.
Its absurd, but it illustrates a great point. So yeah, we are fucked. Pandoras box is open.
I’m left of centre, and here’s my take - the “left” is fucking up so badly that the right is going to win.
Ever play a sport and you just trounce your opponent, but the coach says “you weren’t that good! They were just that bad tonight.”
This is the same thing. Trump and the GOP aren’t doing some amazing job of campaigning and manipulating, they’re just up against the weakest opponent who can’t stop scoring on their own fucking net.
This is certainly a part of it. In a time when Democrats should be uniting and putting forward their strongest faces to protect democracy from the GOP, they keep engaging in political gamesmanship because ‘c’mon look at this clown, there’s no way anyone will vote for him!’
Only problem is that people have, and people could once more, put this guy in the White House. And if it happens…well, everything’s fucked.
Lol. If you say so.
I do. Where is the good Dem candidate with the platform attacking high cost of living, corporate takeover of housing, backing unions, and looking at funding education, ubi, etc?
It’s be pretty easy to break this wide open and runaway with the election. If they wanted to.
Downballot Democratic candidates? That’s where.
The Dems aren’t going to run someone who attacks the economic base of the party is what it comes down to.
One thing the political center lacks in America - and I say center because we don’t have a truly leftist political party - is a vision for the future. They don’t want a fundamental change in how the economy and government work, they just want to keep things steady and work around the edges.
The problem is the economy and government aren’t working for most people and most people want them replaced.
Republicans have a vision. Yeah, it’s a racist, sexist vision that will drag us back to the 1950s, but it’s a vision they can communicate.
What’s the Democrats’ vision? I don’t think it’s mine, of worker cooperatives and high speed rail and free education and universal health care, paid for by shaking Bezos and Musk upside down until no more money comes out. As far as I can tell they just want to keep things going like they have since the 90s.
And then they wonder why they can’t seem to get people to get excited to vote for them.
There’s no representation of the left in American politics, there’s leftist but no political power of a left movement. The closest thing is the recent wave of workers unionization efforts which is at least encouraging.
First let me preface this by saying that I vote against Republicans as often as I get the chance to. Which on the rare occasion someone runs against them where I live. It is usually a democrat. So I am a staunch Ally of the Democrats. That being said.
I am left of center of what is generally considered left in the united states. The left isn’t fucking anything up. The Left has been cut off from having a voice for nearly the last 100 years in the united States. Since at least McCarthy. What we’ve seen is a populous that has been beholden to an incestuous right wing relationship. Between two solidly right wing pro oligarch parties. Though to Liberal Democrats credit. They give lots of lip service to the concept of social democracy. And do eventually, once it no longer takes courage or bravery, do the right thing. Once they get tired of everyone shouting at them enough.
We need the economic tools we’ve spent the last hundred years vilifying. And we need a Resurgence of Education especially economic and political. People in the United States who think they are the left, and the way we are miseducated to define left are a joke. One that is crippling us and turning us against ourselves.
We need to rip and tear the largest corporations apart. We need to nationalize basic necessities. We need to abolish private or unaccountable funding of all elections that every level. And most of all we need to empower workers. It’s only a start. But those are the things we have to do. And unfortunately my generation the Xers. All approaching 50 and 60 years old have largely abdicated and lost their chance to really impact or make a change. We need younger representatives in touch with what’s going on now to write the laws that will lead us into the future. Instead of the regulations that will hold us in some nostalgically idealized past that never existed.
Yeah the idea Dems are left is hilarious to me, social democrats in the streets, neoliberal conservatives in the sheets. The last cry of the left as a concentrated political voice was contained in aspects of the civil rights movement, but those aspects, like MLK’s socialist insistence on economic redistribution through class projects, and his identity as a labor organizer, is completely whitewashed. It’s condensed to Rosa Parks sat on a bus, MLK had a dream, LBJ passed the law.
The Dems stop at disparity frameworks because that doesn’t threaten the political economy in any meaningful way, as long as people are fucked over proportionately it’s okay. Rising income inequality, lowered standards of living, eventually something has to give to keep this speculative real estate project of a country going.
David Brooks wrote a good article in the New York Times today that tries to help shift perspectives a bit to understand this. I’d highly recommend reading it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opinion/trump-meritocracy-educated.html
Got any free sources?
Seems 12ft.io doesn’t work for NYT, but archive.is does:
The ideal that “we’re all in this together” was replaced with the reality that the educated class lives in a world up here, and everybody else is forced into a world down there. Members of our class are always publicly speaking out for the marginalized, but somehow we always end up building systems that serve ourselves.
I love how Brooks can talk about class without bringing labor into it. Just a great example of liberals missing the damn point.
Then he goes on to talk about “open immigration” like that’s even close to what we have.
Yeah Brooks is one of those special kind of conservatives who seems to always miss the point in the most aspirational moralized way. Like he taught a class on “humility” that included readings of… himself. I also love his ever-Freudian book title “The Second Mountain” which is about how commitment to marriage is part of a fulfilling life… after he divorced his wife and married his younger assistant.
That is the farthest thing from a good article that I’ve read in some time. I suppose that it does give some insights to why trumpers act the way they do, however trying to align their actions with some sort of ‘we the elitists need to do a better job at not being elitist’ mentality is rather dumb at first glance, and a bit insidious upon closer examination.
To me it was helpful in trying to understand the perspective from which a group derive their actions. Much like you said. Usually a good first step in dealing with interpersonal conflict is to make an attempt to understand the other perspective. The end does seem to wander a bit, but I think there’s some truth in the general premise that a large group of people feel left behind (in various ways for various reasons).
Nationalism and nativism pops up every few generations. Always has. We beat it every time and it shuts up and the world dramatically improves for a while. As it improves, some people become nativists and nationalists, and the cycle repeats.
Google the “Know-Nothing Party.” Trump isn’t anything new at all.
Only problem is, just like a super hero, we have to win every time, and they only have to win once.
They were coming to kill him, and the spinless fuck Pence can’t even stand up for himself.
Mother must be getting tired of looking at his lack of balls when they get ready to shag.
We all should be. But that won’t happen if people go out there and vote, godamnit.
And don’t just vote to keep Trump out.
Vote to keep him and his party out of office.
We don’t get a vote of no confidence. There’s no box to check that says “No Trump”.
Also, Hillary got more votes than Trump did, so simply having more voters on your side doesn’t necessarily mean that Trump will lose.
True, but remember “did not vote” was higher then either Hillary or Trump first time around.
I was apathetic in 2016, I didn’t care enough to vote for her, or know enough to vote against Trump.
I voted against Trump on 2020, and now I’ve seen enough I will vote for Biden in 2024, assuming he is the nominee. Otherwise, it’s another vote against Trump.
My point is, there was a real disconnect back in 2016, and a lot of people just couldn’t be bothered.
Trumps base has only gotten smaller, but the people who know and want to keep him out has grown. I suspect we will see both significant turn out, and significant voter suppression in 2024.
…didn’t Trump get more votes in 2020 than in 2016? Has his base really gotten smaller?
Smaller as a percentage of the active electorate. Biden also got more votes than any other candidate before him… but that’s not unexpected with a positive population growth.
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What is Biden planning to do about the environment?
Believing that we need to switch courses is a good first step. The other thing is that the policies he managed to get passed are moving geothermal in the right direction. I heard for the first time about ground source heat pumps because of his incentives for their installation.
There’s also funding for public transit, charging infrastructure for EVs, sunsetting incandescents, etc. It’s not perfect but it’s better than some asshole up there saying how the whole thing is a Chinese hoax and chanting drill baby drill.
So … don’t vote? There absolutely is a No Trump voting option - only one - and it’s voting for Biden. There are several Yes Trump voting options: vote for Trump specifically, vote for a third party candidate, or vote for no one. It’s not that complicated.
Do the electoral map and electoral college make this difficult to achieve? Of course. But we can only win if we vote, and are guaranteed to lose if we don’t.
The fascists love voter apathy. Don’t do their job for them.
I never said “Don’t vote”. However, I do think that we should be able to vote “no confidence”, and if “no confidence” wins, they should have to do a while new election with new candidates.
I vote for candidates who offer me something more than “I’m not a fascist”.
There absolutely is a No Trump voting option - only one - and it’s voting for Biden.
Voting for Biden is… voting for Biden. It sounds like you don’t want to improve anything, you just want to avoid it getting worse. Or, at least, have it get worse slower.
Well the fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a “no confidence” vote. And if you don’t want Trump in office in 2024 the best thing you can do to prevent that is vote Biden. I’m not a huge Biden fan either but that’s how our system is in this country so it is what it is.
I get that you want another choice but this is the system we have to work within. If you really want it to be different, I recommend getting personally involved in politics.
That would still be mathematical spoiler, a no confidence vote would work on a ranked choice ballot though.
If you want the world to get better, don’t expect any politicians in any party to get the job done. Don’t vote for what you want, vote for the candidate that will make your job of making the world a better place easier or even possible
If it becomes illegal to feed the poor (e.g. parts of TX and other states I too think), speak against the government, etc how much change will be possible?
Unless you’re one of those accelerationists.
counterpoint: avoiding or slowing the rate at which things get worse is a good thing, and there is no other option outside your imagination
“Not a fascist” is only a sufficient condition in this case because the other guy is a fascist. I agree that in a world which wasn’t fucking insane, both candidates would qualify as “not a fascist” and it would be immaterial.
But under these circumstances - yes. Voting “Not a fascist” is literally an imperative, if imperatives can possibly exist at all in our ethical landscape.
I am scared of more years of liberalisations, war, inflation, recession
Given that the US is not at war, inflation has cooled down significantly, and there’s no recession, your only cause for concern would be liberalization. That’s a personal thing, I guess.
But I’m much more concerned about Republican book banning and that they seem comfortable with taking away women’s rights to make their own healthcare decisions. Their war on LGBTQ people is also deeply troubling. I really don’t need the government to decide what we can and cannot do in the bedroom.
It’s also troubling that Republicans are unwilling to take action on climate, they don’t want to look at universal healthcare or finding a way to make college affordable. They also don’t engage in racial justice and much, much more.
Their backward worldview is just a complete no-go.
I wouldn’t comment on the ham slices put on own eyes about denying war, recession and inflation, because I guess anyone is able to lie for own interests, I don’t really care about LGBT as we’ve wasted already too much time over the 0.% of population and have more broad issue to tackle this generation. Climate action without social justice is just propaganda, and for universal health care, we’re now on the 20th birthday of the democrat propaganda about implementing universal health care
But yeah anyone can pick their preferred liar
Okay so you’re just your average privileged white guy republican who only cares about your own best interests. Figures you don’t get the whole leftist thing lol
I have been socialist all my life, on the side of the working class, it’s already a shame that neoliberals and third way have injected them in the left wing, now imagine if they are the only left wing, I dont get those who want to be activist, you put a rainbow flag on your dick and then the second after you just lay off 10000 workforce and go fuck then all, that’s the left wing?
Hmm. Denying basic human rights to certain groups of people. Seems on par with the Republican Party. Sorry to say, but you’re a part of the problem.
You guys lay off hundreds of thousands of workers to increase CEOs bonus and shareholders interest then put on a rainbow flag and everyone is happy, if I am part of the problem it would be better that people like you went exctinct centuries ago
it would be better that people like you went exctinct centuries ago
What’s with all the violent rhetoric from your side of the aisle?
It won’t help anyone understand you let alone give you a chance to explain yourself. It’s really primitive.
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Because politics is not a topic for sensitive people who play the informed and socially aware chic person in their higher class circle, while drinking expensive wine, it’s sweat blood and pain, you come here holding the left wing flag for some 0.% population right, while the same people are exploiting the working class, and you expect to define what is and what is not the problem, how do you want me to reply, next time, don’t tell people they’re a problem, don’t hold the left wing book of truth, and probably people will answer in a friendly way
We can disagree. That’s part of democracy. But you cannot be violent. Not in actuality or in rhetoric. That’s exactly what makes people think of your side of the aisle as a bunch of uneducated baboons. And you just proved yourself to be just that.
I’m scared of freedom and American hegemony protecting the world and I have no understanding of economics
Conservatives for you lol
American hegemony protecting the world is the funniest / saddest joke I’ve read so far in my life, maybe read The Shock Doctrine or The Mafia Allies, or anything about south America/Allende, or anything coming out of wikileaks about the civilians killed in Iraq/Afghanistan or anything that your friends from Saudi Arabia have done in Yemen or what is going on in Palestine from your friends… Like you can’t make that up, but yeah good job world protector
Also I am not from US nor conservative, so I don’t really have to lie or hide or distort facts to defend my democrat party overlords
Leave ‘em, some people are just clowns who’ll defend the actions of ‘their team’ no matter what.
Might wanna give “Pax Americana” a Google.
So you get to kill brownies/blacks around the world, but it’s fine as long as the white ones are at peace?
Why are you so racist bro
I am responsible for what I mean, not what you understand, I think my message was the exact opposite, mean to aim for the world peace of everyone, everywhere, not to consider a good job having peace just for a fraction of the population of the world
If you love the global poor, you love neoliberalism and the pax Americana.
If you don’t, I guess be a commie or whatever
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Let’s see here.
Using data from Federal Reserve Economic Data | FRED | St. Louis Fed - https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2020/09/08/republicans-or-democrats-who-is-better-for-the-economy/
It appears there’s GDP growth during a Democratic presidency.
As far as war goes, filtering out the last 50 years, Republicans are the only ones that started wars. Gulf War, War in Afghanistan, Iraq War, and War on Terror. None of which has any justification (despite the last name for the last part, and counterterrorism organizations already exists) or how they’re ran for that matter.
Liberalization is based on acceptance of the fact that humans are naturally diverse, and we have different approach. At the end of the day, it is pragmatic with open-mindedness. Nothing to be scared off.
One calls for whataboutism so long to become whataboutist himself? What are you saying? Since Rep. have done it in the past we have to just suck it now?
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Obama has the resources to flee the country. The rest of us do not. What are we as individuals do when half of the country decides to abandon democracy and the rule of law? Asking for a friend…
America is the world’s only superpower. No matter where you run, global consequence will follow if Trump is re-elected.
