Cut your nose to spite your face then. You’ll keep paying for genocide even if you won’t “vote for it.”
The things you can do are support groups and politicians that will push the country in the direction you want it to move. Really think about what action (or inaction) does for the things that matter to you. You have an opportunity to do something to help reduce overall suffering and make the country and world a slightly better place.
The things you can do are support groups and politicians that will push the country in the direction you want it to move
So voting the greens is good because they’re moving the country in the direction of non-genocide? I’m European myself, but I don’t see how anyone could vote for the party whose candidate, during an ongoing genocide, says that “defends the right of Israel to defend itself” and claims that the US should have “the most lethal” fighting force in the world. Not most efficient, not most effective, not best funded: most LETHAL.
News are reporting 50 dead children
You know what would to be really, REALLY uncomfortable?
If Harris loses, there’s a strong chance that it might be over this terrible war. What a stupid, stupid reason to have to live through another Trump presidency.
The harris campaign is openly hostile to the anti-war anti-genocide vote. They are not interested in trying to get our votes. If they make the calculation that they need the anti-war vote to win they will try to appeal to us but they have decided (so far) that they don’t want us and don’t need us.
Don’t blame us for not voting for a candidate who doesn’t want our vote and is actively hostile to our position.
I agree with all of that. Except for the part about possibly appealing to the anti-war voter if it would help them win. There are some – Biden for instance – who clearly would rather lose than do that. I don’t know Harris well enough to judge.
I think it’s sad that people complain when someone says that they won’t vote for the lesser of two evils. It’s sad because it shows a profound misunderstanding about how democracy is supposed to work, and what they’re entitled to demand from their fellow citizens.
The largest voting block in every election is the depressed voter. And the reason is that our system is constructed to favor a broken two-party system even at the expense of civil participation that can solve our problems. Millions of people don’t vote because they see no benefit in doing so. The problem to be solved is that the political system has failed these people, not that they aren’t showing sufficient enthusiasm to do paperwork to satisfy the demands of people who feel invested in the outcome of elections.
The media falsely claims that each candidate has 47% support when really they each have about 30% support, and a larger number of people have not felt any interest in supporting either candidate. That’s a massive failing in reporting and political process.
So you have three options, all having a bad outcome on the most important thing you care about.
One of the options maybe has better outcomes on some other things you care about.
Another option has bad outcomes in almost everything you care about, plus maybe even a worse outcome to your most important thing.
The third option is to leave it up everyone else to pick between the first two.
I know what I’d pick, what will you do?
You’re absolutely ignoring their comment. If democrat voters showed a spine and conditioned their vote to an end to the genocide, the democrat leadership may decide that it’s worth it to cater to these voters to win the elections if that’s what they want. By enabling all their actions through “vote blue no matter who” you’re just degrading the democracy further, and postponing the choice 4 more years during which nothing will happen.
“If we hold the country hostage, they’ll definitely do what I want before the opposition makes everything irreversibly worse.”
The only two real options are both pro genocide, pro military industrial complex which tells me this country is fucked there’s nothing I can do to help that. All I can do is follow my conscience and my conscience won’t let me rest if I vote for genocide
Red and blue serve the same interests
What a stupid, stupid reason to have to live through another Trump presidency and continue the war unchanged.
FTFY
What a stupid, stupid reason to have to live through another Trump presidency and continue the war, with even more support than ever.
FTFY
Evangelicals like the genocide, brings their death cult closer to its end.
Except it really doesn’t since that world already ended in the mid 1800s, much like the Green Sahara period ending, and The Bronze Age Collapse ended the world 6000 years ago causing them to write that apocalyptic fictive.
How many horse drawn carriages do you see on a daily basis? How many oxen plow your fields? That was the norm until the mid to late 1800s. That world already ended. They just refuse to accept their own books.
Nah, your boy trump promises to end the war in mere hours (with industrial genocide).
So let’s not vote for kkkamala harriss because we care so much about Palestinians.
The genocide in Gaza is bipartisan, and the ongoing atrocities are taking place under a democrat administration.
If it’s bipartisan then you are free to vote based on other issues.
Harris has promised to enforce the laws of the US. If she does do, then The Hayes Act would prohibit any arms shipments to Israel. I’m not saying that is definitely what she intends to do, I am saying that is the most diplomatic she can be in the current political climate of the US, and still win, with the intention of deescalation in Israel while still supporting Ukraine.
The party is literally in the government right now. Biden is a rotting corpse who is obviously not making the decisions for US international policy, so the arm deals with Israel are with the full consent and approval of all the democrat elites. Harris won’t change this as it hasn’t changed for the past 80 years.
unchanged
Getting worse means changes are required… Trump wouldn’t make anything better but there is no reason to suggest Harris wants to make things better.
Hey at least he could never win again, silver lining lol. Then all we have to do is kill him when he tries to go dictator which honestly shouldn’t be that hard, the nearest secret service agent may even do it…extrajudiciously.
(I have a pet theory that one of the functions of the secret service is to quickly turn from bodyguards to assassins if a dictatorial president does attempt a real take over. I mean, why not? if it isn’t it should be.)
A world where Trump gets elected and then assassinated is a world where JD Vance is president of an America that elected Trump and then saw him assassinated. That’s how you get Gilead by 2025. That is NOT something to fantasize about. That’s a hell scenario. And it’s why people who think that there’s any solutions to our problem that come out of a gun are – and I mean this with all due respect – very, very dumb.
And to put a fine point on this: it’s not that this wouldn’t be a bad idea if not for JD Vance. It’s illustrative of how political violence in real life almost universally makes whatever problem might’ve motivated the violence suddenly far worse rather than better.
Biden:
Only a Russian bot would post this.
Putin is a cunt and Russia’s war of aggression in Ukraine must be stopped.
If I was on Russia’s payroll that should be enough to get me arrested or at least fired.
So either I’m risking my safety OOOOORRRR not everyone opposed to Biden’s support for Israel is a Russian bot. Golly gosh I wonder which one it is
If I was on Russia’s payroll that should be enough to get me arrested or at least fired.
You don’t need to be on Russia’s payroll to spew pro-Putin talking points. Plenty of American oligarchs will foot the bill.
So either I’m risking my safety
Its so crazy to be listening to a podcast interview with Daniel Santiago while reading this.
You don’t need to be on Russia’s payroll to spew pro-Putin talking points
You know, if criticizing killing is a “pro-Putin talking point,” then pro Putin talking points clearly aren’t always bad? Should I be in favour of murder to really show how much I hate Putin? Literally what the fuck are you talking about
I agree with Putin that the sky is blue too. I’m expecting my rubles in the mail any day now.
You know, if criticizing killing is a “pro-Putin talking point,” then pro Putin talking points clearly aren’t always bad?
If they are Pro-Putin, they must be bad. Or possibly an evil trick, trying to fool me into thinking Russians aren’t a D&D monster race that is ontological evil.
Should I be in favour of murder to really show how much I hate Putin?
I mean, the real irony of all this is in how politically tight Putin and Netanyahu have been over the last twenty years. What’s more, the over 80k Russian Jews migrating to Israel since the start of Russia-Ukraine hostilities have been at the forefront of the Israeli settler movement over the same period of time.
So… you could kinda sorta see a line between these two countries and their respective wars on their neighbors.
But that kind of analysis sends pro-Israel / anti-Russia journalists into a confused and angry spiral. So we go out of our way to avoid conflating these conflicts at every opportunity.
I agree with Putin that the sky is blue too. I’m expecting my rubles in the mail any day now.
Сила есть, ума не надо
I don’t think the sarcasm registered in this crowd
Liberal DNC shills when Americans don’t blindly support a centrist corporate lobby party in disguise:
You are schizophrenic
machineLearner
lolz
I hope you know that Lemmy isn’t shift work, right?
Is that a real comment or sarcasm?
Sarcasm.
But we’re posting under a link to The Intercept. I’m surprised we don’t have more folks saying it sincerely, given how critical the paper has been of the Biden administration.
Ah I see. Usually I’m not in favour of the sarcasm tag (ruins the joke) but it would have really helped here, lol.
Lebanese civilians and Lebanese homes are Hezbollah. It worked in Gaza, why wouldn’t it work in Lebanon.
If you’re not careful, you will be Hezbollah too.
Journalists and UN workers? That’s right, Hezbollah
Israel desperately trying to start WW3.
With the back of the west who would hands down win it thanks to the trillions of public money they spend on war. Watch out for the propaganda, iran or russia are not worst than us they are as much as bad.
Netanyahu is. The Israeli public is highly racist, but much less enthusiastic about total war than Bibi. Unfortunately, they don’t get a say. This isn’t a democracy.
The people are damningly complicit with their leaders and killing others.
It is telling the world a very dangerous message.
I wanna push back on that.
Israel has a population of 5.2 million people, and 2 million of them are Arab Muslims.
The representation of Israel that we see in their media and culture is a reflection of Apartheid. It erases the presence and will of literally millions of people who are the target of the brutality that we’re talking about.
I guess we’ll never know, huh?
If tomorrow Netanyahu get removed from office, there are probably 10 or 12 other genocidal war-mongers who could take his place.
I agree that the Israeli public is far more split on this issue, but the ultra nationalists have a pretty strong hold on power.
I honestly disagree.
He’s like Trump. There are certainly no shortage of knock-offs who are eager to try and replace him if he falls, but what we saw during the Republican primary is that none so far can quite achieve what he does. They’re all lesser copies.
Netanyahu is an extraordinary politician. Not a lot of his peers have what it takes to be as effective, dangerous, and destructive as he is.
Yeah how the fuck is this moving from Gaza, already a fucked up goings on in the world, to more and more of Lebanon? Why are governments of other countries still supporting this? What the actual fuck?
Why are governments of other countries still supporting this?
Why not? What are you going to do about it?
Israel has no sober friends.
I always wonder when people post this: how exactly would this go down?
Say when Iran sends troops/ships/whatever to support Hezbollah and get into a fight with the US, which other parties with significant military power would side with them? Russia is tied up and probably incapable, North Korea would be unlikely to want to commit suicide by using their nukes over this, …
Perhaps Erdogan would be the most realistic one but I don’t think their military would be very eager to follow those orders
Turkey is a NATO member, they might talk a good game, but they aren’t going to act against US interests. The blowback would be catastrophic for Erdogan and Turkey.
how exactly would this go down?
Israeli expansion draws a bigger fish into the conflict. Perhaps they start attacking Syria or Iran more directly. Perhaps they start bombing into Saudi Arabia or Jordan. Perhaps we see another collapse of the Egyptian military dictatorship due to unrest, and the replacement government isn’t nearly as Israel-friendly as the current regime.
Then the US has to intercede. But as the US intercedes in the Middle East, it draws in more countries - fighting breaks out in Iraq to expel what remains of the US military presence, fighting breaks out between Greece and Turkey again as US naval assets are withdrawn from the region, Russia capitalizes on US arms assets slowing down in Ukraine and makes a big push into Kiev. The US has military bases all over the world, so you don’t have to travel far in order to pull off a USS Cole style bombing.
You can see this spiral into a global conflict easily enough. We’re already seeing low-key upheavels all through the central African states, the disputed territory of Kashmir, and the Chinese/Japanese contested ocean territories. When the Primary Imperial Power is engaged in too many fronts at once, that creates a lot of room for the various minor powers to reassert themselves.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, the risk of regional escalation is very well understood even in the US state department.
Israel has already fought multiple wars with its neighbors, and the US never interceded (if by that you mean “sent US troops”). In fact, the whole purpose of arming Israel is partly so their soldiers do the fighting instead of Americans. I think the US expects Israel to handle Iran as it did Egypt, Jordan, Syria etc.
The US doesn’t really care about Central Africa or Kashmir, it has no strategic interests in those regions. So any wars fought there (and again, there have already been a few) will be mostly ignored by the US.
The US cares a lot about China, so this is the only place it might send its own US forces. But those will mostly be US Navy, since it doesn’t need to occupy new territory. And the Navy isn’t really needed elsewhere.
Israel has already fought multiple wars with its neighbors, and the US never interceded
The US has been sending military aid, military advisors, and military assets into the region around Israel for over 80 years. The US has stationed two different carrier groups to support the Israeli invasion of Gaza.
Right, which is why I specified “send US troops”.
Who do you think is manning those carrier groups?
Both have already returned home.
They’re on rotation. The USS Lincoln is set to replace the Roosevelt, which was replacing the Eisenhower.
Saudi Arabia is an enemy of Iran in the region, and Jordan even helped Israel intercept Iranian missiles. Why would Israel ever attack its allies in that conflict?
And Israel has been expanding into the West Bank since like '67. What changed that that would suddenly ‘draw in bigger fish’ now?
Saudi Arabia is an enemy of Iran in the region
China’s been brokering peace negotiations with them for some time as part of its Belt & Road Initiative.
Jordan even helped Israel intercept Iranian missiles
And Israel repaid the aid by bombing a Jordanian hospital in Gaza. Its a very one-sided relationship, heavily predicated on Jordanian security services being in bed with the IDF.
And Israel has been expanding into the West Bank since like '67.
Not since the '48 Nakba has Israel been this aggressive with its expansion. This is in no small part thanks to the flood of Ukrainian and Russian refugees serving as fodder for settlements.
Jordan even helped Israel intercept Iranian missiles
And Israel repaid the aid by bombing a Jordanian hospital in Gaza.
So what you’re claiming is they first tricked Jordan in helping them intercept those Iranian missiles, and then went back in time a couple of months to spray some bullets towards that hospital without Future-Jordan being aware? That just sounds too incredible for me. Even if they have that technology there are a million better uses for it
And Israel has been expanding into the West Bank since like '67.
Not since the '48 Nakba has Israel been this aggressive with its expansion. This is in no small part thanks to the flood of Ukrainian and Russian refugees serving as fodder for settlements.
Yeah you might want to look at the expansion after the '67 war first before you proclaim a couple of settlements are the most dramatic thing since '48, going to trigger WW3
So what you’re claiming is they first tricked Jordan in helping them intercept those Iranian missiles, and then went back in time a couple of months to spray some bullets towards that hospital without Future-Jordan being aware?
No
Probably China over estimating itself in Taiwan and hoping the US is too bogged down in Israel/Ukraine.
WWW3 when?
As soon as they produces enough weapons and brainwash enough people for it
Late October, Netanyahu will do whatever he can to help Trump win.
Let’s not forget that they bailed on ceasefire talks a few weeks ago because former president, and private citizen, Donald Trump violated the Logan Act by calling Netanyahu and telling him not to accept the ceasefire.
We didn’t call WW1 a world war until america joined 3 years into the European war. The second world war wasn’t called that until after the war had formally ended. Who knows.
Well, we wouldn’t want them to run out I guess. /s
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https://theintercept.com/2024/09/23/israel-bombs-lebanon-us-weapons/
