Theres enough racist people that hes a candidate

Thats it, lets stop putting our heads in the sand with ‘economic anxiety’

      • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        what a lack of dialectical materialism does to a mothafucka.

        “Latent racism” as if this shit is an inherent property of humanity and not an instilled ideology, an “original sin”. The christian moralism and idealism reeks from here.

        making absolutist moralist denouncements instead of trying to see the chain of events, the cause, and to fix it

        when Liberals and Idealists make racism into a “true” platonic eternal evil, all they are doing is admitting they will never fix or solve the issue and don’t know how to. They are even admitting that it’s somewhat correct or at least has a basis in reality because it’s an inherent law of the universe apparently that we can never escape. Racism was invented on a specific date, not too long ago, and it can be abolished. Anything that was created by people can be destroyed by people too.

          • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            the dangerous thing about moralism is it perpetuates itself. evil is never eradicated, it’s an eternal battle. It’s a resignation that contradictions cannot be resolved and that history is over

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          I’m not sure, I know a lot of enjoying life racists that love Trump. Country club going never been to a minority neighborhood but quote Tucker Carlson racist, own multiple properties and boats due to underpaying day laborers and call them wetback racist, north shore mansion Long Island Zionist that think the Dems are soft on Palestine racist.

          Like economic anxiety my ass, most of the wealthy people I know love Trump and love being racist.

          • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            The ideology of every society is the ideology of the ruling class. The rich are the most racist of all. The poor and workers don’t become racist until A) They are under severe economic pressure & B) They have the ideology of the rich drilled into their brain since birth

          • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            The ultra wealthy live in comfort because their racism has succeeded. That’s the end goal of the system, and they have a vested interest to reproduce the system for the continued existence of their class.

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              Don’t get me wrong, i’d happily put a bullet between the eyes of a racist if they stood in the way of the revolution. Think of all the Nazis that hardliner marxists like me have put into the ground. I’m not morally absolving them, I’m explaining the mechanism to break the cycle of their reproduction so we can put one last generation into the ground and then be done with it.

        • FearsomeJoeandmac [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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          I mean ive heard all these arguments before saying capitalism is the sole cause of racism, i dont agree with it.

          Racism will be here regardless of whether we are in capitalist shithead land or not, i think we have an obligation to speak out against it and organize against it.

          • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            I am saying it. Look at italians. Thye were swartly PoC and in our lifetimes they were upgraded to white because we needed more numbers to opress the other minorities with. Before that it was the Irish. Looks like pretty soon Brazilians will be white too. After them probably some Cubans than eventually all Cubans. The japanese were white for a while because we needed people to opress the Chinese with. They lost it when they stoped being a useful tool.

            White is not about race. It is a class under cpaitlaism. So long as there is money to be made we will always racialize new and interesting outgroups.

            • Hello_Kitty_enjoyer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              White is not about race. It is a class under cpaitlaism

              nah it’s race. If you have a rich black in a community full of whites they’ll just kill the rich black on the day SHTF

              can’t imagine being this scatterbrained

              • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                But which came first. Is he other because he is black? Or is he black because he us other. Compare a melungion person to a light skinned black person. In that situation race has almost nothing to do with race and everything to do with ses.

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              Look at italians. Thye were swartly PoC and in our lifetimes they were upgraded to white because we needed more numbers to opress the other minorities with. Before that it was the Irish

              you’re disproving your own point here. Irish and Italians entered the US at the same time. Irish racism died out in the early-mid 1900s, Italians faced mild racism as late as the 1990s, and still do if they’re dark enough

              “Racism is economic bc we needed to water down the definition of white to ally against even darker hordes” isn’t the winning argument that you think it is

              • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                Yeah, the Irish were made cops so that put them up the class structure. Turning men at arms into full citizens was a classic move. There is no fundamental difference between them, they just found themselves in diffrent places in the super structure and were treated diffrent as material circumstances would dictate.

          • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            No one is saying capitalism is the sole cause of racism, that’s completely ahistorical. But what is historical fact is the capitalism greatly exacerbates existing racisms.

            • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              capitalism is the primary cause and engine of racism. Racialism was invented in the 17th century alongside the mercantile transition into capitalism. Capitalism and Racism were born together and will die together, they are twins.

                • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  No it was not, the concept of race was invented around this time. Perhaps you mean prejudice and ethnic sectarianism? That certainly existed. Race did not. Might behoove you to do some reading on this subject before pontificating with false confidence

              • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                This only makes sense if you define “racism” exclusively as “white supremacism”. But you’re not saying much at that point. You’re just saying racism as we currently experience it is a product of capitalism. Which, duh, everything is.

                Racism existed before capitalism and can exist after. Examples: the Caste System, the Khmer Rouge. Shit even Christopher Columbus was about as racist as you can get and that’s right before capitalism kicks off. The Racialism you’re describing is just the ideological petina that capitalists put on their pre-existing racism.

            • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              I am. Race isn’t real. It is an artificial construction we shape to whatever we please. There is no connectivity tissue to it. If capitlaism didn’t enforce it it would wither and die on the vine.

              • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                Yes race is totally artificial, and capitalism has invented an intense apparatus to justify it. But the belief in it and the economic forces that drive that belief will exist as long as there is inequality and scarcity. Communism would eliminate that but there are other systems than communism and capitalism. They just wouldn’t be all pseudo scientific about it like the capitalists would.

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                  capitalism has invented an intense apparatus to justify it

                  You have the causality backwards. Capitalism doesn’t invent things to justify racism, racism is invented to justify Capitalism. Capitalism required slavery, so it required an ideology that made it OK for certain people to become slaves. The racism was post hoc justification for what Capitalism already intended to do.

                  Europeans didn’t go “look at these black Africans, I hate them so much I might as well enslave them” and then stumble accidentally into capitalism. They realized they required cheap start-up labor for the primitive accumulation of fixed capital and went out looking for it.

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                I have never heard of Doug and Ben and don’t know what they’re all on about. Class reductionists are a thing but idk if that’s what they are without reading their words.

                • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                  Forget about class reductionism, how about any class analysis whatsoever? OP’s “analysis” is pure race reductionism and moralism without a single ounce of Marxist thought instilled.

                  Apparently using any class analysis whatsoever or referencing factual historical origins of things is “class reductionism” now?

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        It’s true. America is such a segregated society it is almost inevitable, so long as the construct of race exists. The anxiety causes even good-natured people to do awkward shit sometimes. But the elites will literally use anything they can to divide us up. Skin is one of the easiest, humans are such visual creatures and it’s the biggest organ, and we are segregated anyway. The construct of race works better than the elites could have even predicted though.

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        It’s true not just economics anything that impedes our ability to empathize with one another will create the possibility of this. Though I think for demogogues economic stress it’s the easiest to exploit and misdirect to protect from “levelling”. Also geographic segregation makes it much easier to “otherise” people etc etc regardless. Look at the Brits and the Irish and they are all pale af but Brits wanted the land so they created a construct to legitimize it.

    • Lussy [any, hy/hym]@hexbear.net
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      Yeah! Economic anxiety and racism go hand in hand, except for, like, half the time but every other instance than when it doesn’t

      • diego_maradona [none/use name, any]@hexbear.net
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        Yes of course even for the wealthy they are going to invent whatever construct they need to justify their own position in their own head. The capital is so concentrated though so there aren’t too many of that kind.

  • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    As someone who is trans and queer, a POC, and coming from an immigrant family- I have to agree with u/Z_Poster365, this post and the comments come distastefully close to spoilerism (against the most basic simple stance against literal genocide).

    Trump supporters are ghouls and whether they like it or not, racist through their willingness to stand alongside and fend for racism, yes- but the nasty, honest truth is that the same goes for all of Klanmala’s supporters, with the disgusting caveat even that many more of those are not simply ignorant, but genuinely vile to their core, having seen the full extent of what they support and yet still making their peace with it.

    Both sides (if the sides of 100% Hitler, orange flavor vs. 100% Hitler, coconut flavor are "separate sides) are truly and irreconcilably wretched. They might take minor detours in how they rationalize it, but at their core is imperial identity politics (that the lives of the “enlightened west” are worth infinitely more than those of the global south) and imperial anxiety (that those they would see as their slaves if not exterminated altogether are liberating themselves).

    • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      Thank you. Racism is not when white dudes with cowboy hats feel afraid of Black teens and call the cops on them. Racism isn’t even when white ladies clasp their purse and feel afraid when they see an Arab at the airport. Those individual instances of racist behavior are part of the system of racism; racism isn’t evil, it’s not Darth Vader or Voldemort, it’s a system. And, as a system, it’s modular and multivariate. It’s a complex phenomenon full of contradictions, like the liberal imperial identity politics you mention which exist in contradiction to the less hegemonic “white working class” aesthetics of the American right. But both aspects are part of the same social system. And like any social system, it exists within the broader context of our social structure, divided into its economic base and the superstructure, as part of the superstructure. And as we should all understand by now, the superstructure is shaped by the based. They are inseparable. Trying to explain racism without understanding that the system of racism operates within capitalism as one of several mechanisms that maintains the economic base is a fool’s errand.

      • Lussy [any, hy/hym]@hexbear.net
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        Racism is not when white dudes with cowboy hats feel afraid of Black teens and call the cops on them.

        I don’t know about you but that’s the most salient part of racism. Not sure I give a fuck about the metaphysical analysis when my literal skin color is being used to impale me with gunfire or make my conditions worse than oh, I don’t know, fucking yours or the average white dude on this here site.

        Palestine and Nicaragua are literally the last thing on my mind when im living my day to day life, talking about these things while I live in despair might as well be a form of escapism

        • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          I don’t know about you but that’s the most salient part of racism. Not sure I give a fuck about the metaphysical analysis when my literal skin color is being used to impale me with gunfire or make my conditions worse than oh, I don’t know, fucking yours or the average white dude on this here site.

          Sure. That’s understandable. My objection to this is that, despite the fact that the immediate violence that you are forced to face is the most salient part of racism, not engaging with the entire system critically from a materialist perspective leaves you with a poor position to fight against it. Short sightedness is the essence of liberalism, being unable to see the forest for the trees. This is how you end up fighting racism with Black capitalism, instead of fighting racism, understood to be one of several systems that reproduce capitalism, with socialism.

      • SadArtemis [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        Admittedly, I hadn’t quite considered racism in the way you describe (though I’m aware of that take of discrimination + social power = racism).

        I’d say I fall somewhere between you and @Lussy@hexbear.net in this regard, though I also feel that my own experiences with racism and racial alienation and how they have shaped my mentality in- well, just about everything, do also result in me having an immense bias I don’t know if I can entirely overcome. Logically I agree more with you and that aforementioned (racism requires power) take- mentally it is hard to do, FWIW I will admit that I myself similarly cannot fully divorce myself mentally from identity politics (though “imperial idpol” as I described in my previous comment was in response to the “white idpol” mentioned in the post- and I do think is absolutely a thing, though idpol as an… atomization of the proletariat and humanity in general does probably have an infinite number of takes that can be derived from the concept- imperial idpol being just a particularly vile and ubiquitous one across the imperial cores).

        Since I @'ed Lussy though, figure I’d respond also here in saying-

        Palestine and Nicaragua are literally the last thing on my mind when im living my day to day life, talking about these things while I live in despair might as well be a form of escapism

        While not dunking on you for that take, I have to infinitely disagree with it. Solidarity is not escapism, and if we cannot hold onto it even in the worst despair then we are both truly doomed, and at least somewhat wretched. We can’t look away, particularly not if we want others to stand by us in turn.

        I get what you’re saying, 100%, in regards to living in despair (I do as well)- and sometimes we need to just live disconnecting from these things for a while, because it isn’t healthy and we can’t survive like that while living with our own despair ourselves. But we can’t disconnect from it altogether, when it comes up (and it always does) we cannot keep silent and keep to ourselves.

        Honestly on some level I feel if I were to do it- for those who do it as well- honestly, perhaps we would deserve it then. Surely we would have asked for it, by looking away from those in even further despair and facing literal industrial genocide or kill squads. Think about it and just what you said (though I don’t think the full meaning of it was intended)- is this what we want to be? Are we any better than those who are persecuting us for our race if we do so? Maybe it’s just me and my ex-Catholic mentality, but I reject it (the empire) in its entirety even when it is far away doing more horrifying things to others I don’t know in Palestine and Nicaragua, I would like to think I would reject it and would not look away or shy from it even if it kills me.

      • Hello_Kitty_enjoyer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        And like any social system, it exists within the broader context of our social structure, divided into its economic base and the superstructure, as part of the superstructure. And as we should all understand by now, the superstructure is shaped by the based

        And the base also shapes the superstructure.

  • xiaohongshu [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    I dunno about that. Based on the osmosis I get from an old co-workers group chat, a dude from India is definitely voting for Trump after getting his citizenship last year. Another from Hong Kong is like 80% for Trump at this point. And that’s just what’s being discussed in the open.

    I think you’re underestimating how much it is really coming down to “what is Biden (Harris) going to give me?” and that Trump is at least pretending to promise something.

    Also, don’t be surprised that Trump has a solid hold on a certain bloc of non-white immigrants. The “Democrats are the party of handout for lazy people and going to bankrupt the country” and the “Republicans are the party for hardworking people” stereotypes continue to hold in the minds of many people who emigrated to the US.

    I got to know many Chinese immigrants in the US when I used to live there and most first gen immigrants were solid Republican voters. They really bought into the “government spending billions on handout for lazy people is why our economy is going so badly” narrative.

    • LigOleTiberal [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      I hate a lot of the immigrants the US lets in because they are all these ultra-capitalist greedy bootlickers from around the globe. the US has been doing this for the last century (since the russian revolution), and I think it is making the US an even more right wing pro-capitalist hellscape.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        That is the entire point of this immigration, as Samir Amin states:

        Successive waves of immigration also played a role in reinforcing American ideology. The immigrants were certainly not responsible for the poverty and oppression that lay behind their departure for the United States. But their emigration led them to give up collective struggle to change the shared conditions of their classes or groups in their native countries, and adopt instead the ideology of individual success in their adopted home.

        Adopting such an ideology delayed the acquisition of class consciousness. Once it began to mature, this developing consciousness had to face a new wave of immigrants, resulting in renewed failure to achieve the requisite political consciousness. Simultaneously, this immigration encouraged the “communitarianization” of U.S. society. “Individual success” does not exclude inclusion in a community of origin, without which individual isolation might become insupportable. The reinforcement of this dimension of identity—which the U.S. system reclaims and encourages—is done to the detriment of class consciousness and the forming of citizens.

        Communitarian ideologies cannot be a substitute for the absence of a socialist ideology in the working class. This is true even of the most radical of them, that of the black community.

  • Z_Poster365 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    Is there anyone here who really believes Kamala’s campaign core isn’t imperialist war and genocide and smug bourgeois paternalism?

    There’s enough genocidal people that she’s a candidate

    That’s it, let’s stop putting our heads in the sand with ‘harm reduction’

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    That’s his core, yeah, the people who will vote for him no matter what. But I don’t think those people alone are enough to give him a victory. If he wins, it’s because it’s that core plus the people who feel economic pressure, which generally translates to voting for whoever isn’t currently in the White House.

  • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    That was his core demographic that won him the 2016 primaries. He had a bigger coalition than that for the 2016 general. But he ain’t got shit but that core now.

    “Economic Anxiety” is just liberal weasel words for economic failures of capitalism, but those are real and they do cause racism. Some people are just raised racist. But the worse the economy does the more racism you well see.

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    its wild that a few people in this thread are acting like racism is like an unexplainable part of human nature lol. literally falling into a racist idea because you just refuse to understand dialectical and historical materialism i guess. idealist nonsense! read stalin!

  • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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    Most of the Harris voters I know also talk a lot about economic anxiety. But they do the same shit…Yes Harris will be bad for the economy but Trump will be WORSE! Libs are incapable of genuine thought

  • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    The small whites are for sure afraid they will be treated economically like a minority. That is the anxiety. They don’t want to lose the benefits of their white privilege. So kidna

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      The small whites are for sure afraid they will be treated economically like a minority

      No, they’re afraid they’ll be treated equally. Equality feels like oppression

      If you actually treated them like a minority they would all sudoku in like 3 days from the shock

      • anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        no, they don’t think they will be treated equally; it is an inherent part of colonialism (from which white supremacy arose) to condition a projection of a ‘reversed consequence’ if power is let go by making the colonized subject into a ‘dangerous’ and ‘unpredictable’ embodiment of ‘barbarity,’ against whom the colonizer is instead a ‘civilized’ and ‘rational’ embodiment of ‘good’ in dialectical antithesis to it. It is where the ideological dynamic of ‘civilizing the savages’ comes from in the material relation of colonialism and its white supremacist expression in history (how European colonialism unfolded and reified its relations). ie. there is an underlying understanding in the white supremacist consciousness that “they want to do to us what we did to them or worse, and will if we let them” (the implication being, we can never ‘let them,’ meaning never give up vigilance and power over them, securing the colonial relation).

        It comes out very obviously from white liberals in conversations about decolonization when they are pressed that they are not to and can not insert themselves into deciding ‘how’ the colonized ‘should’ carry out decolonization. There is a deep primal fear in this projection which dialectically necessarily grows out of the material relations of colonialism and colonization; as for there to be a colonizer there must be a colonized — which inherently necessitates dehumanization and justifications for ‘why’ maintaining control and dominance over the colonized subject is “right,” “natural,” or “the only option.” Which then cyclically reinforces the material relations to the material base — land, resources, labor, means of production and subsistence and reproduction of labor. Cyclically because then every act of defiance and resistance against this colonial relationship by the colonized, in the perspective of this superstructural ethos, ‘justifies’ the claim of the ‘dangerousness’ and ‘barbarity’ of the colonized and so the colonizer’s need to ‘keep them under control’. As we saw it also with oct7 in Palestine. As we see in every uprising and riot of colonized people or major push against the structures and systems of their subjugation.

        I recommend The Wretched of the Earth by Fanon for a good understanding of colonialism and decolonization and all its inter-relations.

  • Lemmygradwontallowme [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Well, lemme put it this way, beyond serving rentier western hegemonic capitalist masters of shareholders and lenders (Ego)

    Trump appeals to the petit-bourgeois (read: “small” business) settler-colonial descendants of Amerikkka, that promise further radical rightist change to the nation, regardless of how dirty or feasible it is (ID)

    And Kamala appeals to the labor aristocrat PMC tendencies of it, that hope to maintain the bloody imperial hegemony as is, and its image (Superego)

    Both still further Amerikkka’s interest in different faces, under the same Ego…

  • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    That’s the core of Trump’s movement, but the cultural and political membrane surrounding it stands in for industrial American conservatism which alot of non white nationalists buy into