It’s no secret that Lemmy is shaping up to be a viable alternative to Reddit. The issue it faces however is that it’s still relatively niche and not many people know about it. I propose that we change this. By contacting the mods of large subreddits and asking them to make and promote relevant Lemmy communities we could substantially increase the amount of people who discover the fediverse. What’s more, I don’t think this is would be a hard sell considering many mods are already pissed off with Reddit due to their API changes. I believe that this is the time to act, so this is a call to arms, to help grow the fediverse into the future of social media!
How about we just forget about trying to beat anyone and just get on to using the platform.
Reddit won’t die anytime soon.
Lemmy won’t become popular anytime soon.
It took Reddit years before it became a major platform known by millions. It will take Lemmy years to gain notoriety among millions. Give it time, enjoy what it so now because in a year, two years or three or four years from now, we’ll all be wishing for the good old days when Lemmy just started and we were able to enjoy the simple system it is now.
Reddit really did benefit from the fall of Digg though - this was about just shy of 20 years ago? Digg was where Reddit is now, thoroughly upsetting its user base with wholesale changes to the content of the site that nobody liked, and Reddit capitalized on that, and stole Digg’s thunder.
I think Lemmy can potentially do the same. For a second, it looked like Squabbles/Squabblr was going to be the winner, but the last I checked, they imploded after some controversy.
(I came here from Reddit, incidentally - the user interface is very intuitive.)
Yeah lemmy can do the same, but begging redditors to switch won’t help anything. I was part of the digg migration, nobody on reddit ever posted on digg to go switch. I just searched for something else, and reddit was there. I certainly didn’t spend a second thinking about digg afterwards, and i wont think about reddit either.
Doesn’t seem like most Reddit users care. There is still way more activity on Reddit then here, and that probably isn’t changing anytime soon. And right now Reddit still has better content since it seems mostly Lemmy is just posts about Reddit.
Look at the comments per day of any major subs such as
https://subredditstats.com/r/AskReddit
The 3rd party apps shutdown made a huge impact on the number of comments. Activity is still there, but much less
Agreed, lots of naysayers here for some reason
I know right? People think that Lemmy will grow “naturally”, but Lemmy is not a plant, there is nothing natural about this process. If people want it to grow, actions must be taken just like the OP proposed.
Naturally meaning make lemmy a good experience and people will come. Begging redditors to come won’t help anything. Hell, OP and anyone else is free to just set up an instance where a bot reposts whatever gets posted to reddit front page, or a specific sub. That’s a fine idea i think to help lemmy grow, as is any idea that will improve the Lemmy experience. But there’s no need to spam reddit mods and ask them to help grow lemmy.
free to just set up an instance where a bot reposts whatever gets posted to reddit front page, or a specific sub.
https://lemmit.online/ is that instance
Naturally meaning make lemmy a good experience and people will come.
They can’t come if they don’t know about Lemmy. I came here, because I’d seen many posts about it on Reddit. You probably heard about it from someone too. We’re on the internet in 2023: people don’t go beyond first few links on Google, they rarely leave big platforms and aggregators like Facebook and Reddit. While I agree that this particular strategy raises questions (I don’t see why Reddit mods would care), I support the cause.
People know about it already, they find it confusing, hard to use, you cannot block an instance, there are no multireddits, Sync is still in beta, the main instance is down half of the time.
All of these points should be addressed for Lemmy to become mainstream
You make it sound like one blocks another, but we already have a lot of people and there’s no reason why we can’t attract more. You’re here despite these issues.
They’ll know about it when it’s a good product. And , they do know about it, every fuck spez thread had lemmy memtioned as an alternative. At this point, any redditors who cared about the api changes know about lemmy. And that’s fine if you want to go on reddit and spam lemmy links.
But it makes no sense to go to current reddit mods who are committed to volunteering for reddit six weeks after all this shit went down. They like reddit and dont plan on leaving, if they did they would have six weeks ago.
Critical mass has high inertia.
Honestly, I would rather Lemmy attract its own community naturally rather than it be the place all redditors pipe into. I think most people who have already come from there can agree the culture is not really conductive to quality discussion, and we’ve started to see some of that leak into Lemmy as well.
Rather than just copy/paste reddit’s users and culture, we should try to develop both on their own. Create an environment that users want to spend their time on. Then through word of mouth on other platforms they entice people here. I don’t think just being the place redditors flood after every fuckup is healthy for the growth of the platform. As a Mastodon user, I’m kinda glad it isn’t the primary platform Twitter refugees are flocking to.
Lemmy attract its own community naturally
Do you want to see more content, or you don’t?
I personally want to see more good content. Quantity means nothing if the quality isn’t up to par.
more good content
Well, it still counts as “more content” which is usually on par with user count.
If all I wanted was more content, I could make an LLM hallucinate something for me. That’d be content. Not very good content but tonnes of it.
Is that what you want?
Since when AI content is compared to user content? Why do you change topic?
I prefer 100 quality posters to 100,000 shitposters.
What is “naturally”? I heard about Lemmy through reddit during the exodus. Was that unnatural?
I’m not sure the culture aspect is unique to Reddit though. The culture seems more or less platform independent IMO.
What can I do then?
Not this again…
Lemmy isn’t everyones’ cup of tea. Reddit, despite the API shenanigans, still does what people want.
People are not moving here from Reddit if they haven’t already. They’d sooner go to Discord. Less cognitive load, and their subs already have servers set up. Lemmy has a 5 communities different servers for each sub and most will be inactive, so it’s already a losing battle.
Make Lemmy it’s own thing, rather than aspiring to be the 2nd head of the Hydra. Organic growth is good, sustainable. Boom and bust wholesale migrations look like failed hostile takeovers.
People are not moving here from Reddit if they haven’t already.
I think you’re underestimating Reddit’s ability to continue degrading the Reddit experience with their ham-fisted attempts to maximize revenue.
I don’t disagree with that. Reddit will keep burning bridges with it’s oldest users. old.reddit will be the next on the chopping block and that will be the death knell for desktop Reddit for a sizable number of people.
But I think you’re underestimating the average modern Redditor’s reluctance to jump ship. 3rd party apps were not even something they knew existed. Most never used reddit before the redesign. They already used the app. You cant miss what you never had.
I agree on all points. But I‘d say both things can be true at the same time.
Maximize attention brought to lemmy as an alternative so that the last salvageable soul on reddit gets the message while not shooting for copying reddit (like actual copying of posts for example and recreating every sub etc).
While I am very much in agreement with your arguments, I feel like your rhetoric is a little black and white albeit entertaining. Yes, there will be people going to discord because mental load, yes there will be people unwilling but some might still not have gotten the message.
So I say keep telling them but don’t try to „sell it“ if that makes sense.
Edit: fixed half finished sentence
Maximize attention brought to lemmy as an alternative so that the last salvageable soul on reddit gets the message
Have a look at this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/1507unf/post_why_dont_reopen_here_completely/
People were being told to move to Lemmy, but they fiercely refused, sometimes being utterly agressive.
And this is a Unixporn community, which is supposed to be aware of FOSS.
Reddit users don’t want to be solved.
I have made similar experience with the community I moderate (linux specific).
There is an easy explanation for this:
A lot of people in IT are autistic (as am I) and we don’t react well to change (often). That plus reddit can be a cesspool at times explains why they react this way. But although I hate change, I got the message because people didn’t give up on me. I was subjected to arguments without being lectured all the time so I could explore in my own pace. So I won‘t give up on others. Easy as that. :)
You make a good point, that could be part of the issue.
Happy to have you here in any case!
That’s very nice of you to say. Thank you. I‘m very glad to have found this place. And I like it a lot more than reddit for multiple reasons. :) have a good one.
I have looked at old.reddit.com recently and I loved it. Though I had never used it in past.
Now I can understand why people like it so much.
Old.lemmy.world is similar. There are other Lemmy reskins that get at that Internet of 10 years ago look.
There are some compromises with old.Lemmy that I expect to get ironed out over time but for typical use, it is nice and minimalist.
I think the problem was Lemmy didn’t have the apps in place ready to take advantage of reddits API deadline. Loads of people come to Lemmy but it wasn’t up to scratch yet. So they went back to what they already knew.
Now big apps like sync are on board. If they give lemmy another go I reckon they will stay this time.
This was basically me. Looked around for an app I liked, couldn’t find one for Lemmy but there was an okay-ish open source one for reddit. Used that for awhile but kept an eye on Lemmy.
My only issue now is that i want to ignore an couple instances (lemmynsfw, and the like) but I can’t… Can I? There isn’t enough content in “subscribed new” and find I’m going to “all new” but there’s too much NSFW… Maybe I’m on here too much.
I had a similar experience.
I’m using “Connect.” For every post I see, there’s both a “block this community” and “block this instance” option. After I started making use of these, my feed (while still limited) became much more palatable. Presumably other apps have similar functionality, but I cannot comment definitively.
I use Voyager and have had the same experience as you. I blocked some communities from lemmynsfw and now even my feed from all of the fediverse is pretty good.
They open Sync, they they see they can’t post, they leave again.
I know post is coming in the next hours, but it’s the same for multireddits, instance blocking, account migration, etc.
Assuming the prerequisite of joining Lemmy doesn’t skew this, people who post would be a small minitority. Might be similar for the other features you mentioned.
I think you’re grossly overestimating the ability of FOSS to reach “regular” people. 99.9% of Redditors haven’t even heard of Lemmy. There are assuredly very many people using Reddit who would be very happy to switch to something better.
You’re not wrong with any of your points, I’m just saying there’s no reason to discourage a “get the word out” campaign. People can make their own choices, but only after they know what the options are.
Have a look at this thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/1507unf/post_why_dont_reopen_here_completely/
People were being told to move to Lemmy, but they fiercely refused, sometimes being utterly agressive.
And this is a Unixporn community, which is supposed to be aware of FOSS.
As someone who recently was wondering what my alternatives to Reddit were, then stumbling here recently, I think what we need is a good personality to do a 3 minute YouTube tutorial that gets out on Reddit.
I still don’t fully understand the difference between the two, but what I do know is encouraging. But it took effort to discover that difference. Reddit is apathetic. A three minute video may be short enough to get people to understand.
Just needs to show what it looks like (similar to Reddit with sync and I’m sure others), then a brief description of how it differs under the hood, and then how to set up an account and subscribe to a community.
I think a more appropriate approach is just to mention lemmy to your circles of friends and try to get any redditors you personally know to give lemmy a try, at least get the app installed so they can browse both reddit and lemmy. Lemmy won’t be able to handle millions upon millions of new people, especially ones with no guidance, but communities aren’t built overnight and we should do our best to get those who could use lemmy to use lemmy, one at a time. We shouldn’t be trying to overthrow reddit, just give a viable alternative to those willing to try one. It’s the more organic approach.
Grass roots wins Vs marketing.
Make that healthy root system grow!
Have a look at this post, we had a similar discussion there: https://lemmy.world/post/3074361
Long story short, the platform still needs a bit of work before being able to really move communities. Some examples exist (lemdro.id, piracy, startrek) but those are tech savvy audiences, there would be a lot more friction with more generalist communities
I fully agree with you. And I want to emphasize that the main issue is that if you start advertising Lemmy like OP suggest before it’s “fully ready” to give the best experience to this people, they will decide now that lemmy is not for them and after that it’s very difficult to make they try again and change their mind.
Exactly the mistake threads just made, trying to capitalize on twitter’s rate limiting fiasco. The “general public” is extremely fickle, and Reddit will give us more opportunities.
I don’t know, I feel like the issue (at least part of it) with Threads wasn’t that it needed more time in the oven, but that it was birthed pre-shitified. Remember the steps: good to the users, then good to the advertisers, then good to themselves. Threads basically tried to skip step 1. It felt every bit as manipulative as the Facebook feed, because it effectively was.
It didn’t come through feeling like a breath of fresh air from Twitter in any way except (to your point) the lack of rate limiting. But even without that, the mindset and motivation behind Threads makes it dead on arrival. It has nothing to offer except being “not Twitter”, and the cold, corporate hand is very evident. Turning off the rate limiting, Twitter got those users back.
The lesson there is you have to have something the entrenched platform doesn’t if you want to keep the users. Lemmy is already ahead in that department simply by having 3rd party apps.
Server issues and quits need to be addressed, and mobile apps Ned to be polished. If the UX isn’t at least on par with Reddit, then it will only hurt to advertise now to the general public.
It also needs about 1000% less hostility when it comes to anything beyond superficial discussion. Basically every news thread just gets brigaded by idiots trolling with pictures of pig shit. I get it, internet is not serious business, but in terms of actual discourse at the moment, this place is worse than Facebook.
Yeah, I’ve run into this here. I posted a question to one of the posts asking why it was such a big deal, and all the sudden I’m a corporate defender. I don’t think this is a reddit, lemmy, or anything issue, it’s just internet and echo chambers. If you don’t reply with a “OMG YES SO TRUE OMG” then you are a dissident.
Wow, my experience is very opposite this. It sounds like you’re describing reddit to me honestly. I’ve seen way less hostility here compared with Reddit
It depends on what content you consume I guess. On Reddit, news subs generally enforce decorum pretty strongly which really eliminates outright trolling. On lemmy there is the opposite of this in many places - lemmygrad and hexbear openly state that it is their goal to shit up threads to deny “shit libs” a platform, and the mods on several major instances seem to openly allow it.
So if you never consume that kind of content on either platform, you’d never notice the relative toxicity of lemmy.
Wait, do you any links to them admitting that? I believe you, but it’s a good idea to have that saved.
I say this as someone who hates tankies just as much as the next dude, but that community isn’t really productive nor helpful. If you seriously have an issue with lemmygrad there are many instances that have defederated from them (i think sh.itjust.works is?). A community like that does nothing but to bring drama within the lemmyverse. Yes, their views are at times abhorrent but you are just provoking a community that already has major issue with large portions of the lemmyverse. We really should leave that toxic drama stirring behind.
You just asked for evidence.
Didn’t you just say “it’s a good idea to have this stuff saved”
That’s why instances need to defederate and block lemmygrad and hexbear, to discourage that behavior.
This is neither here nor there, but the only thing I hate with a burning passion more than right wingers is the tankie filth that pervades those instances.the mods on several major instances seem to openly allow it.
Mods AND Lemmy developers.
I don’t see that either. People have disagreed with me politely and intelligently here which is just good conversation.
Come visit !worldnews@sh.itjust.works if you want quality discussion!
One thing that annoys me coming from Reddit is, that there isn’t just one group of each theme. You have for example gaming groups on several instances and you can either chose to subscribe to a number of those or chose the one you like.
But in the end, one will be the go-to group, and wouldn’t that centralize the most popular groups?
(Honest question, I’m new to Lemmy and the thoughts behind it)
instances are like countries with their own constitution (rules) and police (mods). This means that two communities in different instances may seem the same, but they are not, because they have to follow the rules and culture of their instance.
Just like a Technology club in Japan will not be the same as the Technology club in the US because they will be culturally different. I think it will take some time for the Fediverse to think this way.
For me, this is better. Instead of having one giant technology community where your comments and posts are drowned out, we can have different technology communities with their own culture and norms, just like we visit different countries. Your comment and posts will be not drowned out.
It is a different paradigm to the centralised one of Reddit.
Yep, if you’re not from the US, instances are vastly superior.
Imagine all the times people from around the world asked for plumbing help on Reddit and got hit with “that ain’t up to code, buddy, get to ass down to Howm Deeepo” 😂
Americans do tend to assume the internet revolves around them, as they’re a bit insular and don’t see that it really, really, really doesn’t
A lot of that is social media/algorithmic too. It wasn’t until I start migrating to Lemmy (specifically lemm.ee) that I started seeing a lot of varied content.
Seriously? Aren’t the anti-USA comments getting a bit tired by now?
This is not an anti-American comment, but a fact. The USA is a superpower and a big country. As a superpower, americans don’t need to be informed about what happens in the world because it doesn’t affect them. Their country is the source of world power. And Americans tend to travel within their country because it’s big and full of tourist attractions.
Compare that with Canada, which has 40 million people. We need to be aware of every single decision the US makes so that the country can adapt. There is a famous quote from Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau: “Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.”
Hmm, you know how the Tarrifs are limiting trade? I don’t want to get political, but when trade slows, that is when it becomes obvious that USA is NOT immune to whatever happens to the rest of the world.
Every pyramid has a foundation.
Yes, the USA is a big country and a superpower.
But things that happen in the world do have major impact on the country and all of its citizens. The need to be up to date and aware of world events is critical. Everyone should be educated. It is the only way to make informed decisions.
You may not have meant it as an anti-American trope but it came off that way. Even the comment you attribute to Trudeau is a thinly veiled insult to our country. That is not lost on me or others here in the fediverse or other American citizens. The anti-USA bashing has become hackneyed and decidedly juvenile.
I expect better from you.
They are tiring honestly, I agree
These two comments prove my last sentence
You don’t notice the “anti”-everything comments, only the ones you perceive as “America-hate”
And by the way, nobody hates you, you’re just really bad at dealing with sarcasm
No, they don’t. I was addressing specifically the anti-American sentiment that seems to be the “hip thing to do”. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just because I did not mention any other energy wasting hate speech does not mean I am not aware.
I still expect better from you.
I do agree, however I would argue that an increased user base would help accelerate progress on improving lemmy
To be honest, people who are tech savvy and bug tolerant enough to be on Lemmy are probably already here. There were quite a few discussions about it (and still now on Reddit)
I predict it will be the mobile apps that get us over that hump
Which is unfortunate imo. More mobile users means less effort and lower quality content
Definitely. Sync and Boost will bring the largest users influx
Infinity too.
Indeed
45k users in a week with sync.
That’s impressive
Mirror for that lemmy.world post since they’re currently down…
Thanks!
The fact that large instances hit more downtime than something like reddit will always be a detriment.
lemmy.world really needs to close signups and the creation of new communities, until they can improve their uptime
or they should at least be removed from https://join-lemmy.org/instances maybe it could track the uptime and use that to build the list?
but Reddit actually does go down pretty often too
They said themselves the issue isn’t signups or server capacity, it’s that they’ve been under multiple rounds of DDoS attacks.
Why are they being DDoS’d though? I thought it was because they’re the biggest instance and thus shutting down still helps
Well, by that logic, if they shut down, the the next largest will be targeted, and then the next largest, etc. That’s not a winning game for anyone involved…
Right but we’ll be more decentralized so any such attack won’t affect the threadiverse as much. Right now every time .world goes down the entire fediverse feels half dead because it’s so large.
But if this happens 7 times and there’s now 7 major instances, each will only take up like 10% of the total and attacking it won’t affect much.
In that sense, getting more decentralized is basically a natural evolution of the big instances being attacked. I’m just trying to speed it up.
Yeah but why give new users a bad experience, you’re just gonna drive them away from Lemmy and they never come back
Also we’re overly centralized on them, we need to decentralize better, both users and communities
I mean, that could happen to any other Lemmy instance too, unfortunately. And even if you do decentralize, a server going down still deprives the rest of us of that content, so it’s never not going to cause some issues. So I wouldn’t hold this against Lemmy.world.
I don’t hold it against them, it’s just unfortunate that they’ve been having so much downtime recently, certainly more than most other good instances
Yeah, people say we should use small instances to keep things spread out but two of the ones I tried have major posting issues that stop comments working, We really need to stress test and big squish before we really push it to everyone, some of the issues I’ve seen have been fixed and on general it’s very stable so I don’t think it’s got far to go
Which were those, out of curiosity?
Discuss.online and slrpnk both good communities but issues with syncing
Thanks!
Have had absolutely zero issues on slrpnk even after the big Reddit migrations.
Reddit’s decline is greatly exaggerated.
No. Most large Reddit communities are toxic, both on the user and mod end. Let Lemmy grow at its own pace without repeating the same mistakes Reddit made.
This is the best take. I’d rather organic growth, here people come here for actual content, than just shove a bunch of redditors over and repost reddit content
In some communities they’re already doing exactly that.
Right now lemmy feels more toxic to me than reddit in many ways. I’ve never been on a reddit news thread where people were openly trolling and posting pictures of pig shit in response to comments they don’t like.
Trolls and other idiots are part of humanity and its perfectly natural for lemmy to have its share. Reddit does as well. But taking one sub as a basis to say that lemmy seems more toxic than reddit sounds very far fetched.
Those get autodeleted, or are on instances that are explicitly been defederated across most instances outside of lemmy.ml
Agree with Blaze, they probably remember too when Reddit was in its infancy, it was unappealing to your average netizen, the same as Lemmy is now
Remember that 90% of Reddit is now ex-Tumblr and Facebook people; they would come to lemmy, see it’s a bit clunky, and go tell a hundred others on Reddit how bad an experience it was for them
Next thing lemmy has a reputation like Tesla that isn’t going to shake off any time soon
From what I’ve seen on reddit, this is sort of already happening. Lemmy’s name isn’t mud yet, but it’s being spoken of like most of the alternatives over there: not good enough or flawed in some way. Lack of content and users is the main one that gets said about all of them, but beyond that, the negative things I see said about Lemmy most often are: “scatter-brained”, “unintuitive”, “tanky”, “messy”, “not respecting user privacy”, “admins defederating and shadow banning”, “having to apply to instances”, “federated content not appearing the same on each instance”, “lack of mod tools”, “need a third party site to help find communities”, etc.
And it should be said that many of the most common negative things I’ve seen said about Lemmy on Reddit are being addressed, but some are not. Privacy (public voting) and issues with admins erecting invisible walls in the federation through various means are not being seriously addressed as far as I’ve seen.
I think the main issue that will ultimately hurt Lemmy versus any other platform that comes along is that Lemmy’s selling point of defederation is only a selling point to some people. Most people on Reddit don’t care about centralization, they just want a platform like reddit. They’ll come here and put up with it if they have too, but they will scamper off for a centralized site the moment one starts gaining traction unless Lemmy finds some way to provide something equally as unified, simple, and easy to use.
Maybe a frontend or app that just shows you everything and allows you to interact easily without worrying about logins or urls for instances, and pushes the federation aspect “behind the scenes”.
in fairness, most of the whining about defederated instances is coming from the same people who turned reddit into a cesspit.
reddit was a cesspit 10 years ago, only the trash stayed after 2012
I think the main issue that will ultimately hurt Lemmy versus any other platform that comes along is that Lemmy’s selling point of defederation is only a selling point to some people.
I agree, and that’s why I think in a few weeks/months people here will realize we can only have so many active communities at the same time.
We’ll probably gather around a few core communities, and that would be it.
Lemmy is the Linux of the link aggregators, and as we all know, Linux desktop year is next year
I think some really general-purpose communities like films or books are good to be one per large instance, as they’ll be busy enough to have plenty of content without them getting so big you have that Reddit thing where it feels pointless trying to contribute unless you’re early.
Smaller, more niche communities definitely are harmed by being spread out as they get too quiet to survive.
Maybe a frontend or app that just shows you everything and allows you to interact easily without worrying about logins or urls for instances, and pushes the federation aspect “behind the scenes”.
Let’s say I’m browsing Lemmy.world through this frontend and I stumbled upon !privacy@lemmy.ml. Would the following be clear?
It’s unfortunate people want centralization and seem openly hostile when discussions are had about ways to encourage decentralization. When reddit goes down, you can’t use reddit. When a lemmy instance goes down, you can simply go on other lemmy instances. That’s a major issue with lemmy.world right now and it being seen as the “default” instance
I would argue we should wait until the software we’re on does not feel like an alpha release. This is not some window of opportunity that will close soon, we have no strong incentive to rush this process.
I did this with /r/Cardano mods back before Reddit was blocking all mention of the fediverse even in PM’s. I managed to get one of them to help mod my Cardano communities. I’d wager that it’s exceedingly hard to get in touch with mods over there now that Huffman is blocking fediverse recruitment.
They are actually blocking links to fediverse based websites, especially lemmy. Some of the larger lemmy instances are having their links deleted and people posting them warned/banned
To your point, I know when I was last on reddit, 1 month ago, lemmy links did not work
Really?
Yep. Especially the NSFW instances.
It’s no secret that Lemmy is shaping up to be a viable alternative to Reddit.
I will tell you why this is not true.
Any platform that becomes successful enough to grow and cater to a larger audience eventually gets sold to large corpos. This is inevitable, because the owner usually doesn’t have the principles to say “no” to $100m+. This is a bad thing, why? Because you joined the platform due to its reliability and its culture. These things are no longer guaranteed to stay when the owner is replaced. So the previous owner essentially did a bait-and-switch by selling you (the user-base) to a corporation.
On one hand this leads to a more stable platform that can withstand legal trouble and has a steady inflow of money to maintain service. On the other hand, you get cencorship, woke ESG-score-friendly ideology and UX anti-patterns (like when Reddit constantly pushes their app to track you and show you ads). The ending of such a platform is hatred from most common people and aggressive monetization by the owners to compensate for a lower rate of growth. These owners, usually shareholders of publicly traded companies, do not care about maintaining quality as much as they care about generating wealth. This means that they will resort to several anti-user tactics to keep growing their wealth, like for example milking the platform dry with ads & micro-transactions.
Lemmy.world and other large instances are just like Condé Nast Reddit. Same censorship, same garbage. If you think that Lemmy is more free, then let me remind you that Reddit pre-2014 was more free than Lemmy.world. Yes, once upon a time Reddit was much more free and open than the so called “Lemmyverse”. Why I say this is because of Lemmy’s rules and policies. As an anecdote, I literally got banned from a community for saying that there are only two sexes (no foul language, nothing). For me, who was a Redditor during the pre-2014 era, this was unheard of. Lemmy is less like Old Reddit, and more like Raddle.me (Communist Old Reddit-clone). Lemmy is the LGBT/woke Old Reddit clone. It’s not as fringe as Raddle.me, but it is still fringe, and it will therefore not be able to have the same reach as Old Reddit once had. The fact that Reddit is woke now is a bait-and-switch, as I explained earlier. Reddit would have never been successful had it been woke from Day 1. I predict that Lemmy will never grow as large as Reddit because of this reason.
To mods: Leave this post be. If not, you can have your echo-chamber, and I’m fucking out of here.
Lemmy is the LGBT/woke Old Reddit clone
*checks comment history*
Children need a man as a father, not a spineless cuck.
https://lemmy.world/comment/693917
Cisgender is a slur:
https://lemmy.world/comment/726144
Where did the big bad woke touch you?
Children need a man as a father, not a spineless cuck.
It is harsh language, I will admit. But the guy needed some tough love.
Cisgender is a slur
It is a slur, since it is constantly being used in a negative context. It is how I, and others feel from experience.
Where did the big bad woke touch you?
Nowhere, thank God.
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Congratulations, you just discovered the concept of vocal minority, and the damage they can do.
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This is not the argument you think it is. It would have been fine for my grandfather to call black people with a different name in his day, but >one day it wasn’t. You can argue this made him less free, but I’d disagree.
You were being inflammatory, knowingly, and that’s why you got banned. You walked into a house and decided to shit on the floor and were then surprised you were shown the door.
I said “there are only two sexes”. I got my post removed, and got banned.
In general, you should have enough tolerance to host discussions and debates for people you disagree with. Especially when you claim to be a viable Reddit alternative. You can’t ask the wider population to join your platform when you are this extreme and on the fringe. As I said, Lemmy is in the same camp as Raddle.me, not Old Reddit.
It’s also not true there are only 2 biological sexes in humans (irregardless of the social arguments that exist in current day discourse). >Intersex exists and is recognized way before the current social aspect was relevant. There are also 6 chromosomal sexes recognised in biology.
There is a benefit to not start muddying the waters when it comes to sexes.
The benefit is the conceptualization of reality, which allows us to put things that are similar into the same box (let’s call it X). Then we can say things that are in X tend to have a, b, c, … features. We can then talk more about the objects in X in a social or academic setting, and draw logical conclusions based on their features and other premises. This helps us decide which treatments to give, how to behave, how to build homes, which products to develop, which services to give and much more.
When you refuse to acknowledge that the objects in the box can be similarly referred to, and instead enforce a system where object 1 belongs in box “A”, and 2 in “B”, and 3 in “C”, etc. you challenge people’s ability to conceptualize reality efficiently. This makes medicine harder, it makes socialization harder, and other things we do as human beings that differ based on sex much harder.
It’s simply not realistic to enforce this on wider society because
- As I mentioned earlier, it’s inefficient.
- It goes against human nature. (goes contrary to how different civilizations in different times have conceptualized reality)
- Religious reasons
I therefore believe that the whole idea of non-binary is pushed primarily as a grift by the medical industry to sell “treatments” for gender dysphoria, and as a type of fetish. It’s not something most people are interested in validating, because it’s wrong, harmful and not based on reality.
I’d argue, as a day 1 Reddit user that Reddit was way more woke than any competitor at the time. It wasn’t as woke (lol what a word) as it is today, but if you think whatever it was competing with wasn’t less woke than Reddit, I have a bridge to sell you.
It depends on the subreddit. Several subreddits that you surely would not agree with did just fine for years.
Reddit didn’t even have subreddits in the beginning, meaning that for everyone to play nice a baseline of respect had to be present.
I will repeat myself… I said “there are only two sexes”. I got my post removed, and got banned.
That’s a lot of eloquent words to describe how you have to put people into strictly defined categories, otherwise you get confused and angry.
You put things into categories all the time, we all do. Take plates for example. If someone told you that you are not allowed to call two plates with different colors “plates”, then you would likely have considered it a bit wired. Wouldn’t you?
Also, tone down the arrogance.
In general, you should have enough tolerance to host discussions and debates for people you disagree with
You weren’t looking for a discussion, you were looking to make a statement. You weren’t there to listen, just to preach. If my opinion was “slavery was good, so I don’t see why you’re complaining about it” I’d be shown the door in plenty of good communities due to the inflammatory nature of my discourse. It would also be clear I’m not there to discuss anything.
I’ve also shown you it’s not an opinion rooted in science as they do classify more sexes, so in the end it’s a social opinion you hold, and tbh that’s not worth a lot (and definitely not worthy of the discussion you crave).
I therefore believe that the whole idea of non-binary is pushed primarily as a grift by the medical industry to sell “treatments” for gender dysphoria
You know Pakistan & India also recognizes a third gender? The Hijra. I guess the medical community has a long history of this grift all the way into antiquity such as Ancient Egypt (they wrote and described their notion of a third gender) or even somewhat recently the Mughal Empire (15th century). But yes it’s totally a grift.
Your lack of knowledge isn’t mine to fix though. You’ve set your opinion to be something malicious because you want it to be, but even a quick glance at a wiki page would tell you the much longer history.
The rest of your comment veers off into randomness mentioning religion and how you talk about human nature as if you’re an expert, and I think we’ve spoken enough already. I’m not going down a long windy irrelevant discussion on the matter.
You’re free to have the last word, I will be going further with my day, my best to you.
You know Pakistan & India also recognizes a third gender? The Hijra. I guess the medical community has a long history of this grift all the way into antiquity such as Ancient Egypt (they wrote and described their notion of a third gender) or even somewhat recently the Mughal Empire (15th century). But yes it’s totally a grift.
Your lack of knowledge isn’t mine to fix though. You’ve set your opinion to be something malicious because you want it to be, but even a quick glance at a wiki page would tell you the much longer history.
I did not know about this term, so let’s take a look.
Wikipedia says: “In the Indian subcontinent, hijra is the generic term for trans women and may include eunuchs and intersex people […] Hijras are officially recognised as a third gender throughout countries in the Indian subcontinent”
It goes on to say: “Some hijras may form relationships with men and even marry,[32] although their marriage is not usually recognized by law or religion”
So the institution of marriage did not entertain the idea of “hijras”, that seems pretty significant to me! It begs the question which other norms, customs, practices and laws pertaining to sexes were not taking this idea into consideration. Again, you can make up a sex ad-hoc for specific purposes (fetishes, guarding harems, etc.) but you will not find it being truly recognized as another sex.
If we forward to today, you see the same thing. Medical doctors, architects, clothing designers, etc. all mostly operate according the concept of two sexes. Because that’s what’s practical, and that’s what’s most in line with reality.
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You’re not understanding what I’m trying to say. This ideology attacks the very idea that the conceptualization of things is bound to reality, ad-hoc, to justify fetishes, making money or other limited personal gains. Outside of these limited gains, these people must deal with reality, so they reintroduce concepts as if nothing happened. That’s why it’s ad-hoc. It’s hypocritical, anti-truth and illogical. Your example, just like other attempts to dismantle the idea of a sex binary (male and female) is fundamentally flawed. A “spork” has the function of being compact and easy to carry & distribute. Being an intersex person has no benefit, it’s a disability. It’s like being born blind or deaf. It’s unfortunate, and should not be fetishized or compared to being a transexual. It’s also highly uncommon to be intersex, so uncommon that redoing how society functions is simply too impractical. Introducing sporks has no such burden on society, and can be easily referred to in terms of a spoon and a fork, because it combines the function of both (albeit lackingly).
It doesn’t end there. They claim that there is a spectrum, not 3 sexes. So they further muddy the waters, and any attempt to categorize things can be waved away in a similar fashion to satisfy some people’s personal whims and desires. Not practical, not acceptable.
Whatever grievances we have with clothing designers or fashion, the point still stands that we will never move away from naturally putting things into boxes, especially when it comes to sex. We naturally see two sexes, and doing so turns out to be what is most in line with reality.
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Lemmy.world and other large instances are just like Condé Nast Reddit. Same censorship, same garbage. If you think that Lemmy is more free, then let me remind you that Reddit pre-2014 was more free than Lemmy.world. Yes, once upon a time Reddit was much more free and open than the so called “Lemmyverse”. Why I say this is because of Lemmy’s rules and policies. As an anecdote, I literally got banned from a community for saying that there are only two sexes (no foul language, nothing). For me, who was a Redditor during the pre-2014 era, this was unheard of. Lemmy is less like Old Reddit, and more like Raddle.me (Communist Old Reddit-clone). Lemmy is the LGBT/woke Old Reddit clone. It’s not as fringe as Raddle.me, but it is still fringe, and it will therefore not be able to have the same reach as Old Reddit once had. The fact that Reddit is woke now is a bait-and-switch, as I explained earlier. Reddit would have never been successful had it been woke from Day 1. I predict that Lemmy will never grow as large as Reddit because of this reason.
I think it’s a huge shame it went this way, and I’m still hoping small instances will be able to grow so we get a truly distributed platform. Right now the entire lemmy conversations just stops when Lemmy.world is down which is ridiculous to me. It’s like email would stop because Microsoft Outlook is down.
I feel like people who don’t agree with the centralization are in minority though. And this I see as a big risk to Lemmy.
OP has straight up mental illnesses
We aren’t going to get mods to promote us. That is just silly.
We should buy advertising though, definitely.
When the API thing happened, several of the subreddits I frequented had threads about finding an alternative to move to. Lemmy was mentioned, but but discounted early on.
One problem was that people found out the main dev was a tankie and didn’t want to be associated with the project because of that.
They ended up going to discords, or self hosted forums, or just staying on reddit.
If we’re talking about the same discussion, I think I remember a thread on either the modcoord or redditalternatives sub.
From what I remember, the disagreement was that the only communities that were shown in the splash page were extremely edgy commie stuff. Blatant propaganda communities. There was a pro-Russian invasion community in the top 5 communities and lots of “Death to America” type stuff. ’
Compounding things, the initial response to these complains was a dismissive “Redditors aren’t smart enough to work out how instances work!” which really didn’t make people want to persevere.
I’ll admit, I was in two minds because of this. But gave it a go out of curiosity for the tech.
I saw several threads and may be mixing them up, but at one point someone dug up a link to an interview with desselines where he claimed that the uyghur genecide and the tiananmen square massacre were both hoaxes. There was also some worry in one of the discussions about security and the inability to delete comments. Also something about private messages being stored in plaintext on the server.
I really don’t think Lemmy is polished and issue-free enough for tons of people to move here. It might be in the future but I feel like pushing it would do no good.
Yeah, let it grow organically. Like other open-source projects, it’s unlikely to shrink, and it’ll gain profile and draw users from Reddit etc over time–faster when Reddit drops the ball, which it’ll do more often as it scrambles to extract more profit from a shrinking user base.
There’s no reason to rush it. That’ll just cause growing pains and give Lemmy a bad reputation.
There is always a risk of collapse for lemmy. When you are in decline there can be negative feedback loops furthering the decline.
Two of my reddit using friends have never heard of lemmy until I told them about it a few days ago. Although they are quite invested in the FOSS world.
I am here because I read something about Lemmy on reddit, two or three times. More exposure on reddit would show many people that there is an alternative. It wouldn’t convince millions but maybe enough to let some niche communities grow.
That’s surprising, I saw Lemmy mentioned a lot during the 3rd party apps debacle.
There is even a sub called LemmyMigration
