- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
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i joined .ml as it was the first instance i come across when trying lemmy out. Iv heard the admins are tankies but to be honest i dont actually know what a tankie is. i just use lemmy to look at memes and follow foss communities. i try to block all political stuff as i want to enjoy my exprience and stay ignorant to the politics here.
Humans really can’t keep their hands out of the tribalism cookie jar.
Even though I came from reddit, I approach comments on their own merits and I don’t downvote just for disagreeing with someone.
We are not the same.
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
Plenty of us tried that. We weren’t the ones that turned it into a political Battlefield. I didn’t start out blocking their communities and servers. I’m a pragmatist. Actually largely against people who are blindly ideological regardless of the ideology. Even if I tend to personally identify with the anarchist Spectrum.
Hell lemmygrad and hexbear weren’t banned because of their politics. They were banned because of their behavior. Anyone who behaved like so many of them did should have been banned regardless of politics. Lemmy.world was de-federated by certain servers for far far less.
And if you want to exist in a bubble. Then by all means please do. But don’t admonish other people for not doing so. Ignoring politics and being ignorant of politics is in large part how so many of the problems we have today were created. People left alone at the levers of power who should never have had any business. All because people were content and ignorant.
So if there was a instance called “obviously a bunch of Nazis” and we’re all openly Nazis. You would be fine with that? Or am I missing the point?
I made the mistake of not knowing I was on an .ml community and disagreed with a post using, y’know, facts, and was downvoted to shit because my reply didn’t jive with the room’s echo chamber. I don’t know what you mean by “leave(ing) them alone” when their brand of hate and bullshittery bleeds into the “All” feed. We’re supposed to welcome that? Paradox of tolerance and all that. If someone joins one of those instances I kinda find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t check out and stick with what they’re attracted to in the first place.
I have no problems with tankies expressing there opinions. The problem is when someone points out they are wrong they get mad and if the mods are tankie they ban you. If not they just get mad and start name calling.
In a nutshell I think they should be allowed as long as they follow the rules. Same for everyone else.
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
This is what the tankies do, would you rather have them just run roughshod all over Lemmy spreading hostile country authoritarian propaganda?
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred
Not about changing Tankie opinions, they’re too far gone, this is about pushing back on the spread of authoritarian BS.
and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
“Don’t tell the new comers to town about the Nazis at the Nazi bar, let them figure it out for themselves so they have a negative experience and leave”
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here
If they’re (admins and mods) going to allow a toxic culture on their instance, then it doesn’t matter their size. Toxic Tankies is not a good look at all.
and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
The worst possible greeting, is seeing Tankie shit takes with paragraphs of “Russia/China did nothing wrong” and everyone going “We let them post their stuff because we don’t want to hurt their fefes”
My instance has communities dedicated to this shit.
Some of your more vocal voices in this crusade against .ml tend to be pretty active in drone kill footage communities.
Having someone who actively supports Israeli operations in Gaza browbeat others about comments on Uyghurs is just a context to get used to.
It gets pretty easy to ignore once you see a full cycle of it.
The zionists here, too? I used reddit for over a decade and left because of how awful zionists barrage reddit into a propogandist cesspit. And yes screw anyone who makes lemmy a battleground like reddit
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
Hexbear has some users with strong Linux and tech knowledge. That’s why I still haven’t blocked the instance.
IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. .ml is mostly OK 75% of the times. Hexbear is a cesspool always
The only bans I saw on your account were for being needlessly hostile- and they look like they all were extremely short.
Re: the homophobic comments, in your posts that got removed you were hostile for what looks to me like your misinterpreting a bad attempt at a bad joke (not even from .ml user, but .ee), though you didn’t tell them to kys that time at least. You then went through the their profile responding to months old posts to try to continue things, again being needlessly hostile- if I had to venture a guess that was more of the reason for your ban 5 months ago. Plenty of other instances will also temp ban for behavior like that.
and then 8 months ago you dropped this gem: CW self harm, transphobia
spoiler
The accusations of toxicity seem to be projection.
Every fucking time.
CW self harm, transphobia
Bullshit.
Why don’t you show the context?The user bullied me for being gay. He’s the one who went into my history and saw I was a gay dad. He reply to my comment about the fact that I love my daughter with the reply “You’re gay”. Then mods like you told me it was a "bad joke’ remove my post and let the douche’s post up.
Now I’d like to see where I’ve been transphobe, , I have a trans person really close to me that would probably like to see that but it never happened.
part 2:
CW self harm, transphobiaBullshit. Why don’t you show the context?
Oh here’s the context for the transphobic comment too:
images:
spoiler
It was in this post about donald trump posting an image of Joe Biden tied up
You opened up with this, which is pretty clearly trolling.
Marcie responded with a similarly pointed comment that also got removed for being uncivil.
thread view:
Then you dropped your transphobic/kys comment in response to someone saying that Trump could get shot for treason but the democrats will never follow through. This is expressing frustration with liberals who talk a big game but when the chips are down take no action. Not sure what you were trying to accomplish other than being needlessly hostile.
Worth noting all of this is in the public modlog, anyone can look it up
This is just “removed by mod” . I’m not transphobic no matter how hard you want it to be real. Oh, and I actually went to see Chapo in Montreal a couple years back, before I understood who these people are. They kept making joke about how french Canadians are stupid and inferior, to an audience of 90% unilingual white males. Absolutely pathetic, it’s probably on youtube.
You asked for the context, click on the spoiler tag if you want to see the removed comment, here’s another link
I really don’t see how taking a shot at hexbear as being ‘95% guys’ is relevant, or anything other than being intentionally transphobic, but I look forward to your explanation.
Also I don’t care about shittalking chapo lol, pretty much every time I’ve listened to them (extremely infrequent occurrence) I’ve been annoyed by something.
OMG what? It’s the sentence about hexbear being a bunch of dude that’s suppose to be transphobic? I must be stupid because I failed to see how trans people are involved in this. I stand by what I’ve said, Hexbear is filled by a bunch privilege white guys that pretends to represent minorities they know nothing about. It’s where all the chapo community migrated after being banned on reddit, so basically some bros of the socalled dirtbag left and tankies.
4chan level bigotry, shocking.
I agree that ‘ironic’ homophobia is still homophobia, and should be removed, just like ‘ironic’ misogyny and transphobia.
spoiler
his comment wasn’t ‘You’re gay’, but it was close
A meme this could be seen as referencing is this
you responded with this:
Going into past threads to respond about an unrelated grievance would get you a temp ban in a lot of lemmies, regardless how valid.
Here’s the transphobic part of the post of yours - the same one in the post above
spoiler
Hexbear has done many surveys at this point of the gender of its users (most recent one linked here) As of this last one cis people are in the minority, I don’t know why you would insert a comment like that if you weren’t trying to be transphobic.
Lol. The joke about shooting “a superiority complex” (3 feet above your head) is encouraging self-harm? This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium. I haven’t met a single person from France that doesn’t find really it funny, and I’ve met more then you ever will. Maybe it doesn’t translate well, but it’s definitely a joke, no ambiguity here. On the other hand a loser calling me “Gay” for loving my daughter it’s clearly humor?? Fuck off lol. I’ve been bullied all my life, I’ve learned to stand up against this kind of “joke”. Maybe I’ve overacted but I will always show my teeth when it involves my daughter and homophobia.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
BTW, you’re just confirming me that you .ml people are powertripping hardcore. I use to defend the instance but I will now gladly join the bashing. You people suck.
This the probably the most told joke about French people ever, it was invented by Belgium.
I’m not familiar with it, and I doubt many other people reading it got that either. It’s a little ironic that you’re this bent out of shape when other people don’t get your joke but at the same time can’t give other people the same deference.
I still think removing the homophobic comment -ironic or otherwise- was the right move, however you going into months-old threads to harass them about your current beef was also something begging for moderation.
I still haven’t seen my so-called transphobic comment, why don’t you just quote it?
I have, twice now, are you being intentionally obtuse? click on the spoiler tag if you want to see.
I’ve been a victim of stuff like that. It is straight up not cool and a asshole move.
You are welcome to disagree with me and you can even hate me but at the end of the day harassment is not ok.
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
The admins of ml are tankies and so are a lot of the communities there. The non tankie users are moving away from that instance which increases the tankie concentration.
I think what you are meaning to say is that many tankies can behave like normal people. To take your comment farther, tankies can be anywhere but you will most likely see them coming from I stances like ml and hexbear or fresh accounts on other instances.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let’s hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
When choosing an instance, it is not necessarily overtly advertised as such. It’s just one of the largest instances, so many “regular” people are obviously going to pick it. New users are not going to be intimately familiar with the elaborate politics of federated Lemmy servers upon first arrival. It would be a bit bizarre to expect them to be.
That’s why I am working to stopped supporting lemmyml. I have created a few new communities already. I don’t want to mod to much so it would be nice if some other people followed suite.
Yeah it seems a lot of the bigger communities from Lemmy.ml have seen alternatives grow in popularity on different instances now.
Makes sense given the current Lemmyml admins
Sure, and anyone can walk into a nazi bar. But with threads like this being fairly common, and ML people behaving as they do, you have every chance to realise pretty quickly and leave
Hell, ML people are bad enough that I imagine a lot of sane people leave lemmy entirely, if they pick an instance that hasn’t defederated ML yet. I’m looking at alternatives myself as getting associated with these types of people isn’t a great idea, and the lemmy developers are part of the problem
No doubt many have tried the fediverse and walked away because of Lemmy.ml/hexbear.
I don’t even admit that I use it as is because of the propaganda. I’m still hopeful for the future but my enthusiasm is dying.
Same, I can’t recommend lemmy to friends or coworkers because of this. Mastodon is much better at this
I mean I just never ended up subscribing to political communities, so I never see any political related things anyway. If you only subscribe to meme and lighthearted communities, you’re not likely to run into that stuff. Your comparison of it being a “Nazi bar” doesn’t work. I’ve never been someone who browsed the “all” category of Reddit, and I’ve not been inclined to do that here on Lemmy, either. So no, you often won’t see that sort of thing unless you’re browsing by all communities.
Well, you’d need to pay a very specific amount of attention to not notice the tankies from ML, but really notice and be bothered but people shunning ML because of the tankies. I guess it’s possible, but it seems unlikely to be common
Well now you’re not making any sense. I don’t see “tankie” comments because I don’t subscribe to or browse political communities. Yet I see plenty of posts and complaints about said users in non-political communities. Check where we are right now. We’re in a meme community. Of course if I subscribe to meme communities, I’ll see posts and comments like this. It’s not that complicated to understand.
I see plenty of ML people being awful in meme communities. I’m amazed you don’t. Any even remotely political meme will attract them, or at least would back when they were out in force supporting Trump leading up to the election.
And that is even though I’ve blocked ML and have a hair trigger for blocking .ml accounts
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check Davel@lemmy.ml if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
Haven’t i seen you cast these types of accusations before…?
Pure AD HOM. Instead of addressing a single part of my argument, you’re instantly pointing a finger at my person, but you’re so easy that I don’t mind engaging.
“Accusations” like quoting his own comments?
He claims to be American. He says “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias.” He won’t answer the question “are you pro-Russian”.
Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts you can verify yourself.
Fervently and actively trying to say Russian propaganda doesn’t exist, definitely not on Lemmy, while refusing to answer whether he’s pro-Russian or not. Just what kind of American would you have to be to support Russia and be against Ukraine while actively promoting Russian propaganda? Please, do reason that out for me. Thanks.
I’m not debating you bud, relax.
Pretty much my entire experience with your account is dealing with you accusing me of being a russian operative, even linking me into threads across instances in threads I had no involvement in.
I’m just pointing out the pattern here, though I’m grateful you’ve moved on to another target now.
edit because @Desus@lemmy.world got himself banned on my instance:
I’ve repeatedly stated that I’m not russian nor pro-russian - but that’s the point. There is no way of addressing this accusation thoroughly enough to satisfy the accuser, which is why nearly every community/instance has a rule against it. Nevermind the hopelessness of trying to categorize/typify every anonymous user along some nationalist line of personal significance.
Confusing analysis for justification is a common enough mistake, but it’s an even more common bad-faith way of dismissing materialist analysis entirely. Following various users around to make those accusations is simply a way to force disengagement onto others and potentially solidify reactionary impulses against communism/socialism more broadly.
@Dasus@lemmy.world
I literally cannot see anything you’ve posted after you were banned - an instance ban prevents any of your activity from federating. It isn’t that I ‘stop responding’, that possibility has simply been taken away from me because Dasus can’t resist russia-jacketing anyone who disagrees with them. I can only see your comments if I visit the post from any other instance url. Call it unhealthy curiosity, I figured you’d be shadowboxing in my absence.
I do not support Russia and Putin is a piece of shit - feel free to send a screenshot to the kremlin if it makes you feel better. The US isn’t getting involved out of benevolence, though, and Ukraine would be fucked by IMF and US aid conditions for the next century even if they were successful in repelling the russian invasion. But my material analysis about that conflict isn’t even at issue here, instead it’s your insistence that any analysis that involves Russia at all be sufficiently critical, else the speaker be condemned as a pro-russian stooge. It doesn’t mean I think that russian capitalism is preferable, it’s just an acknowledgement that it’s western capitalism that has historically -and is currently- obstructing the development of working-class solidarity across the globe, and exchanging Ukrainian (and russian) lives for its expansion is a shit deal to put it mildly.
No war but class war.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets
I don’t view one type of capitalism as more favorable than another, but I do recognize the particular dominance and imperialistic qualities of western capitalism. In fact, I see the the current global conflicts in a similar lens to Zizek when he says:
[the existing western democratic capitalist] “system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility, and I even think it’s currently collapsing. I don’t share Zizek’s skepticism of… “Chinese-Singaporean capitalism with Asian values”. He has had some questionable takes on racial/national identities in the past - it’s been a while since I trusted his geopolitical cultural analysis. At the very least I think the ‘Socialism/Capitalism with Chinese characteristics’ has yet to play itself out, whereas there’s about a dozen examples of western imperialist intervention ending in absolute squalor for the working class wherever they’ve been active.
The point is that from a purely ML perspective, there’s nothing to be gained by dragging that conflict out. The working class will be in no better material conditions under either outcome, even if we freely acknowledge their occupation and annexation is both immoral and illegal. So long as western democratic capitalism retains its global significance, there can’t be socialism without a vanguard party to defend against western capitalistic subversion, at least not one that lasts.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine.
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing
I’m sorry you’re in that situation, genuinely. I don’t want to be one of those guys that confidently speculates about the future of geopolitical conflict, but Russia benefits a lot more from reactionary isolationists getting voted in throughout the western world and weakening resolve for joint sanction than they do with open conflict with Europe. They wouldn’t be able to march into Finland or Poland without NATO taking action, and they certainly do not want to get into open conflict with NATO - that’s half the reason they’re in Ukraine to begin with.
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
And i’d gladly discuss it when I know i’m talking to someone who understands that it isn’t just western ‘politics’, it is a matter of the internal contradictions within democratic capitalism itself. It’s not a matter of western nations ‘deciding’ not to be jackasses, they need to materially separate themselves from the needs of capital itself, and we’ll sooner sink to fascism than achieve that spontaneously.
Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
Err, yea… That is basically the only reason they’ve been as successful as a communist nation to begin with. I understand people’s apprehension to include China as a communist or socialist nation state given the idealistic non-violent vision that’s romanticized in the west, but the way in which they’ve enacted their “socialism with Chinese characteristics” is still consistent with a marxist vision of a ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’. I guess we’ll see if/how that system would be implemented in a hypothetical communist/socialist western world, but so far their system has been significantly less violent than even the most charitable characterizations of western democratic capitalism. That’s why I don’t share Zizek’s fear of Chinese authoritarianism taking over in the west - not just because I think the west has greatly exaggerated it to great effect, but also they’ve been downright benevolent with their partner states in comparison to western democratic capitalist states. I think it’s naive to think a western implementation would be the same (but holy shit is that an insane hypothetical given where we currently are)
And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
Funnily enough, that is the opposite of what that phrase means - but I can see we’re about to reach the limit on what we agree on so I’ll leave it at that.
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Based 👌❤️
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
Doesn’t mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It’s not arbitrary, it’s a picked identity which shares some common features.
It’s not that we’re judging all .ml users. It’s just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you’re allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don’t actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it’s pretty often that you’ll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy “western imperialists”.
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you’re from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me. Back in 2021 there wasn’t many Lemmy servers for register.
You can scroll through my 1.400 comments and don’t find a tankie-like comment.
Btw. Lemmy.ml is the dev server, every new update and feature starts here.
That’s a bit harsh if you ask me.
My thoughts exactly for getting banned for making a simple joke.
I used to have a Lemmy account many years ago. I may of thought Lemmy was making fun of communism at the time and I made a meme that got me banned.
A few years later here I am.
I don’t care about all the politics and shit regarding instances, i just want to use lemmy :(
woah.
woah?
It’s short for “woke tuah [girl]”
yeah I was echoing the meme. silly joke
woah
You are on the wrong instance for that
They’re on the normal regular instance. Political content is mostly propagated through lemmy.world anyway.
Almost entirely .world starting shit and then complaining when they hear something back.
If you block .world you literally lose 90% of politics and political news from the feeds.
I like how this comment would work regardless of the instance they’re on
Facts
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It’s UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They’re fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren’t pro-genocide.
Ask them about the Uyghur genocide or the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians or the Holodomor or the deportation of the Crimean Tatars or etc etc etc etc
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
A while back they were calling for the total destruction of France
Drag has seen many .mls say “Democrats are Republicans are exactly the same.”
The difference between Harris 2024 vs Trump 2024 is one genocide vs three. That’s millions of lives.
Drag has seen many .mls deny the loss of millions of Palestinian, Ukrainian, and transgender lives to push their agenda.
Genocide denial is wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
Non-tankies on .ML getting upset at this:
You might not be an idiot, but you’re wearing a T-shirt that says “I AM AN IDIOT” in bold letters across your chest. Maybe change your shirt. 🤷🏻♂️
to better analogize this, you’re hanging around a nazi rally trying to find friends, and people keep calling you a nazi for some reason.
Weird.
As a Lemmy user I don’t care for this
I feel like Lemmy has the reputation of being Tankie
It’s a metaphor since tankies don’t seem to exist or make a difference in real life
There are a few tankies on other instances. The difference is that they get in trouble when they act out.
i’ve created this alt in the interim of finding a more permanent instance residence. Just got exhausted by the massive amount of shit they peddled over there.
Lemmy.sdf.org is a good one with a “very light touch” attitude towards defederating instances of what you’re interested in
Sh.itjust.works is also a good one with great admins I’ve heard (and also funny name)
I hear a lot a spam comes from shi.itjust.works
I’ve seen people say this, but haven’t actually seen it outside of one asshat who picked a fight with Beehaw a year+ ago.
As a user I’ve had a pretty great experience personally.
I’ve just heard from other mods that it can be a source of problems
Could be the case of a vocal minority. The biggest complaints I have scene is that the instance admins allow whatever
Come to .nz! Our admin has the best track record on trans rights out of any instance drag is aware of.
TODO: pedal vs peddle.
I bet there’s not a gratuitous amount of bicycling going on over in .ml land, but I could be mistaken.
fixed from ‘pedalled’ to ‘peddled’. I’ve met a decent number of Marxist cyclists, so i could believe it.
Could be, I’m no expert on cycling.
dbzer0 is chill if you like the more corner posting type shit, as well as some piracy related shit.
Oh no
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that “critical thinking” you’re talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you’ll be banned.
That’s the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest?
Of course we should! Every instance of socialism should adapt to the specific material conditions. There’s not much reason to think that socialism in developed countries would look the same as socialism is pre-industrial societies.
It’s just that in order to know what worked and what didn’t, it’s necessary to treat those projects as serious, earnest attempts at socialism and to be willing to point out both the positive and negative aspects. And doing that will immediately get you branded as a tankie by .world. Because in practice, tankie doesn’t actually mean that you defend everything any socialist state ever did, it means that you defend anything a socialist state ever did. Thinking critically and trying to learn from the mistakes from the past makes you a tankie.
Dronies have a pathological need to distance themselves from every attempt at socialism (except the ones that failed, which can be upheld as perfect since they never had to implement their vision), which renders them unable to look at the past from an objective standpoint. They are more concerned with making sure everyone knows that they’re “one of the good ones” than they are about studying and learning from the past. Tankies, otoh, are willing to own up to the facts and acknowledge that past projects were genuine attempts, even when they ultimately failed as the USSR did. Of course it would not have failed if it didn’t have its flaws. But you will rarely see a dronie pushing this angle or interrogating the reasons for the failure, because learning from its mistakes is too close to treating it as as serious and legitimate project - far better (and easier!) to just write off the whole thing and push for shit that has only ever existed in your head and has never been tainted by contact with reality.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There’s room for a lot of interesting study here, i’m not sure any exists, and i’ve yet to see any unfortunately, it’s mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
It’s not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve “the revolution.”
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn’t get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It’s 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we’re lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia’s communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don’t have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn’t have issues with school there until after he’d been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some… Cultural differences with his teachers.
“People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent”
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Also encourages an us and them mindset. Which grows both the us and them sides as people are drawn into it being previously indifferent or unaware.
Call out the individuals or behavior not their entire community or demographic.
You’re absolutely right. I just signed up on .ml because I was a reddit refugee and it was one of the largest instances, and it got the fastest updates. Like a year later, suddenly everyone’s talking about me like I’m part of some crazy cult. I bet well over half of .ml users don’t even come close to the extreme stereotype, but are considering going to another instance just so we don’t get bullied any more. It’s likely going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That’s why I think they’re astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
The communism is a facade for their propaganda, and it also bolsters extremist discourse. Win-win for them.
I’m not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That’s what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let’s do that.
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
if your community becomes more toxic when people leave it because other communities call it toxic…maybe its actually toxic.
IMO if I was running an instance it would have already defederated from ml instances.
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Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
Nothing about a dictatorship is public ownership.
*ism is just a tool for any aspiring autocrat. Stalin would have been far-right if he saw it as being a valid pathway towards power.
Effective tyrants are forever pragmatic and never burdened by ideological loyalty.
Yes that’s why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
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Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
The CCP nad Putin cucks aren’t even leftists, like at all. ML and Hexbear supported Donald Trump because he is anti-NATO.
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that’s how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
I hate when leftists punch down on other leftists. It’s not a competition!
