It is very likely a case of the area I specifically live in, but I’ve just about had it after waking up to a message earlier today that I’m letting live rent-free in my head.
I admittedly go off on tangents and sometimes write a fuck ton if there is a means to do so (e.g., a Discord server). Most people I interact with on non-political levels, such as childhood friends I’ve maintained, do one of two things: they read it and respond, or they don’t and let it fly. I’ve made peace with that, to the extent I even made a separate channel on our shared Discord server just for me to rant on shit that’s not appropriate to other channels, and everyone is cool with that. I have no problem making friends everywhere I go and maintaining them.
But every (and I shit you not every) political circle I get involved in locally does not entertain this. It almost seems like it irks them if I try to start up a discussion or get involved in one. Due to the nature of our getting together, it’s political. Duh. Political discussions can run long, in time and content. It’s actually kind of wild to me how a political circle verbally and rudely refuses to read more than a paragraph if they have total freedom to ignore it, or even just refuses to engage any of it at all most of the time past aphorisms or thought-terminating clichés. What is the point of having a group if you aren’t going to discuss and build community in the off-hours?
I think that is my point, and I’ve seen all (and I kid you not all) of the local groups fail prior because of this inability to build a community at core. It can individually be a fault of platform (not everyone uses one but joined it thinking they might start), time, stress/mental health, introversion, etc., and all of those are understandable, but seeing it happen on repeat seems to me to be more a symptom of something local. I’m the only person keeping some of these groups alive, until I’m not such as when I feel there’s nothing left of beneficence to myself. COVID seemingly worsened it, reducing the lifespan on these groups from months to weeks and the frequency of their creation from several a year to one or less annually.
Trust me, I’ve self-reflected on this. I saw therapists nearly my entire childhood due to Tourette syndrome, and so visiting them in adulthood was simple and something I’ve done often. It helped me come to terms with many quirks about who I am versus how others are, and I found ways to deal with it. What I cannot do is come to terms with how disappointed I am that people will talk about how politically left they are, then just share memes and talk in short sentence fragments about intense subjects when they do talk at all. There’s a one-off person here and there that breaks the mold, and they all go on with their life because they’re great people…which means moving away lol.
Does anyone else have this problem? How do you solve it in person, if at all? I do have plans to leave the area in the next 1-3 years due to a variety of factors not related to this, but I really hate the idea of limiting my in-depth political interactions to online in the meantime.
EDIT: Let me elaborate as well that I have sought feedback from loved ones alongside self-reflection and therapy in the past. Folks who could be intimately involved in the situation or at least aware of who I am on an interpersonal level. The conclusion arrived at tends to be of finger-pointing at others. That’s well and all, but it doesn’t provide me an opportunity to change anything in myself that may be a blocker nor does it help for community building. I view every failure to interact positively as a failure on my own part.
Are you in the USA? It seems people are conditioned to have a very shallow understanding of how the world works. There is a lot of deprogramming that is needed. Most people (even many self described ‘leftists’/socialists/etc) have a VERY limited scope of political knowledge.
Yes, US. I have in my bio “in Appalachia” deliberately to be vague and highlight my cultural backdrop, but specifically I am in West Virginia. The fact that there are enough leftists here to form some groups alone is a miracle, but thankfully some people remember, spread, and cherish our history from a century ago during the Coal Wars.
That being said, you’ve hit the hammer directly on the head I think. I’ve aligned myself with socialism for about a decade now. I’m not the oldest person in said group, but something tells me I may be the most involved in reading and the one with the most experience. I don’t try to be obnoxious, but there’s a good chance my position is substantially further off from these folks now as compared to those aforementioned mold-breakers. I don’t hold myself as better, but I’m probably assuming a lot of understanding exists that just…doesn’t unfortunately.
Do you have any advice on how I manage that or at least my own expectations? I don’t care to explain stuff and recommend sources to people, but they just don’t even seem interested in it.
I’m trying to figure that out myself to be honest. I am wanting to get involved more in my local PSL chapter. The people I’ve met from there are very well informed.
I struggle sometimes with personal relationships. I know most people are propagandizes and trained to be anti-intellectual, but it’s very difficult to carry on conversations with people who are so ignorant. The sad thing is, I try very hard to not be ‘political’ in non-political settings. Yet, people insist on bringing up things that they don’t know much about. Very frustrating. I plan to make a separate post about this soon.
I hope things get better for you. I understand and relate. It’s not fun.
Hey comrade you’re my state neighbor! (I’m from Virginia) I’ve also had issues talking in political settings. Mainly this group that one of my friends made. It’s online but has a dozen or so people from where I live. Most of the people are completely politically ignorant but some are soc dems. I try linking to videos I think would help open their eyes a little bit (second thought mostly), and sometimes I do try writing paragraphs and having discussions but usually it’s shut down by people just saying I’m wrong. With no real reason. And I feel like it’s a certain type of person that thinks they know the most in the room. I think to have a constructive or personal talk about politics you really have to find a person that you can trust/ has a certain type of personality.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’m guessing it comes with naivety to the movement or the culture spread on Twitter and Reddit. I’m starting to think I’m not going to get what I’m looking for here and will just have to settle for making a discussion group with a specific purpose and see who bites.
That sounds like a good idea, good luck friend
I am not sure your situation, but have you tried talking politics with people in person? I find it is a lot more tranquil and mutual than off line.
Imma also be brutally honest, but it’s only cuz I want you to have the discussion you want to have. People don’t really respond well to rants and long essay type things, at least not without a lil interpersonal understanding. Listening to peoples views ( no matter how reactionary ) can do a lot for them to actually hear yours in return.
Asking questions is also good to see if they’ve even really thought about their opinions, but also shows ur engagement.
I respect the hustle and the passion and def try and publish ur writing of you can!
Yes, I do talk in person. In this particular case, the group is newer and based off combining the offshoots of a few other broken groups in hopes of at least having a mutual networking space. There are works in progress to make more in person events, but they are still being felt out. That being said, socialists are still few and far between here, and those I have established good connections with have moved for new opportunities. The pandemic absolutely killed things for a while too.
I appreciate the honesty, and I do recognize that. I actually seek to listen to other people equally or more than I talk myself in person (unless prodded) for that very purpose, and I tend to have a lot of luck with it with non-socialists. I would rather coexist in a space where everyone felt they could similarly post about their views though, in length, depth, or both. The problem is that they’re not bringing that to the table and I’m at a loss, because I see it easily exists in other spaces online, implying it exists elsewhere in person. I don’t restrict myself past maybe only a lengthy post every few days, but I do this because I am of the opinion it encourages others to feel comfortable doing the same.
Asking questions is a fantastic start and usually how I go about conversations in person, but there are no seeds for this in this current group. Nobody talks.
I appreciate your contribution and feedback as well. I don’t think I’ve written anything worthy of publication, although I’ve toyed with a blog to develop myself a little further. My biggest problem is I feel I am nothing without a community I can develop myself within, and that’s what I was hoping for with these groups.
If you have any native organizations nearby, I highly suggest joining them
Native as in local to the area? There are none longstanding. Everything is new and tends to have a low shelf life, outside of a few lib organizers but even they go through orgs rather quickly too depending on the issue of the day. I know it sounds like I’m being dramatic, but this state is a whole different beast from what I understand things are like in larger and less rural areas.
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Ah, I wasn’t sure. My mistake. I’m ignorant on any of those locally but I’ve not heard of any.
Are people interested in being educated where you are or how do you approach it?
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I hear the frustration in your writing. I feel for you. At some level, I believe I have had some similar experiences in my life, but of course I cannot be sure of that.
Without enough information about exactly how things are going down in your interactions, I want to try to give you some generic coaching that might help.
Most people, like you, are looking for connectedness. They want to connect with people. I think you can relate to that. Long solo verbal expressions are not conducive to connecting. If I write something that’s not directed at you, and it’s long, and it’s passionate, and it’s just sent into a public square (like a discord), or it’s directed at the person standing in front of me but doesn’t incorporate them into the talking points, there’s no connections there.
Empathy for people desiring to connect help a lot.
But also, it helps to acknowledge that there are different verbal expression categories and they are appropriate for different things.
For example, you seem to find great value in writing passionately about deep topics and examining their details thoroughly. This sort of thing is best suited for writing essays, articles, OpEds, educational material, propaganda, lectures, presentations, lunch and learns, etc. It’s not great for interpersonal connection.
So your frustration might come from using the wrong tool for the job. Maybe you want to connect with people - in that case, your writing goals need to be totally different. Maybe you want to deeply explore a topic in writing - in this case, doing it as an unrequested bid for engagement is the wrong vehicle.
You mention looking for usable feedback from people around you. Maybe they don’t fully grasp the nature of your problem. My recommendation we be not to merely look for how to change but rather how to grow. Add more modalities to your repertoire. Add richness to how you write, write different types of things for different goals, adopt more goals instead of settling for less.
I hope this helps.
Good luck.
Thank you for the thoughtful response.
I suppose I’ve just been using Discord differently than most. I’ve traditionally been involved in more serious servers and prior social media usage focused on this kind of discussion. I had no issue finding takers and I’ve been wondering why it feels different now.
When there is a lack of seeding for discussion created by others, I do feel a need to rush in and plant those seeds myself. Sometimes I seek opinion from others on something. In a rare occasion, if a space seems to suit it, I may provide updates on something. All of this doesn’t seem compatible with this space, and I might just be blaming the leftists in the space because of prior expectations. Is this fair? Maybe not. I can make judgements all I want, but it doesn’t change the space.
I still want to find an outlet however, and as I said in another comment, that might just be creating a discussion group with a more specific purpose. I hate doing that typically, because I hate splintering where we could just divide within a prior circle, but I’m getting the idea that won’t be possible here.
Thank you for the chance to reflect a little more.
A good rule I have - don’t debate people hoping to change their minds. Debate them hoping to learn something yourself.
If you feel like you’re not going to learn anything from it, it’s already a waste of time.
Nobody has time to read that much text. Just say single most important point, and people can ask questions if you are interested in more detail.
For very long or detailed discussions, try to figure out who would be interested, and propose a separate channel or a meeting for that. Don’t bother people with your ideas who are not interested in them.
It can take years of involvement in an organisation, to build up people’s respect before they’ll listen to you seriously.
