Republican men seem massively troubled about their masculinity — and that’s literally causing death and suffering
Can we stop posting idiotic Salon.com articles Jesus fucking Christ liberal circle jerking at its finest. The same people that salivate over this nonsense will unironically state that faux news is white supremacists fascist racist literally Hitler propaganda (it’s just right wing propaganda chuds).
In my humble opinion all these fellas just seem to be running around like a beheaded chicken in search for the slightest amount self worth. Instead they started yearning for surrogates like wealth, power, status and what not.
The problem with these surrogates is that you cannot ever get enough of it. It’ll never fill the gaping hole which is their sense of self.
One thing I’ve learned is that if you have to announce something about yourself, and announce it loudly and repeatedly, it’s very much not true.
And the projections. The constant insults are ones they practice in the mirror because that’s the person it applies to the most
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I said it before too but:
Gotta take the statement in context of the thread. I am sure there are a lot of people in environments that they have to continuously assert themselves just to be heard let alone recognized. The cis white men who typically embody this toxic masculinity are not in an oppressive environment, they are creating the oppressive environment.
A guy who used to cut my hair was rumored to be a hitman for the mafia. Nice guy. Really mild mannered. Last person who you would ever suspect of killing people.
I actually believe the rumor because an actual hitman will make sure that he’s the last person that you would ever suspect.
I’m not sure about that. You may just be in an oppressive environment, like with trans people and their pronouns.
Hypermasculinity’s “oppressors” include flowers, rainbows, other people choosing to wear dresses, a functioning government, and welfare.
Trans folks oppressors are the hypermasculine.
I’m not saying any specific group of people are always oppressed, just that if they are your previous statement is incorrect.
If you’re pointing out imperfections in the argument, then you’re automatically a radical example of the other side. /S
I understand your point. It’s just good to highlight the things that make these groups oppressed. For the hypermasculine it’s anything that hurts their little feelings, and for trans people it is actual real persecution. And only one of these groups goes around screaming about the victim complex these days 🙄
I’ve been told drinking coffee with cream or sugar isn’t manly which I find funny, like who cares? We all have taste buds dude. IMO a “real” man isn’t concerned about what others think, he is comfortable being himself.
I drink black coffee because I have a problem. Not because I’m trying to get +1 to my role in society
Imagine being so sensitive a little bit of lightness in your coffee is enough of a devaluation to your manhood to make it a thing 😫
Not for manlyness reasons, but I would recommend not using creamer. The sugar content is so freaking high. Just add cream (milk or milk alternative) and sugar to taste. It’ll be healthier. Ideally though, if you don’t like coffee, find another way to get your caffeine fix. Get some caffeine pills or some powder that you can add to juice in the morning, which would be healthier to consume (though also high in sugar, and be careful what kind of juice, some are largely HFCS).
Know what’s manly? Doing whatever the fuck you want.
I’d like to amend that with “whatever the fuck you want, so long as you’re not hurting anyone,” because plenty of these dudes live by doing whatever they want, but they don’t give two shits about how it affects everyone else.
Oh of course.
I think what you’re saying is more about being HUmanly. Once you try to assert what manliness is and isnt it becomes clear that gender is a social construct and that people should just do what they feel is right regardless of what abstract groups they identify with
Pretty much I think the only person who’s opinion you should care about is your significant other you’re going for. Literally who cares about anyone else’s opinions lol, they aren’t a part of your life.
I fill a glass of International Delight Caramel Macchiato and add dark roast coffee as needed to thin it out. 1 to 1 1/2 ounces of coffee is the sweet spot.
I’m not saying it’s unmanly or anything, but sweet jebus that’s a lot of sugar. It’s like 5grams per tablespoon. That’s like a third.
Nothing manlier then diabetes.
God this is like the whole “cocktails are girly, real men drink beers”. I don’t care, give me a Sex on the Beach or a rum and coke. Or a good beer. Life is way too short to drink something called bitter.
“It’s literally called bitter!”
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(Alpha Male)
Since Alpha and Omega = Beginning and End, I always think an alpha male is a beginner at the art of being a male human and we should help them to become better at it.
Full release men with ongoing development are the best.
I do think self proclaimed “alpha males” need to be bullied about being still in development like some toddler. Or early Access game.
Men who work to limit women’s autonomy over their own bodies, or for that matter conservative women who punch down to bolster their fragile status have serious issues to work on and should quit afflicting them on the rest of us.
Amen
Being manly is vital to the right wing.
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No, the statement was correct already.
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What a bizarre subject to attempt to “muh both sides”.
If there is an “extreme left,” it’s people who want equality, fair voting, free health care, free higher education, and don’t give a shit how masculine someone is. Doesn’t sound extreme to me.
We need to start reminding them that their beloved Founding Fathers wore makeup, powdered wigs, frilly blouses and tights.
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Should call em the wrong.
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Seems to be a big deal when you start talking guns and mental health, but with all the fixations on “mass shootings”, they lose this little stat:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
“In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S., according to the CDC. That figure includes gun murders and gun suicides, along with three less common types of gun-related deaths tracked by the CDC: those that were accidental, those that involved law enforcement and those whose circumstances could not be determined.”
54% of those deaths were suicides. 26,368.
(43% murder, 3% “other”, accidents, etc.)
Also in 2021, 38,358 men committed suicide compared to 9,825 women.
https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html
3.9:1, if almost 4x more women than men were dying for any reason, it would be a national crisis. “Something would have to be done!”
Mental health for men? Silence.
it would be a national crisis. “Something would have to be done!”
People are already saying something has to be done because it is a national crisis. Toxic gun culture prevents any serious actions
Comprehensive mental health care for all is not being blocked by gun culture, it’s being blocked by the typical Republican calls of “SOCIALISM!!”
The right has been pretty open about what kind of America they want to live in and what they’re willing to do to get there. We should all believe them and take them seriously, because they are fucking serious.
Fascist militias are popping up left and right, and the only gun control measures that pass end up restricting the rights of citizens in blue states while red states continue expanding their own. Unless you can magically disarm the entire nation simultaneously that cat is out of the bag.
I’m optimistic about the future and hold no deluded fantasies of armed conflict, but there may come a time where you’ll wish you had access to normal capacity magazines and non-nerfed rifles. Jon Stewart is not going to come rescue you when they have you on your knees in front of a ditch.
Disarming the working class under the current hyper-capitalist regime doesn’t really work in our favor either, and in most instances gun control is proven to be a political loser that equals to nothing more than a waste of time/effort and only serves to cripple a campaign.
Solid.
Mental health is not considered enough in general. What makes you think it is worth for men?
54% of those deaths were suicides. 26,368.
Mental health for men? Silence.
There are people who advocate for “men’s rights” things, but they’re mostly conservatives, and they leave out the horrifying statistics about gun ownership among men because they’re also in the pocket of the gun lobby.
It’s a taboo subject even amongst family members of those affected to talk about the role of firearms in suicide.
The reality is that gun ownership can turn a bad, lonely night into a person’s last one by pure virtue of the fact that it’s so readily available, and so often deadly.
If your bad, lonely night is that bad and lonely, you probably were unstable to begin with.
I wonder how many of those gun suicides were actually impulsive, and how many were premeditated.
You don’t have to wonder, this has been studied: Gun owners and their families are up to 8 times much more likely to kill themselves than are non-gun-owners.
That doesn’t include attempts though. I think we agree that guns are most effective, but I’d like to see if gun owners are more predisposed to attempt than non gunners
So close…
People aren’t silent about men successfully committing suicide at a higher rate to women. You hear about it all the time. However, it isn’t an issue about men being overlooked, like you imply. Women attempt suicide at a higher rate. Why didn’t you discuss that? Is it being ignored?
The fact of the matter is suicide by firearm is the worst offender. Attempted suicide needs to be prevented for everyone equally, but firearm ownership should be more restricted, and there should also be tools out there to get your firearms away from you temporarily if you’re feeling suicidal or depressed. Men are more likely to own firearms, which is the issue that needs addressing to fix the disparity, not men being ignored.
Then any old asshole could just lie and say their neighbor or family member or spouse is suicidal, and disarm them. Abusers absolutely will exploit that to subjugate their victims.
And it’s not really moral to say those men shouldn’t be allowed to kill themselves if they want anyway. Do people have self-ownership or not? Yes or no?
Others could be injured in a firearm suicide, and someone still has to clean up the mess. Self-euthanasia is it’s own topic, but I think most could agree that the solution to assisted suicide isn’t allowing unstable people to own firearms.
Any other solution would require getting permission from the state to die in some way or another, meaning you effectively don’t have a right to die on your terms.
I disagree, ropes are easy to find or make, and you only need a couple pounds of force to asphyxiate; people hang themselves from doorknobs and shit, it’s super reliable if you do it right.
Allowing unstable people to own firearms is a danger to others, and would only increase impulsive suicides and messy survivors.
It comes down whether you find that having a gun is a fundamental right or something. I just don’t think it is. Yes, it’s a perfectly acceptable cost for a random acquaintance to make a fake complaint and get my gun taken. It would be only a mild inconvenience to have my gun taken away even permanently. I do like going to the range and shooting, it’s a fun sport for sure, but it’s not my identity.
It’s not just a fundamental right but the basis by which rights even can exist. Without access to violence, you cannot say no, and you cannot stop other people from doing whatever they want to you, meaning you are without rights without access to weaponry, namely guns.
Violence does not require firearms, nor would our pea shooters do anything to an Abrams or Bradley, or anything else slightly up armored. Unless you think this “fundamental right” includes anti-tank and anti-air weaponry, then the argument is moot. Homemade explosives will be much better for the fight than your “operator firearm” with no tactics training. Then, during the fight, there will be plenty of guns to be looted from those fighting you. Revolutions don’t require armed citizens. They never have. They require smart and inventive citizens who use gorilla tactics.
Idk what world you live in, but i say no all the time to people and i stop them from doing whatever they want to me all the time without resorting to violence, havent resorted to violence at all since i was teenager. If the cops want to arrest me, a gun won’t stop them either.
Yes we have self ownership but i would also want my family and friends to stop me if i got irrational for a moment and tried to burn down my house. I do believe we should have a right to euthanasia but if im not terminally ill i absolutely want my family to stop my from committing suicide in a moment of desperation.
That’s your choice, sure, but not everyone’s, and forcing people to live is very, very much worse than death. I’ve witnessed it happen for myself. All suicide prevention is is denying someone else their autonomy, self-ownership, and rights so you can make yourself feel better. Even in crisis, people do not lose their rights.
Yes euthanasia is very logical, but allowing people to kill themselves in a moment of desperation is not. Sure, if there’s an argument that perpetual depression is a good reason for euthanasia, i buy that.
But letting someone kill themselves because they got really drunk and really sad one night, for example is not “respecting self autonomy.”
You were doing so well until you tried the “People care so much more about women’s health! Pity me!” line.
Strange how Viagra is required to be covered by all insurance but birth control isn’t. Whose priorities are privileged there?
It’s not about pitying me, it’s about pitying the state of men in general, where, if the genders were reversed, it would be considered a national crisis.
For example:
https://universitybusiness.com/men-are-falling-behind-in-higher-ed-and-it-may-not-be-letting-up/
Key stats:
“Women became the majority demographic to attend college decades ago, and today, they make up almost 60% of U.S. college undergraduates.”
(between 2017 and 2022) “male enrollment at 4-year public institutions has dropped nearly 6% more than women, according to the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. Among all student demographics in this sector, white men experienced the sharpest decline in enrollment, falling nearly 20%.”
“The rate at which men are graduating from 4-year institutions is 6% less than that of women, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.”
“The Class of 2023 reported that while 68% of young men want to go to college, only 57% expect to actually attend. On the other hand, 83% of young women want to go to college, and 77% expect to go.”
Or…
“In 2021, the average life expectancy was 73.2 years for men and 79.1 years for women.”
None of this is incorrect.
But I have been hearing about this plenty. For example, in the article we are discussing.
I hear what you are saying but I wouldn’t even say that line about if it were women it’d be a national crisis. Time has shown again and again that society will gladly throw away a group of people without needing to devalue your words with a statement like that.
Anyway there’s a lot of things to discuss around this.
We can dive into the societal role of men with being encouraged to bottle up because “grown men don’t cry” and toxic masculinity.
We can talk about rates of gun ownership between genders that is a big factor in suicide risk.
We can unpack the issue with people not having the money for mental health resources. Which can be solved through general wage increases or through the state.
The point is to say that instead of using a crisis to step another group of people we should be approaching these things from a point of intersectionality.
Edit: Just to be on topic I am completely for restrictions on guns as a easier means to dealing with shootings.
The crazy people shouting “dont take my guns” while also touting the line of “it’s a mental health isssue” without being open to addressing that problem gets me so worked up.
America, not even once.
And also their tendency to unleash face-eating leopards.
IMO, the focus should be on being a good person and not on conforming to unrealistic gender stereotypes. One’s gender presentation (or lack) is enhanced by universal positive attributes like honesty, confidence, commitment, charity, etc. This is not an original idea, but thought it worth saying.
Well said. We all spend a lot of time criticizing, and not enough time building up. Here are a few more (rather heavily paraphrased) ways to be a good person that I feel strongly about:
Admire people who recognize their insufficiency, mourn, show humility, seek justice, are merciful, have a pure heart, work for peace, or are oppressed for doing the right thing.
Understand you’re incapable of perfection, and so is everybody else.
If you’re angry with someone, call them an idiot, or curse them, beware of the consequences.
Settle conflict with others quickly before it escalates.
Be faithful to all your vows in both thought and action.
Resist the urge for vengeance; flip the script by going above and beyond for those who take advantage of you.
Give to those who ask for help or want to borrow what you have.
Stand out from the crowd by showing kindness and compassion to those who hate you.
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If this isn’t sarcasm, what is that based on?
I’d bet they assume anything they don’t like is mental illness. Probably anyone LGBTQ is mentally ill by their definition. Anything they agree with is mental prowess though. People can hold whatever opinions they want, but some are more valid than others, and this one is not valid.
if you try “leftists (or liberals) more likely to be mentally ill” in a search engine you see things like:
American adults who identify as politically liberal have long reported lower levels of happiness and psychological well-being than conservatives, a trend that mental-health experts suspect is at least partly explained by liberals’ tendency to spend more time worrying about stress-inducing topics like racial injustice, income inequality, gun violence, and climate change.
https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals
Actually, he’s right. A quick Startpage search offers this.
Have you considered that the mentally ill are treated like shit by right leaning people hence they deconstruct the abuse and learn a thing or two about the abuse and it’s causes in addition to naturally gravitating to people who are more compassionate? Have you considered that scapegoating is causing mental illness in the first place? Sure, it’s not an inherent trait of right political views, it is, however, a trait of the majority of republicans in the us. In addition to that have you considered the stigma around mental health, perpetuated by the republicans, that forces people to not seek psychological help and consider all struggles “normal” and “everyone experiences/feels that”?
It’s the truth as shown by research. If you don’t like it, take it up with academia, not me.
I’m not a right-winger nor do I ascribe to their way of thinking.
In this case, they unfortunately do have facts backing up their assertion that there is greater prevalence of mental illness among the left.
Other people using it to scapegoat the left for whatever reason doesn’t change that.
“Take it up with academia” while you’re the one here misinterpreting the research. Great job.
You didn’t even read the article, you’re just mad that it even exists or that there’s even factual basis for something some dumb right wingers said, and that honestly is not my problem.
Intellectual honesty is vital especially in this day and age and unless you demonstrate it by being willing to admit your enemy is right sometimes, and mitigating those issues, you’re never going to succeed in anything.
No I’m not. I’m mad that people think mental illness happens just because and I’m mad that people stigmatize it and everything related to different neurological development/traits. I absolutely despise that shit. What I also hate is when people equate correlation to causation. I also hate when people ignore my points and decide to treat facts in the newly added to the conversation context like opinions while hypocritically telling the other person “you’re just mad at the facts”
Maybe people on the right are less likely to seek out help from mental health professionals. People on the left have less reservations about it, and therefore see more diagnoses.
That where my mind went as well, selection bias.
“manliness”
In this context, the definition is being a chronic asshole and getting away with it.
I run a bakery and helped a lady with a cake for her husband. She was constantly asking me if these were masculine enough colors and designs lol. I tricked them with trans pride colors. Worrying about your masculinity is one of the least masculine things you can do.
I have never eaten a cake that had “masculine features and designs”
How about a cake in the shape of a bicep, kind of like this flyer?
Well, hopefully you didn’t get her beaten by an abusive spouse.
