Honestly, you should’ve just known to not engage. Nothing productive will ever come out of it. That troll was already banned a long time ago, why dredge this back up?
LITERALLLYYYYYY like get over ittttt!
OP has actively said dozens of times they don’t intend to participate in any LBZ community ever again and has blocked the instance. Whether the rule is “good” or not aside, it’s so cringe of OP to be butthurt about it.
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I believe Pug that it’s not about wanting to misgender per se. But there is definitely an unkept desire to carry out uncalled-for maltreatment in a white-knight vigilante justice fashion.
Which has its roots in noble motivations but is explicitly hurtful to the trans space, and it’s unforgivable that Pug won’t just listen to trans people on this.
Which has its roots in noble motivations but is explicitly hurtful to the trans space, and it’s unforgivable that Pug won’t just listen to trans people on this.
You mean “It’s unforgivable that Pug won’t listen to the trans folk I agree with; the ones who I disagree with don’t matter”
Which has its roots in noble motivations but is explicitly hurtful to the trans space, and it’s unforgivable that Pug won’t just listen to trans people on this.
“But I’m an ally! Sure I ignore the voices of those I claim to support and said I am right as a cis person, I don’t agree with their safe spaces ran by them, and I refuse to change my mind despite hundreds of them agreeing in unison, but I’m an ally to them!”
I think there’s a letter from Birmingham Jail about this kind of “ally” to a cause.
precisely!
PJ is desperate to misgender someone who was rude to them, and still can’t get over the drama of it all, months later.
It’s cute that you have these elaborate headcanons you make up about me, but me and Drag hardly ever interacted.
So why can Draconic Neo have Drag harass them and not misgender Drag, but you have “hardly ever interacted” with Drag and argue non-stop for months to misgender them?
So why can Draconic Neo have Drag harass them and not misgender Drag, but you have “hardly ever interacted” with Drag and argue non-stop for months to misgender them?
“Argue nonstop for months”
The fuck?
I’m sorry that I don’t regard dragons as real. I’m sorry that I regard human beings as human beings.
Honestly, you should’ve just known to not engage. Nothing productive will ever come out of it. That troll was already banned a long time ago, why dredge this back up?
Because the issue of 196 came up, and it was said that the only people who were driven off of Blahaj were nasty transphobes. I pointed out that comments were removed and people were banned for comments as mild as “Dragons don’t exist” or “I disagree with this.”
Drag is a troll, and when you lie down with dogs you get fleas.
Don’t compare that troll to dogs
Dogfucker will be the next gender to be defended, don’t worry.
“My gender is a quintuple-spirit, a label I’ve created; I believe my gender identity combines elements normally included in different gender labels and I feel NB is too broad” - Conceptually valid. I can’t say how true or ‘deep’ any given gender label is, but I’m generally inclined to let people be themselves and try to assist them in their journeys of self-discovery, whether this is where it begins or ends. Rock on, Spirit-Of-Many-Spirits.
“My gender is a chair.” - Nonsense.
I think of the streamer and event organizer Deakula who is nonbinary and had a decently large list of labels they identify with, and like while I don’t really entirely get it as I can’t relate, it makes sense.
Dragon rider however isn’t a gender identity and has nothing to do with gender.
You’re really laying it on thick here how much you love queer people. Slippery slope fallacies galore.
“Gay people wanna be married? What’s next, men and dogs?! Men and chairs?!”
You’re really laying it on thick here how much you love queer people. Slippery slope fallacies galore.
“Gay people wanna be married? What’s next, men and dogs?! Men and chairs?!”
Dragons, apparently. Didn’t realize Dragongender was acceptable but Chairgender wasn’t. Sounds like someone caught the transphobe disease 😲
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You should block drag. Drag is a known troll.
Hasn’t drag be banned too, for harassment?
Yes, dragonfucker was banned from all of blahaj.zone for sharing DMs.
They were from 196 (old 196, not sure about the other one under new management) and a few other comms, but not from the instance to my knowledge.
Okay. I thought there had been a total account ban at some point, but not sure
YDI
Like it or not, it is a widely known fact that the exact things you said are instance bannable.
The instance rules as they exist are explained in multiple places, and it is our choice as users to either follow them or stay away. If we choose to do neither of those, banning is the only real tool an admin has with current lemmy development. If there were other options available, and the instance ban was applied as a first step, I’d say PTB (though it would be PTA in this case).
Seriously, I get that the world as a whole, and each given language has to figure out what is and isn’t a gender, what is and isn’t going to become part of the consensus of a language. I have my own opinion about that line, but this isn’t the venue for that.
But that instance, they have drawn their line, and did so last year, before the events in these screen shots. It’s like travelling to another US state, there are going to be some laws that differ, and it’s the travelers responsibility to follow them even if they disagree with them, or there are consequences.
I get it, I do. But, I’m sorry, this is absolutely on you.
The problem here to my mind is that this was a ban for a “thought crime” and it was on another instance. OP always uses peoples preferred pronouns, even if he thinks they don’t make sense, as in this case, so he hasn’t broken any instance rules afaik. Is there a rule about not being allowed to even discuss neopronouns? On another instance? That is getting very dystopian imo. Unless someone can point to a rule that says you can’t even discuss the topic of neopronouns, then this is clearly a case of over-reach imo. PTB
The rule isn’t about discussing anything, the rule is about making directed commentary on the validity of other users’ gender, which serves as a honeypot for more hateful behavior. Ada has been explicit and open about this and Pug is not the first to receive a preemptive ban for off-instance action.
So yes to thought crime then.
and Pug is not the first to receive a preemptive ban for off-instance action.
I don’t think that comes off the way you think it does.
The instance rules as they exist are explained in multiple places, and it is our choice as users to either follow them or stay away.
I literally have not posted in any Blahaj comm in months.
It’s like travelling to another US state, there are going to be some laws that differ, and it’s the travelers responsibility to follow them even if they disagree with them, or there are consequences.
But I’m not the traveler here. These comments were not in Blahaj.
AFAIK an instance ban also bans you from every community on it that you have participated in, so that would be why it shows up like that.
I don’t think that’s correct. A while back I was banned en masse from the lemmy.ml communities I was subscribed to, but only those, and not the whole instance. I think that’s what happened here, though I don’t know what the admin tools look like.
The admin tools of Lemmy are frightfully primitive. Federated bans aren’t separated between local bans, so if you ban a person on your instance then they get temp banned on their home instance, when their home instance ban expires, their ban will disappear from your instance too. If I remember correctly for a long time Lemmy didn’t even have an admin page or ability to view votes, you had to configure that all manually in the backend.
Nowadays we have pages to view votes on posts, and also an admin settings page for the local site settings and to manage bans, but that’s about it.
They recently made it so site bans would also add community bans since people can still participate in remote versions of the community without doing that, sometimes even having it federate. It’s a hack until site bans can be federated with remote versions of communities.
Hmm. Well, when that happened to me, it was only a ban from those communities. I was still able to participate in others.
You can still participate in communities you were site banned from at least at the moment since they haven’t implemented that feature yet and the scripted bans only are enacted in communities you participated in prior to the site ban.
Okay, so it’s just that a “site ban” isn’t.
Yeah, site bans ≠ community bans. What Site bans do is to is stop federation requests to the instance you’re site banned from but they don’t stop you from participating in the community.
Both PTB and YDI.
They might have some militant admins, but you’re also arguing about pointless shit.
Am I going nuts? I thought I saw this exact post like 2 weeks ago with all these comments, but now it shows up 2 hours old.
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uses Drag’s pronouns despite everything
doesn’t even interact with Drag often
“PugJesus just wants to misgender rude people”
🤷♂️
You were told that’s not the way to deal with trolls once, twice, a hundred times. Maybe listen to trans people about the kind of language they do and don’t want spewing everywhere in their communities next time. Your white-knighting crash out is honestly embarrassing, but the fact that you still refuse to listen to trans people about what makes toxic the space they made for themselves to be comfortable and safe for once on the internet is frankly worse.
Block. Report. Disengage. It’s fucking simple. YDI.
Thanks and utmost respect to Ada. I am so over this and so sorry people are like this.
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Reposting a response from a similar comment for reach:
I believe Pug that it’s not about wanting to misgender per se. But there is definitely an unkept desire to carry out uncalled-for maltreatment in a white-knight vigilante justice fashion.
Which has its roots in noble motivations but is explicitly hurtful to the trans space, and it’s unforgivable that Pug won’t just listen to trans people on this.
You were told that’s not the way to deal with trolls once, twice, a hundred times. Maybe listen to trans people about the kind of language they do and don’t want spewing everywhere in their communities next time.
Okay.
You want to point out where I was ‘spewing’ anything in any of Ada’s communities in the period just before this ban?
Go ahead.
I don’t get why the onus is on everyone else to ignore and block trolls when it’s the mod’s and admin’s jobs to keep the trolls out to begin with.
That human stain should have been blacklisted from lemmy a long time ago. And yet there are SO many people that protect the shithead- including entire instances.
It’s like it’s a huge leap for people to understand that one can respect the trans community, and hate a troll that is mocking them at the same fucking time.
The trolls are out. Banned. Because we reported them. Because that’s what the admins told us to do. You are fighting against an issue that is literally gone.
Wrong.
It’s not because you said “comms” to mean something other than “communications”?
Communities
Get me the comms line, stat
It’s blahaj zone, at this point it’s old news that they would literally welcome a person in blackface acting a caricature of a slave into a racially diverse community. They believe you hate mockeries of minorities because you hate minorities. I’m 🤏 very close to blocking the whole instance. So counterproductive.
Dragons aren’t even real. An occupation, hobby, or sexual preference isn’t a gender identity. First and second person pronouns aren’t misgendering. So stupid how long that has went on. I’d get banned from the whole instance for this paragraph. Hey guess what, lines need to be drawn, and those who cross it should be removed. Would you want a Minecraft fan calling their Minecraft enjoyment a mental disorder a prominent figure in a community for people with mental disorders? Call out the fakers and ban them ffs. Yes, you can fake being transgender. For starters, you can’t fucking transition into a dragon rider.
Edit: noticed more pictures on this post. Didn’t dragonfucker literally harass draconicneo with porn, nudes, death threats, and suicide encouragement like? Why is draconicneo defending this good for nothing bully who never grew up? The gate should be kept to exclude offensive caricatures and fakers used to make minorities look bad. Hey guess what, they exist.
Ugh what’s next, defending actual cis men playing in women’s sports to win more and going in the women’s restroom to rape people? Right, calling that out would be gatekeeping too huh? Yeah, that’ll definitely have less people side with transphobic politicians. I hope blahaj does not get big like bluesky, they are literally setting LGBT rights wayyyy back to nazi germany at this point.
Just so we’re clear. I’ve never defended dragonfucker in any way shape or form. Dragonfucker is an evil person who is utterly and completely beyond redemption.
Do not misrepresent my words here. What you and OP and people like you have done is to all attack the idea of neopronouns and xenogenders and defend gatekeeping and blatant transphobia. I do not support gender based gatekeeping in any way, and the dismissal of all neopronouns and xenogenders is offensive and harmful.
Ultimately when it comes to people like dragonfucker it ends up making a bad situation worse. It ends up making people think their only crime is “pRoNOuNs” and it makes it harder to actually speak up about them. When everyone was complaining about dragonfucker’s pronouns I wasn’t able to share what really happened effectively because of idiots drowning me out because they were upset they had to respect pronouns and refused to point out the real reasons dragonfucker is a troll and an evil person.
Why is draconicneo defending this good for nothing bully who never grew up?
What do you think would happen to an actually vulnerable person who really needs and values the queer-accepting space, if they went against the groupthink and started saying they didn’t accept dragonfucker and in fact that person had done some messed up stuff?
(I have no idea if DraconicNEO is that, I’m just saying that anybody at this point who is in that category is now required to accept and be obedient to trolls, or else they will be ostracized too, and they clearly have more to lose from it than PugJesus.)
they are literally setting LGBT rights wayyyy back to nazi germany at this point.
I have no idea what the goal was from the blahaj admins, but from at least some of the trolls, I think it’s pretty obvious that this is the point.
They should go to an actually queer accepting space. Accepting literal bigoted mockeries is not acceptance. This reminds me of the “radqueer” thing on Tumblr and TikTok where people who copy and fake disorders or LGBT identities are accepted. Even better they would call themselves trans [disorder] like trans-blind for example, because they wish they were blind. Actually blind people would be referred to cis-blind Because transgender people just wish they were the gender they identify as, right? It’s infuriating.
The gates and lines serve a purpose. It is okay to exclude bigots.
They should go to an actually queer accepting space.
Yeah, fair point. Pretty much all of Lemmy is queer-positive.
I sort of suspect that some of the nuttiness on blahaj is because the whole rest of Lemmy (a handful of tankies aside) is queer-positive, so they had to get really outlandish with it in order to be able to stand out in any way as “officially queer friendly,” more so than the other instances. And it also seems like they might have inherited some of Hexbear’s early-Lemmy “I am officially the right grouping, so I get to be an absolute knobhead and it is ok” ethos. But the truth is all of that is is just guessing. I have no idea.
I sort of suspect that some of the nuttiness on blahaj is because the whole rest of Lemmy (a handful of tankies aside) is queer-positive, so they had to get really outlandish with it in order to be able to stand out in any way as “officially queer friendly,” more so than the other instances. And it also seems like they might have inherited some of Hexbear’s early-Lemmy “I am officially the right grouping, so I get to be an absolute knobhead and it is ok” ethos. But the truth is all of that is is just guessing. I have no idea.
I think it’s the Tumblr swarm mentality, personality.
I sort of suspect that leftist communication places which show some kind of potential for people to develop unity, agree on common ground and form connections which might eventually be able to grow into something like /r/50501 or /r/SandersForPresident or something, become absolutely infested with bizarre hot-button arguing about vegan cat food or “transracial” or whether dragon is a gender, to pretty effective detriment of them being able to do that other thing. How much of it is from column “it be like that” and how much from column “it is on purpose to destroy the left,” I have no idea at all.
You’re not wrong. But also, the people who seem to be telling you that even bringing this whole issue up or worrying about it with any level of impassioned-ness might just be adding fuel to the bullshit, may kind of have a point I think. But yes, also, you’re not wrong.
You’re not wrong. But also, the people who seem to be telling you that even bringing this whole issue up or worrying about it with any level of impassioned-ness might just be adding fuel to the bullshit, may kind of have a point I think. But yes, also, you’re not wrong.
Like I said elsewhere in this thread - the only reason it got brought up to begin with was the accusation that everyone who left Blahaj on 196 did so because they were transphobes, and I wasn’t going to just smile and take that.
Yeah. I thought about wading into a big spiteful discussion about the precise meaning of the words “transphobia” and “misgendering” and the specific way they are being defined and used in this thread, and then I thought, “You know what? Not my circus, not my monkeys. It is of no concern.”
Guys: Are you (all of you) still going to be doing big performative stinks about this on whichever side, when the rate of people going into the camps goes into the thousands, or hundreds of thousands, instead of just big handfuls like they have now? That thing the German tourist said about people screaming the whole time she was there sort of got brushed aside in passing, when I felt like it should have gotten a lot more scrutiny.
Not what’s happening at all. The admin just doesn’t want users to be the ones dealing with trolls by dogpiling them because it attracts more and amplified bigotry to an already vulnerable space. Users are asked to block and report troll users instead of misgendering and it works wonderfully.
Your comparison of LBZ to Nazi Germany is disgusting victim blaming and betrays a stunning lack of empathy.
The gate should be kept to exclude offensive caricatures and fakers used to make minorities look bad. Hey guess what, they exist.
They wanted freedom for marginalized folk to explore their gender identities - this is valid. Unfortunately, in search of that, they decided that that meant that no discussion or dissent could be made as to where the lines are on what gender is, or even whether there should be lines. This is gibberish.
I hope blahaj does not get big like bluesky, they are literally setting LGBT rights wayyyy back to nazi germany at this point.
Nah. Of all the factors sending LGBT rights backwards, backlash against weird groups who don’t know when to stop isn’t one of them. Would be like blaming racist backlash in the late 70s and 80s on Black Supremacists emerging during and after the Civil Rights movement. Or sexist backlash in the same period being in response to Lesbian Separatists and the like. Such people exist, and they’re silly, but they’re not influential on a scale larger than… well…
This. Here. Small communities.
It’s blahaj though, so it’s not really a huge loss. Let them circle the wagons around an embarrassing little troll that mocks transgenderism.
Yes, dragonfucker was banned from all of blahaj.zone for sharing DMs.
Right…. It took them sharing DMs to finally get banned after all the other drama they caused.
That little shithead feeds on drama.
Right…. It took them sharing DMs to finally get banned after all the other drama they caused.
“It’s fine until it affects me” sort of thinking.
Yep. Exactly. They weren’t banned because of their trolling. They were banned for showing DMs which means- they’d still be allowed to keep making their drama had they not shared a few DMs.
The troll you are complaining about has been banned from most communities for months and the entire instance for weeks. Ada simply asked users not to dogpile and do vigilante justice against offensive users in order to keep the community a positive experience for all trans people, yet you’re still white knighting about an issue that doesn’t even exist anymore. :)
Ada protected that shithead for months when we tried to let them know they were a troll. There’s plenty of evidence to validate the accusation, but no, instead of banning the piece of shit- they removed/banned people that called them a troll instead.
And if ada is still an admin, then the issue still exists. So I’m not white knighting shit. Admins have a pretty easy job. And it seems Ada would rather protect trolls under a broad banner than even think that someone would use that banner as a means to hide in plain sight and create drama around their mockery of it.
Yeah, I’m not really upset over it per se. Like I said - I haven’t even used any Blahaj comm in months. I just thought it ridiculous that I caught an instance ban from an instance I no longer use because I posted, on another instance entirely, criticism of the idea of ‘dragonfucker’ as a gender.
Putting your current situation aside, would you find it reasonable if another user got banned from Blahaj from transphobic statements on another community?
Or would you expect the Blahaj admins to wait for that user to make such statements on their communities?
Putting your current situation aside, would you find it reasonable if another user got banned from Blahaj from transphobic statements on another community?
Not particularly? I regard bans for off-comm behavior as ridiculous, speaking as a mod. Off-instance behavior seems doubly strange, and I’ve commented on such incidents before.
Furthermore, the issue of whether this is transphobic is, itself, core to to the point - most people would not regard the existence of dragons as a matter that relates to transphobia at all. Yet to Blahaj, it would seem an instance-bannable offense - regardless of whether you’re on their instance at the time of the comment, or even if you ever post on their instance.
Or would you expect the Blahaj admins to wait for that user to make such statements on their communities?
I would expect the Blahaj admins to not be prowling other instances for thoughtcrime.
Yeah. Blocked the admins and the instance. That place is hot garbage.
YDI
You were banned by Ada because you keep dying on the hill of whether Drag’s pronouns should be respected or not based on dragons being fictional creatures that don’t exist in real life. This is the thread that got you banned: https://lemmy.world/comment/15410416
Drag was very obviously a troll and deserved to be called out for constant shit-stirring, but it’s not up to you or anyone else to decide whether their pronouns should be respected or not regardless if it’s a troll. Especially in an instance designed to provide a safe space for LGBTQ+ folk. Making such a big deal out of Drag’s neopronouns not only distracted people from the very real problems Drag was causing with their shitty behaviour, but also made people rush to Drag’s defense because it made them look like a victim rather than the instigator of drama and harassment they really were. You can call someone out for being shitty without resorting to bigotry, whether you recognize it as such or not.
Of course, Drag’s gone now (well, until they make yet another alt) so this doesn’t really matter anymore, but your continued gatekeeping of their pronouns is what ultimately led to your ban. This wasn’t just a random ban, you brought it on yourself. Pick better battles next time.
Drag was very obviously a troll and deserved to be called out for constant shit-stirring, but it’s not up to you or anyone else to decide whether their pronouns should be respected or not regardless if it’s a troll.
As explicitly mentioned, at no point did I intentionally fail to use Drag’s preferred pronouns.
Making such a big deal out of Drag’s neopronouns not only distracted people from the very real problems Drag was causing with their shitty behaviour, but also made people rush to Drag’s defense because it made them look like a victim rather than the instigator of drama and harassment they really were.
Yes, yes, everyone else forced you to run to Drag’s defense. It’s like being in a US church again. Anything unwise the in-group does, they were forced to by the out-group
temptingluringmanipulatingprovoking them into doing it.Of course, Drag’s gone now so this doesn’t really matter anymore, but your continued gatekeeping of their pronouns is what ultimately led to your ban. This wasn’t just a random ban, you brought it on yourself. Pick better battles next time.
You mean “continued gatekeeping of Drag’s pronouns”
Who gives a shit
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Neopronouns are not bullshit. But there does need to be some basis by which normal people can understand and utilize them.
Language is not static, and if enough people adopt an alternative set of pronouns, congrats, it’s a thing.
Genuine question. Since I don’t want to disrespect people, but don’t want to validate people mocking real life gender identities.
What is a Neopronoun that isn’t a human being wanting to be something other than a human being?
Are there any Neopronouns that involve staying as a human and living in reality?
Are there any Neopronouns that involve staying as a human and living in reality?
Most neopronouns are either gender-neutral or specifically NB, and do not make any claims on being other species. Xe/Xer is one of the most common ones - simply being a gender-neutral singular form of ‘He/Him’, ‘She/Her’, ‘They/Them’, etc.
Every single person that uses language decides for themself how to communicate their ideas: how to make the language work.
If the language works to communicate ideas to the intended audience, then it works. People invent new ways to make language work every day.
Work in physics is the transfer of energy by a force acting on a path through space. Let’s consider “Lork” an analogous concept to work, but it’s a transfer of entropy (information) by a meme acting on a path through a social network.
Sometimes the meme communicates better with unusual language structures. Those unusual language structures can be used to call attention and bring their own crunchy deep-fried feel to the meme.
Is it wrong if the meme still has the Lork to communicate the desired message? What if the “improperness” of the grammar helps to increase the Lork?
Language as we know it is being devoured and reimagined. Join in on the fun.
It’s the fact they (including the Blahaj admins) demand everyone else use language in the same way they do that rankles with me.
Language should not be dictated by any authoritarian body. We should all be the authors of our own lives and free to choose how to communicate our ideas.
It’s not language being dictated, but it’s usage, and I understand that aspect of it.
I mean, besides the obvious “you shouldn’t use hate speech,” if someone tells me that their pronouns are they/them and I ignore that and just keep using she/her, that would be incredibly disrespectful. It’s not about whether it’s grammatically valid or not, it’s the meaning and intent.
That being said, I think Drag is where I’d draw the line. It’s not that I don’t respect neopronouns, but rather that I think Drag is an insincere troll. Not to mention that the whole purpose behind neopronouns is to work around the gendered nature of standard third-person pronouns, but mandating that it also needs to apply to the gender-agnostic first- and second-person pronouns makes no sense.
There is an argument to be made for neopronouns. I think the discussion is conceptually valid, even if I hope the simple classic they/them becomes standard.
Personalized neopronouns I’m less certain of the utility of, but I use as a courtesy when asked. I may be short, irritable, bad-tempered, ill-humored, and judgmental, but I’m not going to go out of my way to be a dick. If someone asks to modify some minor matter of my speech patterns to accommodate them, whether for clarity or comfort, I generally try to oblige.
“I am a Dragon rawr, acknowledge me”?
Courtesy has limits.
“I am a Dragon rawr” sounds pretty innocent and playful to be above your bar for respect. People should have the right to be playful and have fun, otherwise fuck life amirite? Maybe if you played along, you’d have fun too.
I don’t agree you should be banned.
“I am a Dragon rawr” sounds pretty innocent and playful to be above your bar for respect. People should have the right to be playful and have fun, otherwise fuck life amirite?
I mean, I’m not saying they don’t have the right to be playful and have fun, but I don’t regard the idea that I should be forced to play their game with them particularly positively. And when it starts to dip into serious matters, we have a, well, serious problem. Like Drag insisting that not acknowledging dragons was transphobic - when transphobia is a real and serious issue. I’m not going to treat such assertions with respect in that context.
Maybe if you played along, you’d have fun too.
Gimme a source on the “not acknowledging dragons was transphobic” comment. On its face, that sounds like a joke with about as much sarcasm as the comic you posted.
Fuck, really? Making me go through Drag’s comment history? Fine.
YDI.
I don’t know what this impulse is that people have to weigh in on the legitimacy of other people’s genders, but I’m tired of people running to communities like this one just to lick their wounds when they get rightfully swatted across the nose.
