Due to the recent ban of a wolfballs.com-user for “Bigotry and racism on his main account on Wolfball.” it is requested that Lemmy.ml updates the Code of Conduct to reflect actual moderation. Please consider adding that Lemmy.ml will ban users for comments made with other accounts on other instances.

    • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
      143·
      2 years ago

      I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”

      And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

      Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

      And i was like, ohok and he continues.

      "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

      And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

      And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

      And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

      https://nitter.ca/IamRageSparkle/status/1280892535024619522#m

      • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
        167·
        2 years ago

        If I understand your story right, we should proactively ban people because their friends might violate rules in the future? It sounds similar to the story of Minority Report, but that was supposed to be a dystopia, not an inspiration to implement irl.

            • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
              115·
              2 years ago

              I don’t need to argue anything. Fuck fascists. If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

              If you enable fascists to speak then what do you even stand for?

              To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.

              To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

              I don’t claim to be unbiased. I don’t claim to be fair. Because being unbiased and fair is for people who don’t have to worry about their own survival. LGBT people have already learned this lesson when we’ve been hunted down in the past. You gotta nip this shit in the bud before it takes root.

              If you make this place a safe haven for these people, then it’s not safe for me or people like me, and I will treat it like radioactive waste.

              • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
                107·
                2 years ago

                You are proposing to change lemmy.ml rules so that users can be banned for activity on other sites. Your only argument for this rule change seems to be the claim that wolfballs.com is fascist. You havent shown any evidence to support this claim, and its far from obvious when browsing the site. So I dont see any justification for such a rule change.

              • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
                78·
                2 years ago

                If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

                This is exactly why non-MLs look at half the commies and shake their heads. If all you scream is “fascist” and literally refuse to explain, then all we gather is “They call people they don’t like fascists”. Then commies get mad the rest of us “can’t see” the proper way.

                To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

                How does this not counter your first point? If you don’t practice what you believe in when it actually matters, you don’t have beliefs, you have hobbies.

                Edit: This thread has gone on for many comments. Read them for a laugh. Basically they never proved the original guy is racist, only got increasingly frustrated. Which is honestly surprising, since I believe the guy is probably a racist PoS, but all I asked for was proof of it.

                • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
                  93·
                  2 years ago

                  I have literally linked to where the guy is being racist and seanchai has quoted his homophobic and transphobic remarks. It’s plain as day. I’m calling this shit out because it makes me feel unsafe to be here as a queer person.

                  Also, how do you not know what a dogwhistle is?

                  • comfy@lemmy.ml
                    54·
                    2 years ago

                    It’s counterproductive to conflate racism, homophobia and transphobia with fascism.

                    They’re all disgusting behaviors. Make no mistake, they’re all mindless, anti-social, and dangerous. However lumping them into the term fascism trivializes what makes fascism in particular dangerous or appealing to its audience, it falsely suggests that fascism without those traits, a national fascism rather than a racial fascism (which is indeed what some fascists propose) isn’t reprehensible, and makes people who have seen a defintion of fascism think it’s just an ignorant slur just like calling any queer person a liberal, which will make people just not listen.

                    You don’t have to be one to be the other. They’re all horrible. Don’t pretend their problem is being a fascist; their problem is being a racist anti-queer idiot.

                  • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
                    58·
                    2 years ago

                    Congrats on proving both my comments for the second post in a row. Also grats on being queer? Anyways, if you’re so confident you’re right, feel free to actually reply with links of the guy being racist (instead of just saying you did), because the only post I see you doing that has 3 links to… Content not posted by the guy and non-racist content.

    • AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
      145·
      2 years ago

      Just for transparency, I was the one who banned them. In my personal opinion, I still think the ban was appropriate, but because someone who outranks me reversed it and has told me their rationale, I’m conceding the issue.

      • comfy@lemmy.ml
        58·
        2 years ago

        Well, that’s something that needs to be resolved, sooner is better than later, or it will lead to more drama later. Are you using your staff position to enforce personal opinions/preferences, or are you taking the role of a moderator enforcing site rules?

        The 4 site rules here (especially #2) seem clear to me that people shouldn’t be banned merely for their supposed personal opinions, or what they do elsewhere.

        • AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
          112·
          2 years ago

          Are you using your staff position to enforce personal opinions/preferences, or are you taking the role of a moderator enforcing site rules?

          The latter. I thought the rules were such that they should be banned. How I want the instance to be moderated (i.e. rule changes) is another question and something I’ll take up with the other admins.

          • comfy@lemmy.ml
            72·
            2 years ago

            I think it could be an opportunity to clarify some of the rules. I’ve made a post on /c/meta about clarification of the term ‘leftist’ for example, because the vagueness can easily lead to reasonable, avoidable conflict.

            • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
              71·
              2 years ago

              I agree that “leftist” is too vague, but I also havent heard any better idea how this instance could be described.

              • comfy@lemmy.ml
                3·
                2 years ago

                Well, how do the admins here define ‘leftist’?

                That’s actually a major part of my post. We can’t recommend a better idea without knowing your own definition because ‘leftist’ is just so ambiguous. That’s why it’s a problem. If I know how you define it, I can suggest a few alternatives.