This is excellent recycling of the cringe original
What’s the original?
Thanks for sharing that, even despite the uncontrollable facepalm that resulted. What’s terrible is that despite the fact that this artist is so crazy and racist, his art is actually pretty good.
That actually happens quite often because it would be so great for them if they’d stop doing hateful comics like this
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What? Really? But as a cartoon how does that even work if it’s not ironic? … He asked rhetorically, knowing the right wing humor is basically just incoherent hate.
It makes more sense as well
I have had to spend so much more time thinking about drivers on Windows than on Linux it’s not even funny
And what are Nvidia users supposed to do?
I have never had problems with Nvidia drivers on Linux mint detects them and ask if you want to install the official drivers
That’s untill you switch to Wayland and realize just how shotty Nvidia’s support can be.
LMDE didn’t install the DKMS modules on my kid’s PC, so the nVidia drivers never loaded after a new kernel got installed. I do enough tech support at work so we chucked Pop!_OS on the PC (and set it up with btrfs and timeshift-autosnap) instead. No more problems.
May not be a problem with mainline Mint, of course, but there are weirdos like me who prefer the Debian edition.
Don’t be ashamed of using Debian!
Far from it, Debian is one of my favorites, though I run EndeavourOS on my main machine.
It’s Linux Mint Debian Edition that’s the oddball, but in a good way.
press two buttons after install
Suffer. It’s ok I’m used to suffering for graphics cards. Thanks bitcoin!
It depends on your distro
I’m starting to wonder if this is a meme or if people are actually having problems.
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Less about problems and more about performance/features in games. How much of a hassle is it to get dlss, ray tracing etc running? How’s the performance impact from not properly supported drivers.
They’re supposed to buy an AMD card, obviously. /s
I wish AMD had a competitive 4090 alternative
Use POP OS which has NVIDIA Drivers in the iso
Or Nobara which has a dedicated Nvidia install tool in its welcome screen
Unfortunately it has weird issues with my bog standard Intel HP Omen laptop and a 2060 GPU.
Basically any kind of sleep mode kills the GPU. I have go into Display settings and force a re-detect to wake it. Kind of a pain when you use the laptop connected to an external monitor with the lid closed.
…to let the distro pick the best driver for you? That’s what I do at least.
cry because no Wayland
I don’t know how Linux users are using Windows but whenever I see comments like these I’m surprised they aren’t using OSX or a tablet instead of a computer by now because they clearly don’t know what they’re doing…
Yeah, I also dont get it. Most drivers by default are for windows. I have no idea how those people managed to get this confused on windows, of all OSs. Part of me thinks that its just linux circlejerk and bandwagon, but some of those has to be true.
Part of me thinks that its just linux circlejerk and bandwagon
That’s exactly what it is. It’s people that have had to get so far into the weeds with an operating system that I think they just enjoy the pain. Looking through some of the Justifications for hating Windows on here and it’s like, “I tried to use a 20 year old proprietary Webcam for a video game console and it didn’t work immediately on Windows” or a guy that had issues with getting a serial port like rs-232 or something. Neither of these things are a typical user case. These are people that are specifically looking for trouble. Use a webcam from the last decade. Use a usb port for God’s sake.There is a reason why the “I use Arch btw” joke exists
I like Linux. I use Redhat at work. But Christ the Linux Fandom is as bad as Apple.
I hard disagree. The fandom is not that bad, sure some are way too passionate. But the fandom is way broader then those whom are vocal online a FOSS federated chat platform. Not everyone use Linux because they hate Windows or MacOS, some use Linux because they’ve seriously considered the pros and cons of each available OS and come to the one that works best for them in a day to day. Some are using it to revive old hardware Windows doesn’t support anymore so they can save a few bucks (and the environment at the same time). Some bought a Steam Deck and genuinely enjoyed it and decided to try Linux on desktop and like it, and so on.
Meanwhile : Apple fanboys are the way they are because “Apple daddy can do no wrong! my system is completely unhaxable! my brand shows off how rich I am! ew! omg! 🤢 is that an Android? POOR, WE GOT A BROKIE” at least with my personal IRL interaction with a few of them.
Like at least Linux is a community project that allows you to actually get involved in the development and contribute to it. But Apple has none of that, so it makes no damn sense to be that obsessed with a brand name just because it’s
brand.So just as a voice of discord from someone who used Linux, MacOS, and Windows on an almost daily basis for various things. Not everyone that likes Apple products thinks they can do no wrong in fact I hate a lot of things they do as a company and there are many frustrating things about the ecosystem. I use MacOS as my primary daily driver, Windows everything at work, and Linux in my homelab. All have their strengths and weaknesses, I gave MacOS a try because of the M series chips(Mac Mini 32gb M1), and after hating on them relentlessly for years found it a great system to work with, I can do everything I need without issue or headache, at the end of the day its ‘a Unix system’, and I can connect fairly seamlessly with any Windows machine I need and completely seamlessly with all my Linux machines.
Not trying to convert anybody just pointing out that while Apple as a company is shitty, their products and particularly their OS is not terrible
I can agree with that judgement.
M series is probably the best thing they’ve made in years, and the OS isn’t bad, maybe a little hand-holdy at times imo, but at the end of the day it’s still a decently flexible Unix system that uses ZSH as it’s shell.
If Apple didn’t make it such a walled garden, we could’ve seen it become a really popular OS.Asahi Linux coming in clutch with bringing Linux to the M series and pushing Linux on ARM development forward tho.
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And since 2012 Windows Update can get most of them anyway
The problem is maintaining the os. Installing the drivers on windows is usually fine. Maintaining them is frustrating, because of how updates has to be done, and the dirty uninstall process, and the issues.
On many Linux distro it doesn’t work perfectly, but maintenance is so trivial that people become used to it. And going back to a high maintenance OS is annoying. Like going back from a modern EV to ford model T. Some people like the experience of going back in time to the mid 90s with Windows, other prefer the simplicity of maintaining a Linux OS
I dont get it, can you provide some examples please? I installed windows 10 like 2 years ago on my “new” laptop. I have installed all drivers from my external hardrive. Since then I havent done anything related to drivers ever. If I plug something in, like an external screen, controller, mouse, headphones whatever, it installs itself automatically and just works. I havent done any maintenance either, except I will dust it off every other month or so. And thats pretty much the same with every PC I ever owned. What OS maintenance am I supposed to be doing? I sometimes do registry cleanup and disk defrags, but I thinks those are just placebos :D
There no real control of what and how you installed stuff. This create long term issues. This is why you perform registry clean up. But it is not enough, because of orphaned and conflicting dlls, inconsistent installation paths, conflicting versions. You probably don’t see just because you are used to the issues and you think that’s how things work.
If you install a better os, everything is accurately and centrally managed, making maintenance much more easy. Problem is with closed sourced software and drivers, because they break the normal processes of installation and maintenance, creating similar issues as in windows (not as bad because the os is better engineered)…
I dont notice them because they are not happening, or at least because I dont see them. Can you please provide specific examples of what I am supposed to be seeing that breaks?
Slowness of the system that increase with time since last reinstallation of the OS, dll conflicts (you also have a Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLL_Hell), corrupted registry, conflicting drivers, configurations, libraries.
I am not saying anything controversial, it is one among the main complaints about windows, together with worse resource management and less general stability.
That’s the reason you find windows for accountants, but no one uses windows for complex systems that have to be stable, reliable and maintainable.
Many casual users live with these issues, many move to mac, few move to linux
That’s the reason you find windows for accountants, but no one uses windows for complex systems that have to be stable, reliable and maintainable.
Like how the international space station ditched Windows for Linux because "…we needed an operating system that was stable and reliable – one that would give us in-house control.” or how NASA used Linux for the Mars helicopter.
I’ve never done any registry cleanup for years now, ever since I know better than to think Windows need any of that. How many years ago have you used Windows? You’re like that Windows user that keeps telling people you can’t game on Linux. It’s old news by now.
Often the conversation here feels like the commenter hasn’t used Windows since XP. I use Windows and Linux daily and I think most commenters are wrong with their trash talk of Windows but right with their prop talk of Linux.
If you install a better os, everything is accurately and centrally managed, making maintenance much more easy.
This is so true, especially if you’re doing any development. Everything just builds from the package before it more or less. So you don’t end up with duplicates of the same code and end up with /programfileA/blah.whatever being different from /proframfileB/blah.whatever and fucking around for hours cause ‘the file is updated, and it’s pointed to the right file. Why does it say it’s not’. Until you figure out it wasn’t pointed to the right file/package and you kick yourself for missing such a stupid mistake. Ask me how I know lol
I unfortunately have to deal with it daily at work… With a premium laptop that cost thousands, and it is extremely less performant than much smaller and older machines with linux (I use linux at work as well).
I am not saying anything controversial. It is literally the reason why windows professionally is used for accountants, but it is practically never used for tasks that require performances, reliability, stability and long term maintainability.
Most casual users live with these issues, many move to mac, few move to linux. Victims of corporate IT like me must justify the budget to avoid the standard laptop and get the overpriced piece of extremely powerful hardware to have a daily experience slightly better than a raspberry pi running on respbian. Because outlook…
I am using a Netbook from 2009, Atom N570 1666Mhz, 2Gbyte RAM, 120GByte SSD. It is 550 gramm light, is so small it fits into the interior pocket of my jacket, runs eight hours on battery. And everything runs okeyish on it except maybe Youtube-Videos inside Firefox. So I set Firefox to start Youtube-Videos in VLC. Now I can even watch Youtube on my rusty old Netbook.
Worst problem: 32Bit support is running thin nowadays. It could run 64Bit but on that old system that actually costs quite some performance.
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Or using any legacy hardware such as the playstation eyetoy camera, a usb keyboard with a built in piano keyboard, some old random TV tuner card
Then there’s the hardware which windows only ever had 32bit drivers for, meaning even if you find the drivers on some obscure dodgy site they’ll never work.
Then there’s the whole bs of windows not allowing unsigned drivers.
None of these issues on Linux
Maybe because that’s a non issue for 99.9%+ of the population?
Seriously. “I wasn’t able to flash a microcontroller on windows”. That’s a normal use case.
I install Windows, everything works, I install PopOS, everything works. So yeah, an equal amount of time.
I have spent very little time worrying about drivers on either.
On windows geforce came preinstalled and I just updated it occasionally when something didn’t work
On NixOS I add one line to my config file and it handles Nvidia drivers for me and updates with the rest of my packages
Meanwhile, Windows in 2023: “oh, you plugged the same flash drive into a different USB port? Better reinstall a new set of drivers!”
"Let me search for a solution
…
…
…
No solution found"
Has the annoying “search for a solution” window ever found a solution?
Yes for stupid stuff like turning off the network device, to cut access to the internet. Windows finds by itself that the network device is disconnected and reconnects it by itself. Granted it’s not much, but it’s as complicated to find that menu than to run that utility.
Has the annoying “search for a solution” window ever found a solution?
Actually yes. In W7, at least, anytime sound wasn’t doing what it should have the “search for solution” button would fix it right up. The first time it gave and performed a solution and worked I was dumbfounded.
Never had that happen since… XP at least? It’s been too long for me to recall 95 and 98…
2003*
Never had my PC (win10: 2016-2022 and win11: 2023-now) install a driver for a USB stick ever.
Even some external devices are painless.
And I see plenty of PCs in my job.Edit: Win7 on the other hand…
I see it regularly with Win10, and I also see plenty of PCs in my job.
huh every time I plug my Logitech receiver in a different port I get a notification about a driver installation, fortunately it’s almost instant on my new pc but it’s still weird that we need that in 2023
I once was fixing someones computer booting with Bluescreen, because Windows 7 thought it found newer drivers for USB 3.1, and those newer were causing BSOD
I still have it from time to time that Windows has to install a driver for something benign like a thumb drive. Not always, though. And yes, the driver is fixed to the physical port. Using a different port reinstalls the same driver again.
Experienced this exact behavior on Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10 and Windows 11.
I’ve seen this so often on Windows Vista, and I’ve never seen it on Windows 10.
Granted, I’ve switched USBs in the meantime, so maybe it’s just the USB?
So many Lemmy users are going to feel personally attacked seeing this lol
I don’t feel attacked just confused
Drivers are included in the Kernel on linux.
Windows on the other hand… let’s just say it can’t handle printers very well
If there exists a hell, especially built for IT, it’s filled with printers.
Printers in general are the devil regardless of OS.
Nah, my HP P2035 is working great for 7 years straight. I just plug the USB into any Linux or Windows PC, or even through a dongle into my Android phone, I press “Print”, and the thing just prints!
From what I’ve heard, it seems most laser printers are awesome. And get yourself a Brother, is what people say on the Internet.
nVidia has entered the chat
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I’ve just been using Windows for work stuff now and then for over two decades now - so I just have the install scripted so I can just deploy it from scratch whenever I need it, and throw it away afterwards. Before we had multicore CPUs making emulation not annoying I had a sun workstation with a SunPCI card for that.
The one constant over all windows versions is it running into some driver issues for stupid reasons. Now with 11 its the signed drivers - and while you can do exceptions for development I never got unsigned graphics drivers to work.
Also, Windows on ARM is horrible - something as simple as a usb serial adapter doesn’t work because there just are no ARM drivers.
How do you recognize a Linux user?
You don’t. They’ll tell you at the first opportunity.
Go to hp website and download crapware thats gonna search for drivers for you. Make sure to install symantics bullshit, amd catalyst bullshit, hp battery bullshit and other useless crap too.
Meanwhile linux boots to a perfectly running computer first time with no icons in the tray.
You forgot whan the upgrade of the drivers and bloatware goes wrong on windows… What a great experience of “simplicity”
It seems like alottaaaaaa people on lemmy specifically haven’t used windows in the past several years. Built in AV is pretty much king on windows. Almost all drivers auto install even Nvidia albeit not the latest nvidia sometimes. Ten has built in battery options. You’re speaking about prebuilts and trying to spin the narrative. Windows 10 is a great OS, it’s hilarious how people attempt to pretend it’s not.
I installed Windows (both 10 & 11) last month on separate occasions, it took nearly 45m for it to install (with both 10 & 11), on top of that Windows 11 fucked up the first time around & I had to do it again. All to just update the BIOS because HP sucks.
When a Linux distro like Linux Mint installs in 5m-10m flat on the same exact device, first time around ever time.
Linux doesn’t need AV software, “security by design” is a key principle of Linux, and I don’t even think Windows itself actually “needs” AV software. It’s called common sense.
Automatically installing drivers won’t work if your WiFi card is unsupported out of the box like others have mentioned, especially with Windows 11 where you need internet to even install it the official “Microsoft way”. While Linux has all such supported drivers built-in and can provide support for these devices long past their EOL on Windows.
Nvidia drivers will auto install on Linux distros such as Mint too.Windows 10 is a great OS, it’s hilarious how people attempt to pretend it’s not.
Nobody said it wasn’t, his comment comes off more as shitting on HP than Windows; we just don’t ignore it’s downside when looking at the whole picture.
Also Windows 11 is arguably worse than Windows 10.Each OS has pros & cons and it’s important to look at each closely without assuming someone else is in fairyland because they chose a different OS then you, if you’re not careful you may find yourself in the very fairyland you’re accusing others of being in.
You forgot the part where you have to look up what to write in the terminal whenever you want to do something, but I forgive you, it’s easy to forget something you need to do daily.
You probably never used Linux. Or you used it 20 years ago.
Last time was… Oh… 4 months ago, before my RPi was put in storage?
RPI is ARM not X86_64.
You really think that’s a proper equivalent?
Because it’s not, it’s not even the same at the terminal level because you’re missing quite a number of select tools that aren’t cross-compiled (yet).Try Windows on ARM and compare it to the x86 version.
Not to mention both Linux and MacOS are way more developed on ARM than Windows is.
MacOS being the best ofc, thanks to the compatibility layer.I believe your judging Linux too harshly based on an uneven playing ground.
Don’t hurt your back with that goalpost my man!
Don’t hurt yourself trying to comprehend the difference between ARM & x86_64 architecture my man!
Deadass, I challenge you to install Windows on that Raspberry Pie, actually use it for a week, film the whole thing and upload a video on “just how amazing and usable Windows on ARM is compared to it’s X86 version” & seriously mean it. If you can do that, only then will your obvious troll energy turn into anything real. Fuck it, if you manage to install steam on Windows 11 ARM that’d be enough.
I’ve been there, done that. ಠ_ಠ
You realise the comment I was replying to was “I bet you never used Linux or you used it 20 years ago” and I simply replied to that and you’re the one who decided to shift the conversation to talk about ARM vs x86/64 and their compatibility with other OS… Right? You realize you derailed the conversation?
RIGHT?
If you have to do that to install anything, it’s either always your package manager or something that can be copy-pasted from the included installation guide.
You don’t even need the terminal in most cases. You have GUIs. Simple ones.
I’d rather have to type a line than struggle with installing 10 pieces of unnecessary bloatware individually
You take the mouse and do clicky clicky. Luckily theres usually one control panel on linux in contrast to three more and more legacy versions in windows where you need to go three levels deep in order to change the local ip address.
I literally click one button and it starts the entire automated update process. The only interruption is asking for a password
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Imagine thinking the terminal is something to be forced into.
On the other hand, it takes only four letters and hitting enter for me to update everything installed on my pc so not that hard to memorize a few commands.
First off, you really don’t need the terminal if you choose to avoid it. You can get by just fine with a GUI package manager included in the “user-friendly” Linux distros; which is essentially a graphical app store that handles all installs, uninstalls, updates & system updates for you with a point and click.
Second :
Tab key, Auto completion, command cycling, command highlighting, man pages, TLDR pages, and so on.
There’s no; absolutely 0, zippo, nada; reason you should, need, or want to remember individual commands or how to use them when the previously mentioned exist.
“I hate searching for drivers”
???
Of all the Linux nitpicks, you chose the one wrong answer.
Linux is way better with automatically installing drivers than Windows. Unless you’re using Nvidia, it’s literally in the kernel.
Linux has the issue of lacking in enterprise media software like Microsoft Office and Adobe Products. The former of which has long since become a non-issue. Adobe however persists. And some games will never run so long as the devs hold them hostage on anti-proton anticheat varients.
And most people use Nvidia. Don’t act like it’s a small number.
I don’t agree. I had lots of issues with printers, scanners, cameras, fingerprintreader, styluses. Yes, regular hardware, no issue, peripherals? Different story.
I know this is an issue from the manufacturers, but it’s still an issue.
I hate searching for drivers too!
I have never even thought about drivers let alone search for them in Linux. Everything just works out of the box.
The only exception was when I wanted to try a different version of an NVIDIA driver. Ironically the one that worked best was the one that came with Ubuntu and was installed by clicking a checkbox to use proprietary drivers over open source
I couldn’t get Bluetooth to work reliably. Never thought something as simple as a Bluetooth headset would give me such problems.
Yeah, you gotta look for Bluetooth receivers that have proper support. Some laptop receivers won’t work correctly - its only a select few receivers that actually have reliable drivers.
I myself use a Xbox one x|s controller wirelessly using the xpadneo driver. My first issue was the fact that the first USB Bluetooth receiver I bought didn’t work - turns out that certain Bluetooth receiver models you can buy from eBay/Amazon are often bootlegs of other models, and these bootlegs are just different enough that you have to modify the kernel to adjust for the quirks.
Given that USB Bluetooth receivers are cheap, (was like $20 Aussie dollars) I just bought another one and that one actually did work, instead of working out how to modify the driver.
Then I found that Xbox one controllers have this weird quirk due to the BTLE authentication system it has that results in it unable to stay permanently connected - it would constantly loop between connected and disconnected, at first I tried every method for getting it to work, and the only one that worked was that I had to attach my USB receiver to a windows VM, pair it, go into the windows registry to grab the auth key, and then implant it in the Linux Bluetooth configuration. Only then did it work flawlessly.
Problem is it’s a lot of fucking effort for a layman to attempt to work out and setup. And you also have to have either a windows machine, or a windows VM to connect the receiver you plan to use with the controller into.
But once you do it, the controller will always work on the PC, with that receiver. And you never need to worry about it untill you decide to reinstall linux- but in that case you just copy the same key across Linux installs.
Note: I don’t dual boot, but sometimes the dual boot method is the only way to get things to work Here’s the archwiki article I used to work out how to do it, only I used a windows VM instead of a second windows partition.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/bluetooth
Here’s a list of good and bad dongles from the xpadneo Bluetooth page:
Bluetooth is anything but simple. It’s a hackjob upon hackjob of hackjobs. While it’s true that linux implementation is also a bit of a hack, I remember the constant headache I had when all my peripherals were on bluetooth, and the pain of switching them all between windows PC and android phone. Never again, I’ll take the wires instead, thanks
Huh, for me bluetooth headsets are the one kind of peripheral that work better on Linux than windows.
You must have the absolute most common computer setup ever.
It mostly works out of the box. Go ahead and search for a few laptop models on arch wiki and you will discover that quite a few of them have features that need manual fixing (regardless of distro) and in some cases is unfixable.
Nothing is truly unfixable, it just might require kernel modding that no one has done before.
This seems very niche for L/memes !
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This is the realest thing I’ve ever realed in my whole reality
Real
I just didn’t like the complexity to get in house game streaming to work. Moonlight/sunshine should work. But I also wanna be able to just remote my entire desktop. Do much easier on windows still.
Based dad!
Edit: daughter bad!!
But… carefully skimming through pages of drivers was the best part of installing older versions of Windows.
The newer ones too. Online Microsoft drivers are not always the ones you actually want to run.
I’ve only seen that happen with AMD cards from an 8yo laptop, where the Microsoft provided driver somehow lacked OpenGL support. And my desktop’s sound driver, where only the older driver supports my setup. But those are the only two cases that come to mind since Win8 came out
