I’m getting the impression from Lemmy that there’s an overrepresentation of the particular demographic of comfortable middle-aged bookish software engineers who live in the US or Canada.
What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to “put you up against the wall” and then asks if you “know what that means, you fucking lib”?
I mean, I’m a demsoc, and of the last 20 death threats I have received in my life, 15 came from people who identify as Communist-Leninist. PLEASE give me a better word for them.
What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to “put you up against the wall” and then asks if you “know what that means, you fucking lib”?
Full disclosure, as a leftist I avoid those far-right areas like the plague. I’m quite certain I would receive more far-right death threats if I did not.
And I bet you’re fun at parties. Please oh great psychic, tell me more about myself?
And actually, I do know the difference between demsoc and socdem. The formal definition for Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.” That we are constantly painted as “filthy liberal” for wanting to respect the will of the majority is a disappointing and disgusting lie. And the ONLY people who accuse socdems of being fake leftists? TANKIES. Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.
The only way I’m not a leftist is if your version of leftism says “fuck people, freedom, or democracy”. In **your ** version of leftism, are you ok with being the 1% ruling by force against 99% who hate you? Think very carefully before replying to that.
Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.”
That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.
Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.
Speaking of succdems look how even in their mind palace they’re already dehumanizing anyone to the left of them. This helps when they cooperate with and enable fascist parties like they do every time in history. “Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D
Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.”
That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.
You should tell Webster they’re wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.
By their definitions, a Socdem’s insistence on using democracy at all costs is what differentiates between them and demsocs.
By why is it so important for you to insist everyone use your nonstandard definition of the terms? Also, your calling us “succdems” tells me exactly everything I need to know about your permission. If I’m not willing to murder people, I’m less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname.
“Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D
At this moment, you’re on the wrong side of the “First they came for” poem because you’re the one rejecting the Left.
You should tell Webster they’re wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.
Not to call the editors of those fine resources for elementary school aged children stupid or anything, but the adjective-noun pairs “social democrat” and “democratic socialist” literally imply within the terms themselves what these things are. A democratic socialist is a socialist who uses democratic means. It’s on the tin.
At this moment, you’re on the wrong side of the “First they came for” poem because you’re the one rejecting the Left.
Social democracy, noun a democratic welfare state that incorporates both capitalist and socialist practices
So, uh, capitalist, according to Webster. It is very funny to say “I totally know the difference between SocDem and DemSoc”, and then go on to not know.
However, I’ll write something up here. I’m from Denmark, a SocDem country. The current prime minister is Mette Frederiksen of the Social Democrat party. We are almost at SocDem as you can get.
This Social Democracy of Denmark formed around the time of the Soviet Union starting to get more influential, as the capitalists of Denmark found themselves needing to provide concessions to the working population, since an example of better worker rights was right next door. This was the birth of Social Democracy in Denmark. It expanded to have free healthcare, education, and a pretty strong social safety net. Now these things are of course nice for the people living in Denmark, however the second that the USSR fell, austerity started happening. I cannot remember a time in the last 20 years where the government wasn’t trying to “save money”. Now our healthcare system is crippled, education is getting defunded, and social safety is the same.
The only reason that the capitalist class of Denmark gave the concessions they did, was because the Soviet Union was next door. This is the reality. The capitalists will never give you anything, unless their security is threatened. To be a Social Democrat, and rejecting revolution as a concept, is to just play into what capitalists want. Social Democracy is just another way to preserve capitalism. It’s not a solution, it’s a band-aid for a bullet wound - might stop the bleeding for a bit, but it sure as hell will get infected if it’s not treated properly. At best it’s harm reduction, at worst it’s a detriment to the rights of the working class.
I’m not even getting into the exploitation necessary to uphold Social Democracy, and some of the other more icky elements of the ideology. I’m just giving you an example of what has happened to every single Social Democracy currently. I understand that it’s nice to think about, but I promise you that it’s not the solution to the problem.
The DemSocs at least have a problem with capitalism, however while their insistence on pacifism, and reform sounds very nice, it has literally not worked once in history. Not a single time. One of the only time it got close was with Allende in Chile, and the US fucking killed him, because you cannot fight empire with just words. I’m sorry, but that is the truth. You need to be able to fight counter-revolution, sabotage, sanctions, threats, war, espionage, etc. You cannot do this within the system that is funding all those things. You have to move away from capitalism entirely, suddenly, and forcefully, otherwise you will be crushed.
Call me a tankie if you want, I don’t care. But if you are going to call me this, at least tell me why. Tell me what part of what I just wrote is wrong.
God, you’re such a big dumb idiot of a lib. That’s the definition of a democratic socialist, not a social democrat - you can tell by the way one of the groups are call socialists and the others are called democrats.
Not only did you mix up your definitions, but you never actually managed to define democratic socialist - do you really know what the difference is if you can’t even remember to talk about one of them?
The answer, scrolling down your post history to where you called yourself a socdem, is no, you think they’re the exact same thing, because you don’t even have a surface level understanding of leftism. It only takes 5 minutes in leftist spaces to discover that anarchists, socialists, and communists of all flavour hate socdems for exactly your “no really, somehow we’ll manage to vote socialism in this time” attitude, but you’ve never spent a single minute in them, because you’re not a leftist.
My version of leftism is called Marxism and is based in historical reality and current material conditions. Your version is fantastical utopianism that’s convinced the elite are just going to give up the reigns any day now.
Death threats are an inappropriate and disproportiate response but have you considered that it is because you’re more irritating to the left than you are to the right? Especially given how right wingers historically are massively more violent?
Oh fuck off lol. The biggest instance literally preemptively removedd from everyone left of Bernie Sanders. Go back to reddit if you’re afraid of getting called out for being politically illiterate.
I’m guessing it dropped the F and rearranged the rest into the R slur. I can’t think of any other word with most of those letters, and it is a word otuside of the slur context, a verb meaning “to slow down”
Okay so I followed the first part, you want Russians dead and all that, it’s the thing rn. But you realize saying “launch the nukes” is exactly the same thing as “death to America” but with more steps, right?
What can I say, I want to actually do the job I trained for sometimes. Besides, the way the qoeld is going makes me less and less hesitant to actually flip the toggle switch when the order comes. Maybe that’s the point.
I’m a demsoc. I want to respect Communism more, but I never get death threats from liberals and do occasionally get death threats from Tankies.
It sucks because I feel they’d make a good ally to compromise with if they weren’t hoping to have me executed for not supporting an authoritarian seizure of power.
Well, i can’t speak to your experience but I’m a commie who doesn’t dig a forced central planning authority. Or death threats even!
Well that’s a breath of fresh air. That’s very different from what I’ve seen. I do have to point out what I said elsewhere, that I feel Communists have a responsibility to speak against violent communism, the same way “good cops” can only be good if they speak out against bad cops. (I know how most Communists feel about police, but at least I hope you can appreciate the intent of the parallel)
For my part i get called a “traitor” and such by libs often, simply for criticizing the DNC et al.
I think using the word “traitor” in a situation like that is terrible. I do take it personally if someone treats the DNC as “just as bad as Trump” after he managed to cause an unprecedented amount of devastation between his immigration policies, “pay me” COVID handling, and open hatred of marginalized groups and “great people on both sides” support for groups like the KKK… But as much as I am disappointed when people put even a moderate like Biden in the same boat as him, I wouldn’t use the word “traitor”.
But your point stands, no death threats.
I would love if I met more Communists who are more willing to have constructive conversation with the other Leftist groups, instead of the ones that group all of us in a wide-net neoliberal basket that includes everyone from Bernie Sanders to Adolf Hitler. So, thank you :)
You have my sympathy. Even when I was actively involved with pro-LGBTQ movements, there were people marching for rights that that didn’t respect bisexuals.
By the silent downvote I take it that you think getting so many death threats is normal and not possibly linked to being an extremely weird person who argues with perhaps even weirder people
Do you ever think maybe it’s weird that you get many death threats? I think have ever had one in my life and I’ve conversed with many many mentally… unhealthy people
I’m a Social Democrat, who used to be a Democratic Socialist. The Right sees me as a Communist and McCarthyism kicks in. Did you hear about the “Physical Removal” movement? A meme-like movement about giving the Left helicopter rides to the middle of the ocean. I lived in a farm town where 40% of the voters were overcompensating for the Right not being able to win a rural area by being very outspoken anti-left.
And then, the Left. When I considered myself to be a demsoc, I tried to hang out in LSC on reddit. Not sure if you know it, but they eventually got banned for all the death threats coming out of there. There is an attitude around some percent of Communists that non-Communist lives don’t matter. They might be a minority, but they’re outspoken.
That was what got me to realize the flaw in being a demsoc, and I shifted laterally (NOT to the Right as several people like to pretend) to Social Democrat. Then I got more death threats because Communists have a hard-on of insisting Socdems are literally the same category as fascists.
I DO think it’s weird that I’ve gotten and get death threats over my views, and I understand why so many people my age have given up having any views at all and just become “I just vote a party and go about my day” folks that are part of the problem.
I’m getting the impression from Lemmy that there’s an overrepresentation of the particular demographic of comfortable middle-aged bookish software engineers who live in the US or Canada.
It’s reddit rejects so what do you think
That seems to be like 95% of both reddit’s and lemmy’s (or some other federated instances’) user-bases.
On the other hand there’s also an overrepresentation of tankies. I don’t think those are the same people.
“Tankie” is to liberals as “woke” is to conservative liberals and fascists.
What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to “put you up against the wall” and then asks if you “know what that means, you fucking lib”?
I mean, I’m a demsoc, and of the last 20 death threats I have received in my life, 15 came from people who identify as Communist-Leninist. PLEASE give me a better word for them.
Based
How many leftists do you have to execute to earn your colors?
I see no leftist here
Oh yeah!? Well I’ve received thousands, no, millions of death threats!
Who are you people?
Full disclosure, as a leftist I avoid those far-right areas like the plague. I’m quite certain I would receive more far-right death threats if I did not.
so you admit that you get mostly leftist death threats because you avoid groups that would send more?
Tankies don’t get death threats from other tankies? I’m shocked!
no but trans people get death threats from “anti-tankies”
Can confirm
You sound like a vooshite when you talk in this childish way, aren’t you embarrassed
Communist
How many leftists do you have to execute to earn your colors?
None, just liberals willing to go along to get along with fascists. Which you are.
You don’t know the difference between a demsoc and a socdem. You’re not any kind of socialist, just a lib who likes the idea of being seen as leftist.
And I bet you’re fun at parties. Please oh great psychic, tell me more about myself?
And actually, I do know the difference between demsoc and socdem. The formal definition for Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.” That we are constantly painted as “filthy liberal” for wanting to respect the will of the majority is a disappointing and disgusting lie. And the ONLY people who accuse socdems of being fake leftists? TANKIES. Who are not, by any meaningful definition, more left than those of us with a soul.
The only way I’m not a leftist is if your version of leftism says “fuck people, freedom, or democracy”. In **your ** version of leftism, are you ok with being the 1% ruling by force against 99% who hate you? Think very carefully before replying to that.
That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.
Speaking of succdems look how even in their mind palace they’re already dehumanizing anyone to the left of them. This helps when they cooperate with and enable fascist parties like they do every time in history. “Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D
You should tell Webster they’re wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.
By their definitions, a Socdem’s insistence on using democracy at all costs is what differentiates between them and demsocs.
By why is it so important for you to insist everyone use your nonstandard definition of the terms? Also, your calling us “succdems” tells me exactly everything I need to know about your permission. If I’m not willing to murder people, I’m less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname.
At this moment, you’re on the wrong side of the “First they came for” poem because you’re the one rejecting the Left.
Not to call the editors of those fine resources for elementary school aged children stupid or anything, but the adjective-noun pairs “social democrat” and “democratic socialist” literally imply within the terms themselves what these things are. A democratic socialist is a socialist who uses democratic means. It’s on the tin.
This has to be a bit
Merriam-Webster:
So, uh, capitalist, according to Webster. It is very funny to say “I totally know the difference between SocDem and DemSoc”, and then go on to not know.
However, I’ll write something up here. I’m from Denmark, a SocDem country. The current prime minister is Mette Frederiksen of the Social Democrat party. We are almost at SocDem as you can get.
This Social Democracy of Denmark formed around the time of the Soviet Union starting to get more influential, as the capitalists of Denmark found themselves needing to provide concessions to the working population, since an example of better worker rights was right next door. This was the birth of Social Democracy in Denmark. It expanded to have free healthcare, education, and a pretty strong social safety net. Now these things are of course nice for the people living in Denmark, however the second that the USSR fell, austerity started happening. I cannot remember a time in the last 20 years where the government wasn’t trying to “save money”. Now our healthcare system is crippled, education is getting defunded, and social safety is the same.
The only reason that the capitalist class of Denmark gave the concessions they did, was because the Soviet Union was next door. This is the reality. The capitalists will never give you anything, unless their security is threatened. To be a Social Democrat, and rejecting revolution as a concept, is to just play into what capitalists want. Social Democracy is just another way to preserve capitalism. It’s not a solution, it’s a band-aid for a bullet wound - might stop the bleeding for a bit, but it sure as hell will get infected if it’s not treated properly. At best it’s harm reduction, at worst it’s a detriment to the rights of the working class.
I’m not even getting into the exploitation necessary to uphold Social Democracy, and some of the other more icky elements of the ideology. I’m just giving you an example of what has happened to every single Social Democracy currently. I understand that it’s nice to think about, but I promise you that it’s not the solution to the problem.
The DemSocs at least have a problem with capitalism, however while their insistence on pacifism, and reform sounds very nice, it has literally not worked once in history. Not a single time. One of the only time it got close was with Allende in Chile, and the US fucking killed him, because you cannot fight empire with just words. I’m sorry, but that is the truth. You need to be able to fight counter-revolution, sabotage, sanctions, threats, war, espionage, etc. You cannot do this within the system that is funding all those things. You have to move away from capitalism entirely, suddenly, and forcefully, otherwise you will be crushed.
Call me a tankie if you want, I don’t care. But if you are going to call me this, at least tell me why. Tell me what part of what I just wrote is wrong.
did you think this one through at all? like, give it even a seconds thought?
God, you’re such a big dumb idiot of a lib. That’s the definition of a democratic socialist, not a social democrat - you can tell by the way one of the groups are call socialists and the others are called democrats. Not only did you mix up your definitions, but you never actually managed to define democratic socialist - do you really know what the difference is if you can’t even remember to talk about one of them? The answer, scrolling down your post history to where you called yourself a socdem, is no, you think they’re the exact same thing, because you don’t even have a surface level understanding of leftism. It only takes 5 minutes in leftist spaces to discover that anarchists, socialists, and communists of all flavour hate socdems for exactly your “no really, somehow we’ll manage to vote socialism in this time” attitude, but you’ve never spent a single minute in them, because you’re not a leftist.
My version of leftism is called Marxism and is based in historical reality and current material conditions. Your version is fantastical utopianism that’s convinced the elite are just going to give up the reigns any day now.
Death threats are an inappropriate and disproportiate response but have you considered that it is because you’re more irritating to the left than you are to the right? Especially given how right wingers historically are massively more violent?
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Oh fuck off lol. The biggest instance literally preemptively removedd from everyone left of Bernie Sanders. Go back to reddit if you’re afraid of getting called out for being politically illiterate.
I’m guessing your autocorrect didn’t like the word “defederated” and turned it into a word that’s a slur if you don’t include the ‘d’ at the end? lol
also I agree with your comment.
edit- Who wouldn’t want to be called an outfox?
Lol yeah I was on my way back from my lunch break when I typed that no clue what it autocorrected too
I’m guessing it dropped the F and rearranged the rest into the R slur. I can’t think of any other word with most of those letters, and it is a word otuside of the slur context, a verb meaning “to slow down”
Defederate but with a g for the f and a n for the d is also filtered iirc.
yep that was probably it lol
Are the tankies in the room with us right now sweetie?
Hell yeah we are
No, they’re distributed. And federated.
I’m coming to put you in the gulag and seize your property
there’s no such thing as a tankie, the word literally has no meaning
Death to America
Death to all tankies, hooyah America, KILL THE BEAR. Ready to set 1SQ for strategic nuclear launch! Fuck the Kremlin, and fuck the CCP!
Okay so I followed the first part, you want Russians dead and all that, it’s the thing rn. But you realize saying “launch the nukes” is exactly the same thing as “death to America” but with more steps, right?
What can I say, I want to actually do the job I trained for sometimes. Besides, the way the qoeld is going makes me less and less hesitant to actually flip the toggle switch when the order comes. Maybe that’s the point.
get help please
Did you mean communists? Common westerner mistake
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You’ve been lied to. All are treated as equally too far left, hence all commieș are tąnkies.
“Everyone to the left of me isn’t being actively purged from the platform and it’s not to my tastes”
Fucking leave then
Lol, that’s not what they said at all. Somebody seems a little defensive.
Lmao
What’s a tankie?
Frankly i don’t think there’s nearly enough tankies to offset the neolibs but i have a feeling I’m in the minority. Eh! Fun times we’re in
I’m a demsoc. I want to respect Communism more, but I never get death threats from liberals and do occasionally get death threats from Tankies.
It sucks because I feel they’d make a good ally to compromise with if they weren’t hoping to have me executed for not supporting an authoritarian seizure of power.
Well, i can’t speak to your experience but I’m a commie who doesn’t dig a forced central planning authority. Or death threats even!
For my part i get called a “traitor” and such by libs often, simply for criticizing the DNC et al.
But your point stands, no death threats.
Well that’s a breath of fresh air. That’s very different from what I’ve seen. I do have to point out what I said elsewhere, that I feel Communists have a responsibility to speak against violent communism, the same way “good cops” can only be good if they speak out against bad cops. (I know how most Communists feel about police, but at least I hope you can appreciate the intent of the parallel)
I think using the word “traitor” in a situation like that is terrible. I do take it personally if someone treats the DNC as “just as bad as Trump” after he managed to cause an unprecedented amount of devastation between his immigration policies, “pay me” COVID handling, and open hatred of marginalized groups and “great people on both sides” support for groups like the KKK… But as much as I am disappointed when people put even a moderate like Biden in the same boat as him, I wouldn’t use the word “traitor”.
I would love if I met more Communists who are more willing to have constructive conversation with the other Leftist groups, instead of the ones that group all of us in a wide-net neoliberal basket that includes everyone from Bernie Sanders to Adolf Hitler. So, thank you :)
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You have my sympathy. Even when I was actively involved with pro-LGBTQ movements, there were people marching for rights that that didn’t respect bisexuals.
deleted by creator
By the silent downvote I take it that you think getting so many death threats is normal and not possibly linked to being an extremely weird person who argues with perhaps even weirder people
Which “silent downvote” are you talking about?
And how exactly did you conclude I’m a “weird person” in this scenario? Obviously I’m arguing with weirder people, we’re talking about tankies.
EDIT: Just looked through your post history and cannot seem to find any I downvoted.
Do you ever think maybe it’s weird that you get many death threats? I think have ever had one in my life and I’ve conversed with many many mentally… unhealthy people
I’m a Social Democrat, who used to be a Democratic Socialist. The Right sees me as a Communist and McCarthyism kicks in. Did you hear about the “Physical Removal” movement? A meme-like movement about giving the Left helicopter rides to the middle of the ocean. I lived in a farm town where 40% of the voters were overcompensating for the Right not being able to win a rural area by being very outspoken anti-left.
And then, the Left. When I considered myself to be a demsoc, I tried to hang out in LSC on reddit. Not sure if you know it, but they eventually got banned for all the death threats coming out of there. There is an attitude around some percent of Communists that non-Communist lives don’t matter. They might be a minority, but they’re outspoken.
That was what got me to realize the flaw in being a demsoc, and I shifted laterally (NOT to the Right as several people like to pretend) to Social Democrat. Then I got more death threats because Communists have a hard-on of insisting Socdems are literally the same category as fascists.
I DO think it’s weird that I’ve gotten and get death threats over my views, and I understand why so many people my age have given up having any views at all and just become “I just vote a party and go about my day” folks that are part of the problem.