President Joe Biden says there's an extremist movement that doesn't share the basic beliefs of democracy.

President Joe Biden is arguing that “there is something dangerous happening in America” as he revives his warnings that Donald Trump and his allies represent an existential threat to the country’s democratic institutions.

“There is an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs of our democracy. The MAGA movement,” Biden says in excerpts of the speech Thursday in Arizona, released in advance by the White House, referring Trump’s Make America Great Again slogan.

Although voting in the 2024 Republican primary doesn’t begin for months, Biden’s focus reflects Trump’s status as the undisputed frontrunner for his party’s nomination despite facing four indictments, two of them related to his attempts to overturn Biden’s victory in the 2020 election.

  • oneiros@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    11·
    1 year ago

    Does voting third party or abstaining somehow increase the count of votes for Republicans?

    No, I’m only describing the spoiler effect here.

    Would this be more or less irrational than actively perpetuating the problems with a party and its candidates by guaranteeing them your vote for no reason other than they’re not as bad as a different party?

    It would be more irrational, because if the “shoot me in the leg, I guess” party loses, everyone dies, and nobody gets to have opinions about anything ever again.

    I think we can both agree that voting to avoid bad outcomes rather than to select good ones is fucked.

    • Jeremy [Iowa]English
      1·
      1 year ago

      No, I’m only describing the spoiler effect here.

      Then the question still applies: in what way would a spoiler increase the count of either establishment candidate? My understanding of basic math is that it cannot.

      It would be more irrational, because if the “shoot me in the leg, I guess” party loses, everyone dies, and nobody gets to have opinions about anything ever again.

      That’s certainly one opinion on the matter… coincidentally one perfectly aligned with a partisan propaganda viewpoint and, thus far, is nothing but alarmist hyperbole.

      I think we can both agree that voting to avoid bad outcomes rather than to select good ones is fucked.

      We sure can.

      • oneiros@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        11·
        1 year ago

        Then the question still applies: in what way would a spoiler increase the count of either establishment candidate? My understanding of basic math is that it cannot.

        Correct, and to claim otherwise would be absurd. Have I done that? The absolute count of votes is immaterial. Elections are decided by the proportion of votes cast for each candidate. That’s what admits the spoiler effect. Thanks, FPTP.

        That’s certainly one opinion on the matter… coincidentally one perfectly aligned with a partisan propaganda viewpoint and, thus far, is nothing but alarmist hyperbole.

        It’s no coincidence. This is the means by which the establishment perpetuates itself. Doesn’t mean both parties are the same.

        I’m tapping out after this, but I appreciated the discussion. Have a great weekend.

        • Jeremy [Iowa]English
          1·
          1 year ago

          Elections are decided by the proportion of votes cast for each candidate. That’s what admits the spoiler effect. Thanks, FPTP.

          Sure, let’s play that game.

          Candidate A: 50/100 Candidate B: 50/100 Candidate C: 0/100

          If one abstains, there is no impact: Either candidate has 50/100 = 50%.

          If one votes Candidate C, there is no impact: Candidate A and Candidate B are now both at 50/101 = 49.5%.

          There is no spoiler.

          It’s no coincidence. This is the means by which the establishment perpetuates itself. Doesn’t mean both parties are the same.

          Sure, and I’m not saying both parties are the same.

          I’m saying one isn’t obligated to vote for Party A for them merely being less awful than Party B - that doing so perpetuates the awfulness of either party; that trying to convince voters to do so is to perpetuate the awfulness of a given party.

          You, too.