cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/830212

The absolutely beautiful reason that I can tell that they still aren’t agreeing to Fords concessions is because they in solidarity with new workers that don’t even exist yet, are demanding that Fords new battery plants they are building be placed under the same labor agreement they are fighting for.

“The UAW, according to Ford officials, has taken a hard line on requiring the company’s four new battery plants be placed under the terms of the labor agreement.”

  • zepheriths@lemmy.world
    94·
    1 year ago

    That’s a great idea in an economy with low unemployment let’s fire everyone, surely the workers will be easily replaced.

    • RedditWanderer@lemmy.world
      64·
      1 year ago

      And surely there won’t be a drastic drop in quality when they hire too few workers who have no experience. This will mean delays and recalls on purchases.

      • Jaysyn@kbin.social
        251·
        1 year ago

        Didn’t the last company that tried this have to shut down factories due to scabs wrecking it thru lack of training?

        EDIT: Yep, it was Kellog’s & they totally lost that battle.

        • glimse@lemmy.world
          181·
          1 year ago

          Would be a shame if some “scabs” “without training” “accidentally” destroyed the factory

          • TinyPizza@kbin.social
            101·
            1 year ago

            Sometimes I can be so “clumsy” with my bags of sand and metal filings around expensive machinery. Can’t break tradition though. Gotta always have my bags of lucky dust.

      • Magrath@lemmy.ca
        3·
        1 year ago

        Yeah. If this goes through don’t even touch a Ford vehicle from the years 2024-2026 at least. Will be full of defects.

      • bluGill@kbin.social
        31·
        1 year ago

        I don’t know how Ford does things, but if your process is well documented and controlled new workers can produce just as good a quality. The biggest problem should be just how slow. I can put new wipers on a car - or whatever it is each person is doing, but someone with experience can do things much faster.

        • Pseu@kbin.social
          9·
          1 year ago

          And if you rush them, then things go wrong in a hurry. It doesn’t matter how much documentation you have if the operator skips steps or plain old makes a mistake.

          I’ve personally blown up thousands of dollars in tooling making stupid mistakes when I was a junior machinist being told we had deadlines to meet. I’ve seen other guys forget to probe a work offset and crash the machine so badly it needs a spindle rebuild. A press operator can wreck a $100,000 die set if they make even relatively easy mistakes, and if that happens to the wrong tool, it can completely shut down production for months for a repair or rebuild.

          If there’s a 1 in a million chance that any of those 10,000 employees makes a big, showstopping mistake on a given day, then after 100 days, there’s a 63% chance of that event happening.

          • bluGill@kbin.social
            11·
            1 year ago

            Correct, but not that the union people all has to learn things at some point. Ford has to train several hundred new people every year anyway.

      • jennwiththesea@lemmy.world
        1·
        1 year ago

        Seriously, this sounds like pure negligence. These are multi-thousand pound killing machines. How many safety lawsuits will come out of this?

  • AliasAKA@lemmy.worldEnglish
    93·
    1 year ago

    If Ford fires workers, that’s a no from me on purchasing any vehicles from them in the future.

    I’d rather pay a 2 thousand dollar premium on a new vehicle that’s union made than pay 2 thousand dollars less for a shoddy piece of crap made by inexperienced and overworked / underpaid workers.

    • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
      284·
      1 year ago

      I’d rather walk than ever buy another American vehicle anyhow, they’re fucking trash. Japanese for the rest of my life, no looking back at years wasted on American garbage.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
        14·
        1 year ago

        Ever since GM killed SAAB, I get Subaru. Admittedly, I currently own a Bolt, but the second Subaru makes an electric Impreza, I’m getting one.

      • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz
        5·
        1 year ago

        I’ve had a couple of both country’s vehicles over the years. Honestly, they’ve all been pretty good. I can certainly see myself boycotting American vehicles for the rest of my life depending on how this shakes out.

      • dirtbiker509@lemm.ee
        5·
        1 year ago

        Hate to break it to you but Japanese work culture and abuse is significantly worse than the US.

        • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
          62·
          1 year ago

          I can’t imagine how that has anything to do with what I’m saying. I need dependable reliable transportation, that doesn’t seem to be something American vehicle makers can make happen, but the Japanese seem more than happy to take up the slack. I hope everyone gets better workplace environments, but that’s unrelated.

    • Sunroc@lemmy.world
      14·
      1 year ago

      Seems logical, I wonder what percentage of people share that opinion. For instance I would in general trust a package with UPS more than Fed Ex.

      • AliasAKA@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        1 year ago

        Exactly, I strongly prefer UPS as a delivery service (I can’t tell you the last time I intentionally used fedex). I actually trust USPS more than fedex, frankly.

        • SokathHisEyesOpen@lemmy.mlEnglish
          4·
          1 year ago

          FedEx has messed up deliveries the last several times I’ve used them. Either things are broken, or they sneak up to the door and leave a notice that they missed you without ever ringing the bell and then run off. That last one is really weird. They’re already there, what’s the point of this? I’ve seen them on camera walk up, put the sticker on the door, and leave. No package in hand, no knock, and no doorbell ring. Why!

          • KrapKake@lemmy.world
            2·
            1 year ago

            Maybe its faster for them. Like they don’t want to wait for someone to get their pants and finally get to the door, or they assume no one is home and just want to get on with the next delivery. At the same time the fedex system shows that they made the visit to your home and that is good enough for their boss. I really don’t know but that’s my theory, perhaps a fedexer will enlighten us.

        • PolarisFx@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          2·
          1 year ago

          Wait… FedEx or FedEx Ground? Maybe it’s because I’m in Canada but I’ve never had a good experience with UPS or any of its drivers. While FedEx has been nothing but amazing.

          FedEx Ground however is a steaming pile of shit

    • vivadanang@lemm.eeEnglish
      12·
      1 year ago

      EV’s require fewer assembly steps. The unions want to transition losses on the assembly lines to new jobs at battery manufacturing ops the ev builders will make. EV builders don’t want to have union shops at every level.

      They’d rather dump the unnecessary people and hire non-union workers instead.

      Follow the money.

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
      32·
      1 year ago

      While I support your sentiment, non-union does not necessarily equal poorly made. It just means those products are more cheaply made by undercutting wages and benefits everywhere. Supporting union work is a monetary rising tide that lifts all boats, from the local economy, better health, to generational income that supports a better future for the families who get it.

  • Blackout@kbin.social
    74·
    1 year ago

    Ford: We got the cash but we’d rather shoot ourselves in the foot and cut off a leg. Those MBA jerks running the companies are morons.

    • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
      21·
      1 year ago

      I legitimately believe, in my heart of hearts, that people will business degrees more than anyone else have ruined this world.

    • toiletobserver@lemmy.world
      244·
      1 year ago

      Let me start by saying i agree with you. I’d like to add that nowhere in my academic journey through a state accredited business college did they teach us that the goal of business is to screw workers. That shit is taught by sociopaths to other sociopaths in the corporate world. Fuck em all.

      • jballs@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        111·
        1 year ago

        I dunno man, I had a management professor raise an argument that a publicly traded business had only one function, and that was to provide value to its shareholders. Anything else, such as charitable donations, could be considered stealing from its shareholders - unless it provided a return on investment (e.g. a charitable donation provided good PR which caused more people to buy your product).

        I don’t think the professor truly believed the argument he was making, but more presenting it as a “this is how many successful businesses operate and how they justify it”.

      • jelloeater - Ops Mgr@lemmy.worldEnglish
        31·
        1 year ago

        I’ll second this, from someone with a MBA as well. While it’s technically the end goal is to provide a return on investment to shareholders, if you’re a publicly traded company. There are also B corps as well nowadays, which seek to give back to the greater world. The problem with capitalism, is that, in theory, it acts like a parasite, when it SHOULD be acting like a symbiotic entity. Short term gains are never sustainable, big picture should be the top priority. Part of the reason why I love small business and non profits, they try and live in harmony with their neighbors, in theory.

    • Cheers@sh.itjust.works
      4·
      1 year ago

      Also sounds like a good way to piss off local government. Fire ~5k people per city? That’s probably pretty impactful for those cities.

  • MajorHavoc@lemmy.world
    32·
    1 year ago

    Watch me predict the future… “Consumer Reports cites high recall and defect incidence in 2025-2030 model Ford vehicles.”

  • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
    251·
    1 year ago

    It is illegal under federal law to fire workers for striking. Mass layoffs like this were likely already something they were planning and they’re just using the strike as an excuse to make it seem less like it’s just the naked corporate greed that it really is.

  • HuddaBudda@kbin.social
    251·
    1 year ago

    Bryce Currie, Ford’s vice president of manufacturing in the Americas, said the company anticipates nine of those 13 plants will have to lay off as many as 4,600 workers in total over the coming weeks, with the first layoffs happening in a matter of days.

    “I want to stress, this will be a prolonged impact. Even if the strike is short-lived, it will have a prolonged impact, because bringing a plant back up is much more intensive than putting it down,” Currie explained in an Oct. 12 media call.

    Kentucky Truck makes F-series Super Duty pickups as well as Ford Expedition SUVs and Lincoln Navigator SUVs. It generates $25 billion in annual revenue, or 16% of Ford’s annual global revenue, and produces a vehicle every 37 seconds.

    Sounds like the VP understands that this is going to cost them a large amount. Also sounds like he isn’t 100% on board with it, but time and actions will tell.

    I wouldn’t be either, There is no way they are going to be able to replace 5,000 auto workers easily. Anyone who has ever taking their car to a mechanic will know what I mean.

    • DarkGamer@kbin.social
      131·
      1 year ago

      The corpus would rather cut off its arm than provide it with enough bloodflow to keep it healthy.

    • cobra89@beehaw.org
      42·
      1 year ago

      Do you think all auto workers are mechanics? I’m all for the UAW fighting for their rights but it’s not like these positions are highly skilled. Are you aware of the whole premise of the production line and workers each only having 1 job to do for weeks or even months before moving to the next rotation?

      It will take time to train 5,000 workers sure, but it’s training that is done in a matter of a few days or less and they’re constantly changing roles on the line and learning new things anyway. The training for these positions is already highly streamlined and simple.

    • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
      2·
      1 year ago

      I wouldn’t be either, There is no way they are going to be able to replace 5,000 auto workers easily. Anyone who has ever taking their car to a mechanic will know what I mean.

      Wait 'til you see my IAM brothers making airplanes.

  • Revonult@lemmy.world
    121·
    1 year ago

    I support the protests and UAW but I don’t see in the article that suggests Ford is moving to fire these workers. Perhaps I missed it?

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
      21·
      1 year ago

      They’re not. They’re firing non-union workers in other plants up and downstream of this one, due to the lack of demand for those other plants’ outputs

      • Revonult@lemmy.world
        10·
        1 year ago

        Is this not the same article? I see them mentioning laying off 4.6k workers across all plants but not specifically this one. Its my understanding too these layoffs are non strikers because the plant cannot operate. I also thought there were somekind of penalties or contract stuff to prevent firing striking workers, I am assuming this is a protected strike. Just kinda seems like the post is misleading, esp since there is no mention about firing striking workers.

  • wombat [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    9·
    1 year ago

    the maoist uprising against the landlords was the largest and most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, and led to almost totally-equal redistribution of land among the peasantry

    • Jaysyn@kbin.social
      31·
      1 year ago

      I bought a Subaru after owning a half-dozen American vehicles and dealing with constant garbage that come with them.

      I can tell you, it’s quite likely I’ll never buy any other make after driving a Subaru for 10 years.

  • Kyden@lemmy.worldEnglish
    7·
    1 year ago

    Please forgive my ignorance here. I absolutely support folks fighting for better pay and benefits, but why on earth did they refuse this?

    The company’s Oct. 3 offer featured:

    • Product commitments for every UAW plant in America
    • No job losses due to electric vehicle battery plants
    • Profit sharing among all employees
    • A full ratification bonus
    • 26% pay increase for all temporary employees
    • Conversion of all temporary employees with at least three months of service to permanent status
    • More than 20% pay increase for permanent employees
    • Inflation protection in cost-of-living allowances
    • End to tiered pay so all employees can reach the top wage rate
    • A reduction (in half) of the time it takes to earn the top wage
    • Income protection for permanent employees
    • Increased 401(k) contributions for permanent employees
    • Up to five weeks paid vacation, an average of 17 paid holidays per year and two family days.

    Every single one of those bullet points sounds like a pretty massive win, even individually, then you combine them all together and it’s the best benefit plan I’ve ever even heard of in the US. Granted, I am not a benefits manager and never have been, so I suppose I don’t know what is generally available in the US. But many of those individual benefits are leagues above anything I’ve ever seen.

    EDIT: I read the article rather than the post. So I assume the above points are not being given to plants planning to be built?

    • Omega_Jimes@lemmy.ca
      6·
      1 year ago

      Yeah, near the end of the article they mention that the union won’t agree until the new battery plants will also be included in this CA.

  • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
    93·
    1 year ago

    I’ve already said fuck Ford as they made their vehicles harder to work on yourself. Fuck each and every auto company. We should be past electric vehicles and using magnetic propulsion, but they have to make sure their profits aren’t negatively affected.