Idealism, if Linux was going to take over innately it already would have

I don’t understand, you could use this argment against anything, just pick something that took off and imagine someone saying this before it did, why is Linux different?

History (let’s be honest it’s like a discord server if it doesn’t take off all at once it never will)

Why? Lots of things take off only after a long time. Why is Linux like a discord server? You don’t explain how you’re arriving at these conclusions

It’s inaccessible (terminals cannot replace everything. I’m talking to you if you say “bloat”)

No, terminals can’t replace everything, nor are we trying to make them do that. Linux has GUI applications and conventional desktop environments. I’m one of the ppl who’s constantly raging against bloat and I use apps like eog. Terminals are great but they are meant for a certain set of uses, not for everything

There’s only corporate funding, so they will appropriate it

I’m not sure what this statement even means, are you saying only corporate things get funded or Linux only gets funding from corporations? And what is ‘appropriation’ mean here? Corporations using Linux is not a problem

We tolerate people who don’t tolerate others (including the less tech-savvy)

Sure, there are bigots and toxic ppl in many Linux communites… just like there are in non-Linux communities. I’m not convinced that Linux communities have an especially high concentration of toxic ppl, especially since you specify “the less tech-savvy”. I don’t think there’s a widespread problem with how Linux ppl treat the less tech-savvy. I think a lot of ppl have this opinion because they do things like ask questions that are answered in the documentation, or send bug reports without any information, or act too demanding of maintainers or free software.

Useful link: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Microsoft has way too much power (money)

Yeah, I hate Microsoft too and I wish they had less power and money than they do. But this is just a despair argument. There’s no reason free software can’t win people over, especially with Microsoft going ham on anti-features in recent versions of Windows and more people becoming more critical of capitalism. Money lets them make products and software effectievly, but it can’t let them replicate the things that make free software special.

Few people remember RMS started copyleft as a political goal (too many people are uncomfortable challenging their beliefs, so they want Linux to be “apolitical”)

I don’t see what this has to do with the Linux desktop taking off. Yeah, copyleft is a great idea and to me it is a deeply ideological thing that I support, not just a praxis. But, as someone else said, letting people enjoy Linux apolitically is good because it expands the user base.

No one is doing the political organizing

What political organizing?

Copyleft is flawed and needs to be improved (here’s a template example https://thufie.lain.haus/NPL.html) [also mind you that there’s a need to prevent corporate appropriation]

Copyleft isn’t a magic solution to all problems, and maybe we could do better with different licenses… but that NPL seems like a terrible idea. First, I don’t think you can define terms like “tracking individuals” or “discriminate”/“hate speech” in a legally sound way (the given definition of Discriminate is absurdly over-broad, and the given definition of Hate Speech is both too open to interpretation, since it hinges on the word “hatred”, and too narrow, because of the word “solely”). But even if you could get around the definition issues, you shouldn’t just load a license with your entire ideology. The more stuff you add to the license, the fewer people will agree, and the harder it will be for your software to take off.

People worship RMS instead of realizing he alienates women, people with down syndrome, etc.

Do they? You can be in a lot of Linux communities for a long time without hearing about RMS, and lots of Linux users don’t even like him.

Idealism, if Linux was going to take over innately it already would have. 

• depends on where you are in the graph. It took over already except the desktop.

  History (let’s be honest it’s like a discord server if it doesn’t take off all at once it never will)

• Again linux is on sort of golden age of discovery if you really look back at the past.

  It’s inaccessible (terminals cannot replace everything. I’m talking to you if you say “bloat”)

• Agree. It improved a lot but there are things that need to change.

  There’s only corporate funding, so they will appropriate it.

• what?? If you mean profit from linux lots of businesses will disagree with you

  We tolerate people who don’t tolerate others (including the less tech-savvy)

• i don’t see the problem.

  Microsoft has way too much power (money).

• how is that a problem? Money can actually be the reason linux desktop will take off. Look at android.

  Few people remember RMS started copyleft as a political goal (too many people are uncomfortable challenging their beliefs, so they want Linux to be “apolitical”)

• apolitical is good for take off.

  No one is doing the political organizing

• this is not required for the take off.

  Copyleft is flawed and needs to be improved (here’s a template example https://thufie.lain.haus/NPL.html) [also mind you that there’s a need to prevent corporate appropriation]

• not related to take off of linux at all…

  People worship RMS instead of realizing he alienates women, people with down syndrome, etc.

• really dude?

Oh god what are you even talking about? Use Linux or not. What do you care if it takes off or not? I have no doubt that my family and non-tech friends could use a user friendly distro. Most don’t even use computers though as everything is done thru their phones these days it seems.

Linux is pretty popular tho

To be honest, most people don’t give a thought to the OS they use. They haven’t considered the ethics/politics. They’ve probably never even seen a Linux GUI. They bought a device with an OS preinstalled and, so long as it has the apps they want to use : that’s fine. Heck! many of them are still on Vista.

The inertia preventing change (for anything) is enormous (and even more so if you don’t really understand something - like tech) : fundamentally, we’re conservative, and lazy, (and frightened) as a species, and if something works… don’t mess with it.

I am cautiously optimistic for Linux though, because I can see a couple of catalysts for a sea-change.

Firstly Windows11 - which increasingly relies on an internet connection, and a log in. I think this will bar Micro$oft from poorer communities - especially since it requires new hardware. And I think it might make governments and businesses wonder what information Micro$oft are mining.

Secondly the tech trade war - China is one of the biggest producers, if not the biggest producer of electronics, and they constitute 20% of the market too… And they’re moving away from US proprietary systems : The electronics which are going to be coming out of China are going to have an Open Source OS.

You are not the only one who is cursed with arguments. 😅

• Nothing wrong with idealism, depends on how you define it in such regard. I say the idea of Linux was a success.
• Some distros tying to address your terminal argument there is btw LinuxFX and other Windows closes, which are mainly designed to imitate Windows or for Windows switcher.
• I think the Copyleft thing can be solved with AGPL and other licenses who are more designed to protect xyz, which depends on what you choose. Linux itself is fine here because I see it as community work, I do not see how lets say Microsoft can fake or buy people for their purposes, lots of people work in their free time on the OS or within the community e.g. documentation, forum help and so on. The NPL stuff you linked is just a bad idea in general.

Here is when you are wrong

• Money is not always a deciding factor for success.
• Most super-computers and statistically most devices already run some sort of Linux, even if its just Android or a IoT device because Windows works badly on IoT devices. There are benchmarks etc to support this. Desktop maybe overall - for now - a different story but more because other factors and support reasons, which can be addressed over time.
• There is not only corporate funding, you can get findings via independent contracts and deals, donations and startups. Open Collective is a nice platform some people use, Obs Studio and others to manage their income, or to let them manage by others.
• RMS does not represents the entire Linux community. I think not much oldschool people worship him nor is that an factor why the Desktop system will, according to you, never take off.
• I think Linux does tolerate all people, this is no argument at all. As mentioned there are lots of distros designed for beginners, the are well documented and well-discussed in forums.