The president’s comment that he has “no confidence” in the civilian death toll in Gaza provided by Palestinians incensed community leaders.

  • Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    There really are no winners here.

    Let’s be realistic. Hamas fucked around and found out. You don’t go around provoking a regional superpower with decades-old guns and improvised weapons. There was never a situation where Israel wasn’t going to go in and curb stomp them in response. Israel has always been open about this.

    But the response they gave is beyond inhumane. They’ve decided that the best course of action is to just “kill 'em all and let God sort it out”. The vast majority of their targets so far have been civilian targets, and they defend their actions by essentially saying that since they can’t tell the difference between Hamas and the civilians, they’re just going to mow down everybody. Hospitals have been bombed. Supplies have been all but cut off. Civilian vehicles targeted on video, with the IDF’s official response being barely more than “sucks to be them.” Thousands of civilians dead, and Israel’s response is to say “we’re just getting started” and advancing a ground attack.

    There is no justification for that response. None. If Israel had any chance of getting regional or global support for their actions, they pissed that away the second they thought bombing a hospital was a good idea. If they think that indiscriminately bombing civilian targets is going to magically stop their enemies from interfering, they thought wrong (as evidenced by the fighting along the Lebanese border). If anything, Israel just gave them the justification that they have been looking for and probably just made their own situation exponentially worse.

    At this point, I really do believe that Biden needs to withdraw all but humanitarian support from Israel. Helping to arm Israel while they commit genocide in real time isn’t going to help our position with allies in the middle east. And neither side are exactly saints here. The US should take this into consideration, withdraw military support for Israel, offer humanitarian aid to civilians in both Israel and Gaza, and say they no longer take any position on the conflict outside of protecting US interests.

    I would think it would take a hell of a lot to make a terrorist organization like Hamas look like the sympathetic victim. And while I’m not saying they are, Israel seems to be speedrunning their attempts to make them look like they are.

    • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Israel doesn’t need or want global support, because they know they’ve got the unwavering support of the only country that matters, the United States. Shit, our own government covered up when Israel attacked us on purpose and killed a bunch of sailors. If they’re willing to not only forgive, but go to great lengths to conceal acts of war by Israel against the United States, then there isn’t anything they could do to Arab countries they’ve invaded that would push the US away.

      • alcyoneous
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        1 year ago

        Wow, I had no clue about the USS Liberty incident but that seems pretty damming.

  • Chuymatt@artemis.camp
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    1 year ago

    The image I have is a GIF of Q laying in a sultry manner on the bridge of the Enterprise. So bizarre.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
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    1 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    The open disdain toward Biden from many in a reliably Democratic bloc is among the many signs the conflict is quickly remaking U.S. domestic politics, with public fury over a Hamas attack that killed 1,400 Israelis colliding with the horror of entire families in the Gaza Strip being wiped out in Israel’s retaliatory strikes.

    Incensed U.S. Arab and Muslim advocacy groups this week called Biden’s remarks about the death count dangerous, and some prominent voices from those communities chimed in on social media, saying that the president had lost them and that they were considering sitting out the 2024 election.

    When word got out that the president wanted to meet with community leaders — ones approved by senior staffers — national activists immediately began working the phones to pressure invitees to decline or to accept only on the condition that Biden answer for his remarks about Palestinian deaths.

    Two days later, the president made the comments questioning the accuracy of Palestinian casualties at a time when Arabic-language TV channels were showing nonstop footage of lifeless, dust-covered children being pulled from the rubble after Israeli strikes.

    Contacted by The Post about the meeting, Ellison said in an email, “Muslim community leaders told President Biden that the suffering of innocent Gazans trying to survive in extremely difficult circumstances has actually increased the likelihood of Islamophobic attacks in the United States.

    “It’s really crazy to me that the Democratic party destroyed 20-years … worth of good will with Muslims and Arabs in just 2 weeks, losing an entire generation that was raised in the progressive coalition, possibly forever,” Eman Abdelhadi, a University of Chicago professor of comparative human development who studies Palestinian Americans, wrote Thursday on X, formerly Twitter.


    The original article contains 2,396 words, the summary contains 286 words. Saved 88%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

    • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      they were considering sitting out the 2024 election

      This is the single most idiotic thing you could do in response.

      This may be horrible action from Biden, but throwing away their votes may as well be a vote for Republicans.

      And I assure you, they will do much worse

      • Reptorian@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Republicans only care about Israel funding as a image thing. They don’t care about Jewish people at all. While there are reports of anti-semitism on college campuses, there are plenty of young people who has their heart out for the Muslim, Arab, and Jewish people all alike, and wishes for a permanent solution that allows them to live with each other in peace. So, really, the only reasonable solution is to vote for Biden, but also people who prefers to take a more nuanced view of the war like AOC.

      • BabyWah@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It is stupid, but see it in context: the Muslim community has been ostracized, alienated and systematically blamed and punished as ‘the baddies’ since 9/11, while the majority of them just want to live their normal lives.

        White people/Christians/actually everyone, never realised how much pain and suffering 9/11 also did cause the average Muslim too. Loss of jobs, income, rise of the right wing and perpetually being ridiculed and invalidated.

        This coming from an ex-muslim… To be honest, when I read Biden saying that, it infuriated me. Why can’t he be nuanced and defend Israel AND Gazan civilians AND condemn Hamas at the same time? Because he can’t. He doesn’t care how many kids are dying right now with his stupid ‘cost of war’ rhetoric, because he doesn’t believe those lives matter. He thinks this will blow over in a year, because no one cares about brown/Muslim people.

        Come what may, he just lost the election and gave republicans all those votes. Let’s hope there are enough white guys replacing them. I wouldn’t vote for him too. It is stupid and nobody wants that orange buffoon back, but sending a signal that enough is enough is more important sometimes.

        • MagicShel@programming.dev
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          1 year ago

          Respectfully to your opinion, nothing is more important than preventing fascism from getting more of a foothold than it already has. I don’t care how mad you are at Dems for not doing more, a Christofascist America would be a rabid enemy to Muslims.

          I’m not even a Democrat. I’m just a dude voting for democrats to keep the country out of the hands of the current batch of Republicans.

          • BabyWah@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yeah I agree with you 100%. Republicans are heading for a real life Gilead, I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.

            Let’s hope I’m wrong, he still has some time to change their minds.

        • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          I heavily disagree. Throwing away your vote or voting red simply as a “fuck you” does nothing but hurt everyone else.

          Put your votes to a different dem, or even go independent.

          Shooting your own foot in protest is just stupid.

          • CluelessLemmyng@lemmy.sdf.org
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            1 year ago

            Right. There is no Muslim representation in the GOP. You cannot say that about the Democratic party. The Democrats are a coalition ranging from Center Right to Far left. There is a candidate in there for you to support and vote for.

            At the end of the day, a vote for the GOP or a no-vote is not the way to go. It’s how you get Trumpers in office and they will most certainly make Muslims and Arabs suffer no matter what. It’s stupid to think otherwise.

          • BabyWah@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            It is stupid, I 100% agree with that. I also know from experience that sometimes it’s the only way to get their attention.

            Muslims (or any minority for that matter) were and are suffering anyway, especially after 9/11 and they usually vote with their emotions.

            Democrats/Biden never should have spoken out in that way, even if HE thinks it’s true. It was undignified, especially for a world leader to be so shortsighted.

            Saying Israel had the right to defend itself was okay, we all agreed. When the death toll was rising beyond that, he shirked it off as the ‘cost of war’. This got me angry. Vetoing UN humanitarian aid? My brain just couldn’t process it. When he said he ‘doubts’ the numbers are right? He really got my blood boiling.

            This man is systematically and wilfully undermining the Palestinians agony, death and suffering, agreeing with genocide AND expects everyone to shut up?

            Yeah, I get the sense that he thinks he can say anything at this point because the other guy is worse. But he forgets that staying at home and not voting for anyone is also a choice.

            So glad I live in Europe…

      • nyar@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The Democrats have forgotten votes are earned not guaranteed.

        I’m not voting for anyone who enables genocide.

          • nyar@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I’m not voting for Trump. I guess that’s an automatic vote for Biden then?

            Oh, it doesn’t work like that? Guess the logic doesn’t work either way then.

            • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              Not voting is the most irresponsible thing you can do, and makes you part of the problem

              If you throw away your vote, and the worst option wins, it is just as much your fault as the ones that voted for them

              Also, you forfeit your right to complain about any of it. You had your choice, you did nothing.

              Vote or shut up

  • Reptorian@lemmy.zip
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    1 year ago

    Maybe he can offer this after Hamas’ defeat:

    1. Support changes in Israel government to have a hard look at the Haredi group of Jewish people and illegal settlements within West Bank. I got this idea from conversing with a Israeli and he pointed to Haredis.
    2. Peacekeeping forces within West Bank and Gaza to prevent further wars and illegal settlements.
    3. Bolsters belief of cohesion with each other.

    I do think Biden is in the correct not to trust the civilian death tolls given fog of war, and the issue with Hamas as a group. That being said, he shouldn’t support the current government of Israel either.

    Also, if you’re downvoting, you need to understand that yes, I understand that there are problems within Israel, but there is no reason to support Hamas either. If you understand that, then where’s the issue here?

    • AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago
      1. After 70+ years of occupation “we’ll look into it” is the best we can offer? Really?
      2. Who would these Peace keepers be? IDF? Pro-Israel US troops? Iranian military? There are no neutral forces for this job. Also, why only peace keeping to further subjugate the Palestinian people? Why no peace keeping forces to keep Israel from committing more ethnic cleansing?
      3. Huh?
      • Reptorian@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Thank you for offering criticisms instead of downvoting.

        1. It’s better late than never. And looking into it still paves the way to put some people in jail.
        2. It should be outside of those you mentioned. They’ll probably consider another war without interference, so yes, there should be peacekeeping forces occupying Gaza/West Bank, and some internal checking within Israel. It’s a good question of who though. None of those you listed are good suggestions, and I do struggle to think of a neutral one. The closest I can think of is United Nation, but that’s probably not enough.
        3. One of the condition to prevent wars is acceptance of other people. So, yes, there should be support toward each other. Some of the Israelis are in support for Palestine civilians, and some Palestinians are in support of Israel civilians. More of that is needed. Much more in fact.
      • DoomBot5@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Do you have a better alternative beyond “let the terrorists keep running the show and occasionally bombing Israel”?

          • Zippy@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Why isn’t it their land? They have legitimate claims a thousand years back but were ran off then.

            • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              By that logic the United States shouldn’t exist, either. It’s built on stolen land with legitimate claims going back tens of thousands of years.

              • Zippy@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Exactly. Forever and a day you have no rights to exsist except from the place where your ancestors came from a million years ago.

                You rather made my point that the Palestinians have no greater right than the Israelites. Hamas on the other hand has stated with no ambiguity that their policy is to exterminate absolutely every last Jew in the middle East.