• Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    To be fair, and I hate to play Devil’s advocate to this bullshit, but the US tried to share their “lessons learned” with Israel. The US repeatedly told Israel to not go full in like the US had done in Iraq and Afghanistan (read Felluja). After Fallujah, the US changed tactics and took a more “small strikeforce”, infiltrate and assassinate approach. Israel basically told the US to shut the fuck up and just started blasting.

    There’s nobody better in the world to tell you how to avoid war crimes than someone with decades of experience in committing war crimes.

    • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The US repeatedly told Israel

      While sending them 3 billion a year, if they wanted them to stop they would threaten to stop sending the money.

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Biden made that move with Ukraine to great success, why not now?

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Right now, yes. Hell even before the recent war broke out, when Biden threatened to withdraw US aid if Ukraine didn’t root out corruption (a move Trump complained about at the time and what stirred up all the controversy about Hunter Biden - Trump wanted corruption to remain) it proved very effective, Ukraine clearly did not want to lose the aid and dealt with the corruption as requested.

            What did you think I was talking about?? How was it a bad thing then when dealing with corruption, and why would it be a bad thing now dealing with war crimes?

            I’m sure if the US withdrew aid to Israel, it likely also wouldn’t exist for that much longer. Hence why it would be effective.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Israel doesn’t have the enemies in had in the 1960’s. It would certainly be in more danger but it could also pick up relationships with Russia and China.

              To be clear I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to clean up corruption and stop war crimes. I’m just saying one country is at the end of its rope and the other is very much not. That said, I’m all for cutting Israel off if they don’t stop playing stupid games.

              • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Israel doesn’t have enemies anymore, it has customers. It sells weapons grade hacking technology to oppressive regimes - hell, even to the Mexican cartels.

                But even so the US cutting them off would be a severe blow. Unfortunately it would also have significant blowback within the US.

  • Inucune@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Tired of “every political problem is US fault,” so I’m kicking the can.

    Anything you want to blame on the US is Britain’s fault.

    They failed to suppress the colonial revolution, and odds are, also caused whatever problems the US gets told to go police as the UN lapdog.

    • cmhe@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It seems to me that this is the one political position the author has: “America bad.” And everything follows from there. Russia invades Ukraine: Actually it’s America’s fault, because NATO expansion is violating non-existent treaties. Israel bombs Gaza and does the crimes against humanities: Actually it’s America’s fault, because Israel is just imitating America.

      This seems like the usual “what aboutism” from Russian or Chinese propaganda.

      What Israel did is really really bad, but America didn’t force them to do it. And America’s response of unconditional support is also bad, but they generally didn’t want this conflict, because it’s not useful to their agenda.

      America does enough bad stuff, no need to invent more.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Tired of “every political problem is US fault,” so I’m kicking the can.

      That’s the impression the article title gives you - and it gave me, also - but when you read it I think you’ll realise it’s far more than mere hyperbole.


      Edit: Also, all the great bits about Great Britain are not English. It’s primarily the English (as well as a few Scottish aristocrats) who perpetrated all the colonial bullshit.

      Bring back the Normans, I say. The only people who successfully conquered Britain in 1,000 years. Technically, the Channel Islands is the last Norman refuge. I’d quite happily have the Bailiwick of Guernsey rule over the UK - not Jersey though, they’re a bunch of toffs and should stay on their own Island, where the rest of the Tories can be deported to.

      But I genuinely think you should read the article, all the way, if you haven’t yet.

  • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Damn, I went into the article thinking it was biased and sensationalist, but it seems like the author was entirely on point.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      It’s worth giving the article a read. It compares US attacks in Iraq with Israel in Gaza, and draws comparison with the “human shield” excuse that both have been using to dismiss civilian casualties. It also goes into the US’ weak interpretation of the Geneva convention and how Israeli lawyers are basically saying “they got away with it, so should we!”

      The article doesn’t say it was the US’ fault, it says that the US paved the way.

        • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I mean I was hoping you’d take the time to read the article and broaden your understanding, because it’s fairly apparent that you haven’t yet.

          • sartalon@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I think the commentor is implying “who cares who"s fault it is, just stop the war in Gaza.”

        • BleatingZombie@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know why you’re getting flak for this. It doesn’t matter “who started it”. Everyone should just stop. Committing war crimes should be an easy thing to stop doing

  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Oof. There’s so much conflation and handwaving here it really reads like propaganda that requires buy in on an concept first.

  • MxM111@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Sure, US policy in Middle East was far from ideal, but example given in article for US massive bombardments were about fight with ISIS. I do not think you can get moral ground by criticizing that. ISIS should have been fought and exterminated.

    Yes there is parallel with what Israel is doing with Hamas. But use this analogy to think about that it is not as black and white as most people here pretend to be.

    • droopy4096@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Right now every participant in conflict has committed numerous crimes. There is ho moral high ground for anybody. Every side is lying through their teeth to achieve their goals. People of Israel and Palestine are dying while selected few in Israeli and Palestinians get richer and consolidate power in their hands. Both sides have been solidly brainwashed against each other. It’d take enormous effort to stabilize things. I have not seed anyone fitting the bill.

      • MxM111@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        The problem is that I do not see solution with Hamas and current right wing government in Israel in power. But if the government in Israel can be (and likely will be after these events) changed in democratic elections, no such luck with Hamas. Hamas leaders already are promising multiple repeats of recent massacre. Their whole ideology is based on destruction of Jews from the very beginning of founding of this organization. If peace is to happen in future I just see no path other than forceful removal of them from the power. Do you?

        • droopy4096@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          The problem is that I do not see solution with Hamas and current right wing government in Israel in power.

          agreed

          Unfortunately adding “2 + 2” I come to the same conclusion. The only chance for this to stop is external force. Whether it’s weapon supply to Hamas or them getting ostracized by Arab world (I mean Hamas, not Palestinians). Democratic shift in Israel is a necessary prerequisite too however it can’t come with a weakening of Israel or we’ll be witnessing Holocaust v2. Most of my life I despised Israel for what they did to Palestine however in light of recent events I believe militarily they ought to be strong to prevent any further attempts at genocide of Israelis and they should stay within their own borders

            • droopy4096@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              not quite. Palestine never got it’s independence and never had government concerned with Palestine development rather than external threats. I do not recall anybody attempting to aid Palestine to become independent. Israel’s “aid” was used as means of control.

              I’m talking about two countries going their own way. That never happened.

                • droopy4096@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  Either it’s my client or my eyes but I did not see mentions of “Gaza strip” in your previous messages in this thread. Sorry.