- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
Vice President Kamala Harris said in a meeting Saturday with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi that Washington will not allow for the forced relocation of Palestinians or any redrawing of the current border of the Gaza Strip.
“Under no circumstances will the United States permit the forced relocation of Palestinians from Gaza or the West Bank, the besiegement of Gaza, or the redrawing of the borders of Gaza,” Harris said, according to a statement from the vice president’s office.
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And what will the US do to prevent it then? Cut funding? Cut military aid? Declare War on Terror?
Nobody wants it to happen, the truth is that even the Arab world wants Palestine beaten and shoved into a corner, so they can keep using them as an excuse to hate. They don’t actually care about Palestinians, neither does Europe, that’s why they don’t want refugees or take in Palestinians who want out.
Citations?
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so many replies to this and yet not one of them has a link. i wonder why they’re having so much trouble backing up their positions
Well for one, Egypt was refusing most people fleeing the gaza strip, but that’s to be expected when 1.5 Million people try to leave at once.
Egypt is also responsible for the terrorist organization that more or less runs the strip and attacked the festival a month ago, they were originally Egyptian.
Do you often just make things up on the internet?
Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which are mortal enemies of the current of government of Egypt.
Exactly what I just said. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt, and after 2011 they won and briefly held 42% of parliament seats and the presidency, but luckily they were forced out of government soon after.
Hamas’ biggest villain’s are from Egypt, the Egyptian people are more responsible for Hamas’ actions than Palestine, so I think it’s honestly very sad for Palestine to be trapped in a situation where there are enemies on all sides adding fuel to the fire.
Lol nobody shits on Muslims as much as other Muslims. Take Xinjiang, for example. Nobody fucking cares. Arabs always hated Palestinians too. Israel supplied more humanitarian aid to Gaza than whole of Muslim world combined (gifts to Hamas don’t count as humanitarian aid).
I don’t think Israeli aid counts as “aid” because it’s their obligation under intentional law governing occupation, and they have fallen short of these commitments.
But it’s true, Arab governments don’t give shit about Palestinians. I mean, most governments around the world barely give a shit about their own people. The leaders of Egypt and Jordon and Lebanon have never demonstrated an interest in Palestinian statehood.
Your talking about countries that with unstable economy, can be easily have riots or someone can easily fund and ISIS like group to have a civil war?
Most of the Arab countries have taken people during war with expectations they can go back, but then they couldn’t because Isreal refuse to snd stole land.
Blaming Arab countries at this time without any historical or recent understanding is an attempt to shift the blame and conversation to something not important.
People are dying, kids are dying, US government send weapons to Isreal, and then bluntly lying to people. Lets keep the conversation focus…
Nobody shits on Muslims as much as racists like you.
The Arab world has already taken millions of Palestinians.
Pretty sure those countries doesn’t want yet more for:
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the same reason no country wants a higher per capita percentage of refugees these days and
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because they don’t want to give Israel and the US excuses to drone bomb them looking for HAMAS terrorists and
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countries on the border with Israel don’t want it to have a reason for coming over their borders all the time, because that would likely end in border redrawings
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What do you mean you won’t permit it? You mean you will actually try to stop Israel from doing it? Will you stop giving Israel money?
Or are you just going to do nothing?
No she just means Israel will have to kill them all.
That’s what I got from this.
Shitty how politics has become nothing but coded language that we need to decipher to figure out what’s really going on.
Politics has always been about spin
Shitty how politics has become nothing but coded language that we need to decipher to figure out what’s really going on.
If you think that’s actually what she meant I’d love to hear what you think about the moon landing
Israel: k we’ll just kill them all then. Thanks for the money and weapons btw
Relocation wont make US any money. Conflict will
The Israel-Palestine conflict does not make money for the US, the country. It makes money for a minority of people who have significant shares in companies from the military industry, who are enriching themselves from the taxes of their fellow citizens to finance Israel’s policies.
Only for the ruling class of capitalist corporations and their owners though.
This might be the first time I’ve heard a demand imposed on Israel from the US during this recent escalation. Hopefully, the first of many.
i wonder if it was a coincidence it wasnt biden
They make Kamala say all the stuff that they fear might backfire. She was also put in charge of stopping illegal immigration, knowing they really didn’t have any way to actually do it.
Mere talk is not “imposing” anything.
The politcians in power in the US are just using talkie-talk to try to hold off potential problems with a significant portion of their natural voters’ outright abhorring Genocide and thus being unwilling to vote them back into power in the upcoming elections due to their support for those activelly comitting one.
Talk is the cheapest way there is to project an impression one way whilst continuing to act in exactly the opposite way.
Is it “mere talk” when Biden says US support for Israel is unconditional? No, we can and should criticize him for that because those words encourage Israel to act without restraint. But, conversely, when the US signals that they will not support actions like forced relocation, we should also see that as a corrective, not “mere talk”.
To your point, in IR theory, there also exists phenomena such as the paradox of empty promises, where making unfulfilled promises can worsen human rights. But that claim is more nuanced: the problem occurs when promises are empty. That doesn’t mean all promises are empty or promising doesn’t matter. Public declarations are a necessary step (but insufficient on their own) to justify further action.
Your oversimplified what I wrote and then from that highly reductive take you built an overcomplicated argument.
If certain statements are reliably not followed by action that further the state objectives then “they’re all talk”, if they are reliably followed by such action then they’re not.
Whilst statements by themselves can logically neither be accepted as trully meant nor dismissed as “just talk” in the absence of any track record at all (i.e. first time your hear such things from such people) because there has not yet been time to observe if they’re followed by action or inaction leading to a conclusion about the statements being meant or “just talk”, when there is a track record one can most certainly extrapolate the likelihood of such statements now being meant or “just talk” if in the past such actors reliably followed such statements with action or inaction.
As it so happen, US Administrations, Democrat and Republican, including those were Biden was, invariably followed statements were they claimed they were going to make Israel do or not do something, with no effective action towards their state objectives or even with actions which were counter those objectives.
In fact the there not being a 2 state solution in Palestine even though various US Adminidtrations claimed to favour it is exactly because NOT ONCE has any of those Administrations acted to punish the Israeli Government for their actions against the Oslo Agreements, quite the contrary: Israel has kept being supported economically and military all the while it acted against the wished stated by the various US Administrations.
It is thus entirelly logical to expect that statements from the US Administration about imposing anything on Israel are “just talk”, and totally illogical to ignore the track record of decades of “stating one objective and the acting in opposition to it” by the US with regards to Israel.
Nowhere in your first comment do you make anything like the argument in your second comment. You say that my summary is reductive and that I built an “over complicated argument” by talking about broken promises. But then you essentially argue that this will be a broken promise!
Your second argument is more reasonable, and not at all over complicated, which is why I anticipated it. The problem with your fatalist take is that “mere talk” precedes, not only broken promises, but also fulfilled promises. Honestly, if your cynical take is right, then there’s no reason to expect anything from any party ever. Cynicism is depressingly fashionable on the left.
“Demand” from the otherwise completely powerless VP.
Seems legit
Yeah, it’s a long way from sufficient, but this is huge progress from active support for genocide.
Call me when they stop actively supporting genocide. Empty words are empty.
Kinda silly in my opinion. What exactly do they think the systematic destruction of Gaza is? People should live in the rubble?
They can’t rebuild since those kinds of tools could be used for weapons according to Israel.
I see a lot of similarities between WWII Jewish ghettos and modern day Gaza. It looks like an aggregate oppressed becomes the oppressor syndrome, but I’m probably wrong.
Uh huh.
And yet she’s giving Israel bombs to destroy people’s homes. Literally forcibly relocating them. Never mind that 70% of Gazans were forcibly relocated from their land 75 years ago.
These statements are just cover for more Israeli murder. It’s designed to make people feel complacent.
Wait so 70% of Gazans were forcibly relocated, why 50% of Gaza are children under 18…
Make up your mind over your made up numbers please.
And calling this war “Israeli murder” is ignoring the existence of actual terrorists who keep innocent civilians hostage, and who targeted attacked and murdered over 1,000 innocents.
Yeah, I call people who kill 5000 children with bombs murderers.
Oh damn I guess churchill is a murderer monster huh.
Intention matters. The fact that you ignore it, is bad.
Yeah, when the IDF purposely bomb schools, hospitals, evacuation corridors which they told to evacuate through, UN facilitates, etc. that makes them murderers.
Dude those same civilian facilities are proven to store artillery. Once a site is being used for war purposes, don’t be surprised that it’s being destroyed - in a war.
Everybody is criticizing Israel for bombing UN facilities, while no one critisizes Hamas for storing ammunition in said facilities. That’s just hypocrisy.
Fun fact. Murder does not justify more murder.
Oh so war is never justified then huh? When you’ve been massacared with intent for further destruction by that same people, you can’t retaliate, you’re just supposed to sit back and cry about it. Sure, ok.
Oh look words that aren’t the words I said.
“murder does not justify more murder”
The murder which is happening is by a war. If you don’t know that, you’re living under a rock. And what I said, is that this war is justified. So yes, this is exactly what you said, you just deny it. War = murder. “Murder isn’t justified” -> “war isn’t justified”. Very simple logic.
No. You don’t get to conflate war crimes with normal casualties.
Whatever, I really don’t care about what you think. You can blame it all on one side, ignoring the ruthlessness of the other on their enemies and even on their own citizens. Just ignore Hamas hiding guns in schools, ignore them firing rockets from public parks, ignore them targeting civilians (with no military infrastructure/personnel). Just ignore it all, and blame the jews for everything. Just like the 1930s. “War crimes” my ass. If you really cared about war crimes you would’ve complained to Hamas, not the IDF.
Um… They’ve already been pushed out of their homes and relocated. That was under the “circumstance” of Israel invading and killing them. I don’t think the phrase “under no circumstances” applies here.
Better pushed out than slaughtered like Be’eri.
Will there be any Palestinians left to relocate when this genocide is over?
That’s why the “threat” means nothing.
Lol what? Does anyone here think anyone in Israel is going to kill 2 million Gazans? It’s like no one here knows the difference between mass killings and wars. You don’t evacuate civilians in mass killings, you slaughter them in their homes (sort of like what Hamas did on 7/10)
And what Israel is doing now. I think the issue here is that we get the sense that the only thing keeping it from killing all 2 million Gazans is the international pressure.
Until the money faucet turns off, Israel will keep doing their thing
Literally way too late for that and forced relocation was one of the myriad of reasons why this bullshit keeps happening.
Did she gave the wink and the nod towards the Israeli delegates during the speech or was it afterwards, backstage?!
How many billions of dollars are they sending to Israel’s military so they can genocide the natives again?
Lol “genocide the natives”
Read a bit about this conflict. This isn’t an isolated case, violence in Palestine between arabs and jews has existed since the 19th century. This is just an escalation of that violence, from both sides.
Yeah and before that there were Jews living in Palestine in peace. Until the Europeans decided they wanted to eject all the Jews from their population because the Europeans were incredibly anti semitic.
Then those colonist Zionists got weapons from the Europeans and killed the natives with it.
Again, saying they just suddenly started getting weapons and killing natives is just ignoring the context.
As you said, Jews fled European countries because of antisemitism. But they migrated to Palestine legally buying land and working farms to grow their cities. There was no violence by immigrant jews, and no wars on arabs, like your idea of colonialism. Zionism isn’t an empire looking to grow its control, it’s finding a home, through legally bought land, in an historically significant place for the jews, after they were persecuted by pretty much everybody. Heck, most of the early killings were started by arabs who simply didn’t like jews being next to them (Tel Hai, jaffa/haifa riots, jerusalem stabbings…)
Again, it’s isn’t an isolated conflict, and it has much context with so much hatred from both sides. Saying “they bad they killed the natives” is just losing 100% of the context and circumstances.
This is a false. Many Zionists lived as regufees and proceeded to steal the houses of the Palestinians who took them in. Zionists are the worst of the worst. Scum of the earth
Source?
Early zionism is literally just buying land from arabs in Palestine and growing jewish population in said areas. Idk where you got that info from, of alegged stealing of houses, but that just isn’t true. Maybe you speak of the 48 war? Which is much later, and is after a full blown war, which everyone acknowledges that there were refugees from said war, and that jews inhabited abandoned arab houses after they left the country. It’s like Syrian immigrants going back to Syria after years of being immigrants and demanding the current people who live where their house used to be (or whatever stands in that place) to give that house back to them. That just isn’t how war or the world works.
https://youtu.be/cWMobyQYSIc?t=18s
You have a very interesting way of speaking about ethnic cleansing. “the Arabs left their houses” lmao. Get out of here IDF shill.
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Again, when does any of that “proof” video say jews stole land? And again, not the 48 war, since it has the cause of migration in the name itself - war. If war is ethnic cleansing then ohhhh boy are there many ethnic cleansing in the world, and Palestinians are so not special. Don’t ignore context. Yes, many Palestinians were refugees. But no, it wasn’t because of zionism. It was because of the war. Before the war, there were no Palestinian refugees - because unlike what Al Jazeera preaches, zionism was a settlement movement, and a peaceful one. If Palestinian arabs weren’t violent in the resistance to zionism, there would’ve been no violence. But no, they were violent. Same with their arab neighbours, who want nothing more than death to their neighboring jews.
Jews are the natives. Literally the Aramaic way of saying Jew means of the Levant region. You have no clue what you are talking about. Palestinians are refugees that no one wants. Not even their Islamic brethren in other countries. Israel worked to negotiate many peace deals and even had a work visa program. The apartheid-style sanctions were due to security constraints because the Palestinians kept blowing shit up. If people the next town over from you drive into your town an burned down your house randomly, you would eventually put up military checkpoints as well. Many of the radicalized Palestinians don’t appreciate Western culture and think that it’s an affront of their religion. They want women to have minimal rights. It blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny.
Jews are the natives
A war 1400 years ago does not justify colonizing and slaughtering natives right now. Surely you can see how fucked up that is?
By that logic, can African Americans or Chinese Americans return to their respective continents, occupy an entire country by displacing its current population, and claim it as their ancestral land? How delusional.
And since when is “the period of Judah” an accurate historical reference point?
Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism, was just a racist colonizer, and saw it as bringing ‘civilization’ to ‘barbarians’ as the rest of Europe did when they were colonizing and enslaving Africa and Asia:
“We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence.” Source [II]
That is exactly what’s happening right now. All for European and US military and economic interests in the region; for their ruling class of capitalist corporations at least.
Israel is just a modern western colony committing genocide on natives. It’s keeping the middle-east divided and preventing them from uniting against the Imperial core.
Gaza has been an open-air prison trapping the natives the whole time. And you’re trying to deny their right to fight back against colonizers and settlers? They’re literally openly colonizing the West Bank right now with their whole “Area C” garbage. It’s disgusting.
want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny
Jesus christ, the US and Europe are the ones constantly keeping the Middle East at war to keep oil cheap and military profits high, and keeping them from making societal progress. And I’m saying that as an ex-Muslim. This is literally British colonialist era racist thinking of seeing ‘the other side’ as barbarians.
The PFLP, the second largest Palestinian liberation group after Fatah, calls for a secular Palestinian state where Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. will live together in peace. Modern Fatah even accepts a two-state solution (and they have every right not to).
Only Hamas is mixing up Zionists with Jews, and that’s entirely because of Israel and the Imperial core’s constant oppression, displacement, and now genocide of the natives.
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They’re literally openly colonizing the West Bank
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Egypt made Gaza an open-air-prison. Israel just became it’s owner with no takebacksies.
Arab countries have created more JIMENA refugees to Israel than there were ever Palestinians.
Palestinians are refugees that no one wants. Not even their Islamic brethren in other countries. Israel worked to negotiate many peace deals and even had a work visa program. The apartheid-style sanctions were due to security constraints because the Palestinians kept blowing shit up…Many of the radicalized Palestinians don’t appreciate Western culture and think that it’s an affront of their religion. They want women to have minimal rights. It blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny.
You sound like a child describing to their parent why one of their action toys was able to beat up one of their other action toys. You also seem to have very little ability to comprehend how you cannot make blanket generalizations about groups of millions of people, which coincidentally is the root of why the genocide of the Palestinian people is being allowed to happen.
You are falling for propaganda. The blood is on Hammas’ hands. They are in fact hiding in schools and hospitals. Israel has a right to defend itself.
Your story is missing quite a bit.
First of all, Jew refers to both a religion and ethnicity, but in this context (Israel) is almost exclusively ethnic.
Palestinians are Jews (the religion), Christians and Muslims, not exclusively Muslim. The PLO is an explicitly religiously tolerant group whose logo was a menorah, cross and crescent moon.
Hamas, the Muslim Palestinian extremist group, was primarily funded and supported by Israel to break PLO dominance of Palestinian politics, because fighting a religiously tolerant nationalist movement that had recently commited to non-violence was bad optics internationally.
The Palestinians were forced at gunpoint to abandon their homes and move to Gaza and the West Bank during the Nakba in 1948.
Less than 1% of Palestinians are Jews. 93% Muslim. 6% Christian. The homes in question were stolen in previous centuries from Jews and the society was in shambles. The people moved were half a million at most. Gaza and the West Bank are quite nice regions containing beaches and workable land. They had no representative government and were subject to the fallout of a war and a collapsed government. Given the circumstances, they made out with more than they were owed.
Israel funding Hammas is a common misconception used as propaganda. It made concessions to try and help it reform, such as work visas. It was trying to keep the peace. Sure, there are factions in the Israel government that want to use Hamas as a wedge between a unified Palestine, but saying that it was straight up getting funding is skipping some nuance.
Yikes that is some next level propaganda and misinformation you are spreading.
I guess the native Americans can start killing Americans then
I mean, yeah they could? We literally annihilated entire civilizations of native americans, we stole this land.
Afaik, the people who did that are not around anymore. If they were, I’d say go for it, but I’m of the strong opinion that it’s not ok to kill millions of people for something their predecessors did.
You just described all of human history. It is conquest all the way back to the beginning.
What a lazy way to dismiss any kind of stakes to discussing history and the consequences of it.
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It is not at all true that other places outside of Europe were “calmer”, if by calm you mean peaceful.
Asia: I’m sure you have heard of the original empires of Mesopotamia, like Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and others. They were absolutely brutal, had some of the first standing armies, and practically invented genocide on a mass scale. Then there is the Mongolian Empire and other steppe empires like the Golden Horde, all of them famous for industrial-scale mass slaughter. And, of course, there is the ethnic cleansing of most of present-day China by the Han people. In Japan, early mainland immigrants wiped out the Ainu. In India, you have the invasion by northern Aryan tribes who slaughtered and dominated the Dravidian people, the remnant of which are still in southern India and Sri Lanka. Those are just a few of the better known ones.
Africa: There was all-conquering Egypt, of course, and many others south of the Sahara I’m sure, though they are less well-documented for obvious reasons.
Americas: The Inca and the Aztec were significant conquering empires. We are limited by a lack of written language in most of the Americas, but it is well-documented both orally and archaeologically that North American tribes displaced one another with regularity.
In terms of slavery…nearly every civilization prior to the industrial revolution used slave labour extensively, because that was the way to get work done before the advent of machines. The institution of slavery varied significantly across time and place, from the death sentence of working to death in Roman salt mines to well-educated slaves who were clerks and teachers. Slavery was a major Roman institution, but it was (and still is) rampant across Asia and Africa. The Americas also had slavery.
So what, Japan just colonized most of Asia to spread zen vibes? Or, you know that time Ghengis Khan raped and pillaged his way all the way to Eastern Europe? Or, failing that the repeated wars between Egypt and the Hittites? Even the native Hawaiians fought wars between the islands prior to their colonization. Conquest, genocide and enslavement have been the human condition for all of history everywhere without exception.
Preemptive edit: This doesn’t excuse any of it and we are finally, maybe barely moving past it, but the only reason it seems like this is a western phenomenon is because the most recently globally dominant nations are from there.
It is funny that you would say that right after writing that native Americans would be justified in killing Americans. You see the irony, right?
blows me away that many left-leaning individuals want to help support their backwards culture of misogyny
If you’re left-leaning too, I’d suggest looking at this through the wider lens of European/US Imperialism/Capitalism/Colonialism and how it keeps the global south from making economic or societal progress even after colonialism supposedly ‘ended’ in 1997 (not that long ago). Second Thought, Hakim, and Yugopnik make great videos on the topic.
Religion does certainly play a role in misogyny, but it’s nothing that can’t be overcome in a non-oppressive society imo.
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European/US Imperialism and Capitalism
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I mean, it’s just going to be like past big conflicts. Where Israel claims people were not forced to relocate.
Folks won’t be “forced,” but their lives and their family’s lives will be at great risk if they don’t relocate - so a lot of people are going to relocate if they have the option. If they don’t, they’re basically sleeping on a shooting range.
By “past big conflicts” you mean the 48 war…? Because that’s the only war where that happened
And you can reasonably assume that things are different from 70 years ago, and that nobody, not even Israel, wants Gaza now.
But tut-tutting israel while civilians are left in place to be bombed is fine. But don’t you dare move them!
Nobody gives a fuck what the US says. Worthless empty lies and promises.
Except sometimes the threats are backed up if it’s convenient enough. The US doesn’t always intentionally lie, there’s just not much continuity of policies across administrations, so even if one president does genuinely agree to something- they can’t really make their successor follow it. Especially if the successor strongly disagrees with them on most things.
The gov’s entire system is fucked. They haven’t even gotten rid of the centuries old constitution written by slave owners and teenagers yet lol.
I think the entire world has understood that by now, if the last 70 years weren’t enough.
