• people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org
    531·
    10 months ago

    I really wished Rogue had just taken her gloves off and held Storm’s hand in that scene. Would have put the point across beautifully.

    • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.worldEnglish
      301·
      10 months ago

      “Theres nothing to cure? Is that Right Ms. Amazing powers with no horrific disfigurement thats not a threat to anyone?” takes off glove “If I dont need a cure, then shake my hand. Go on. Do it. I’m perfect as I am, right?”

      “Uh…I…”

      “SHAKE MY GODDAMN HAND BEFORE I WRAP IT AROUND YOUR THROAT YOU STUCK UP ELITIST BITCH”

  • AeonFelis@lemmy.worldEnglish
    36·
    10 months ago

    Fun fact - in the comics Forge made a gun that strips away mutant powers, and the government tried to use in on Rogue (which, having absorbed Ms. Marvel, was much more of a threat than her version in the Fox movies) - but Storm, ignorant to the gun’s purpose, took the bullet for her. After that, lamenting the loss of her powers became her entire personality for a while. Comics being comics eventually she got them back - but I think that she is still a bit salty about this, and it shows in that scene.

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
    29·
    10 months ago

    Yeah that line always bothered me as well. Rogue should have just pocked her. Yeah, feel how fine do you feel now

  • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
    303·
    10 months ago

    We don’t need medicine, prescription glasses, clothes…

    We are all perfect already.

  • AeonFelis@lemmy.worldEnglish
    221·
    10 months ago

    We look at mutants and see cool powers, but mutants in the Marvel universe are first and foremost a hated minority. Storm wants to fight the very idea of the cure, because if the cure exists - mutants will be forced to take it. The poster boy of the cure in that movie was was Warren Worthington III, and he got one of the relatively good mutations (yes, it’s physically visible, but it’s not one of the grotesque ones) but his father still tried to force the cure on him.

    It sucks for mutants like Rogue who really do want to get rid of their powers, but mutantkind as a whole does not have the luxury of allowing the cure to exist.

    • MrBusiness@lemmy.zipEnglish
      11·
      10 months ago

      I liked the premise of the story, hopefully they can try it again in some capacity with a director that’s not shit.

    • lad@programming.dev
      4·
      10 months ago

      Yeah, the scene immediately reminded me of the whole “we will cure you homosexuality” prospects of the (hopefully) past

      • RinseDrizzleEnglish
        6·
        10 months ago

        Man I wish that could be turned off. Game features so much brutal content but heaven forbid we see a naughty word.

          • lad@programming.dev
            2·
            10 months ago

            What is that supposed to even be, do they censor the word “knight” because, you know, n-word is in it (it’s not tho)?

            • Lesrid@lemm.ee
              2·
              10 months ago

              Yes player names can’t have knight display correctly because it has “nig” in it. Even though there are several characters with knight in their name and items referencing knight in their descriptions. The censor is poor however, so “KNight” works if you don’t mind capitalization errors

  • Bonehead@kbin.social
    3629·
    10 months ago

    To be fair, mutants are just an allegory for gay or otherwise non-heterosexual people. This scene makes a lot more sense when you factor this in.

    • psmgx@lemmy.world
      1362·
      10 months ago

      Nah. It was more about disability. Prof X is in a wheelchair, Cyclops is blind, Beast or Nightcrawler disfigured, Wolverine is Canadian, etc.

        • frezik
          16·
          10 months ago

          X-Men comics are. X-Men movies are coded to sexual minorities in particular. Like the way they come out to their parents. Including parents who are politicians who are vehemently anti-mutant.

          Bi/pansexuals are often accused of skirting around the problems other LGBTQ+ folk have. They can live an outwardly heteronormative life and not have to deal with social stigma. I fit in this category. This critique is sometimes unfair, but not always.

          Storm is taking up this position in OP. Rogue might be analogous to a very obviously trans person who gets a lot of looks in public, if not worse. You could see why someone in that position might want a shot that makes all their problems go away.

          • SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.worldEnglish
            8·
            10 months ago

            That’s because the whole point is responding to the issues of the day. The comics first came out in the 60s, and the main players are clear allegories for MLK, Malcom X, and the KKK. 2000s movies play off 2000s issues.

        • daltotron@lemmy.world
          3·
          10 months ago

          yeah this is basically true, but the X-Men also surpass their allegory, often, to real life problems, by both actually treating their mutants as though they have mutant powers, and as though they have problems that go along with, say, randomly being able to explode anything you touch, right. but they also surpass their allegory by just having real world problems just exist for their characters. prof. x used to be a football star or whatever before he got wheelchaired, he’s not innately wheelchaired as a result of his psychicness or mutantcy or whatever. cyclops isn’t even blind, he just has laser vision. if you look at the origins of the team in giant-size x-men, they’re all more, like, multiracial. you get the introduction of storm, thunderbird, colossus, nightcrawler, and none of those new characters are american, the two that would be white otherwise are basically weird monsters, and they all have to deal with shitty racism. X-Men, new and old, has kind of infamously just straight up had gay characters, and I think more recently you’ve had some trans characters too but idk much, maybe an area for improvement. there’s no reason for their mutant powers to serve as allegory when they already portray those issues in the comic.

          the distinguishing factor of X-Men in my mind is that it’s a fantastical commentary on race, sexuality, gender, whatever, but it’s not using the mutant powers for allegories for that. the mutant powers are just the element that makes it fantastical, and they’re kind of an exploration of the concept of random mutant powers more in earnest, than just like sort of, as a vehicle for something else.

      • Zanderlus@lemmy.world
        26·
        10 months ago

        Nah. It’s more of a general allegory encompassing all forms of minority groups and social outcasts. Different writers and editors choose which ones to highlight. For example, while the original Lee, Kirby 60s run–and Chris Claremont during the 70s–might have emphasized disabilities, through numerous stories like Days of Future Past, God Loves Man Kills, and New Mutants #45, Claremont during the 80s prioritized race and sexual orientation.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
          5·
          10 months ago

          Isn’t Wolverine like 500 years old or something? I’m sure there’s some movie (possibly Logan) in which he fights in the American civil war.

          So I suppose maybe he just moves countries every 50 years or so, so people don’t notice he never dies or ages.

      • AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world
        3·
        10 months ago

        I remember the one Wolverine issue where he had to kill some teen whose specific mutation caused everyone around him to die. And Wolverine had to kill him and cover it up so that mutants wouldn’t be hunted down.

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
      26·
      10 months ago

      I definitely get that’s the point, but the analogy breaks down when applied to characters like Rogue. Like there may be something there about how you can feel guilty about who you are because it “hurts” other people, but there are real world ways to give those people support and love without needing to “cure” them. Rogue doesn’t have that option, there’s not a found family that can make her not kill people when she touches them. There’s something innately and indisputably dangerous about her, which is not a great feel to apply to any marginalized group.

      • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
        16·
        10 months ago

        I see that meme a lot in autism communities, and it seems to fit very well. Every time it’s posted, it gets controversial between people with low support needs claiming that there’s nothing wrong with us, and people with higher support needs, claiming that it’s not wrong to seek a cure.

          • hansl@lemmy.world
            7·
            10 months ago

            I disagree. There are definitely people who would be “you just need to control it, no need to change it”. Which is why Storm is portrayed like that. It’s a lack of empathy.

            • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
              3·
              10 months ago

              I suppose it depends on how the scene puts delivered. If it is portrayed as a lack of empathy or just understanding, then yes I absolutely agree it’s realistic. If it’s portrayed as an empowering moment, that’s where we run into issues.

              From distant memory, it was the latter, but I’m trying to find clips that put it in context. Let me know if you find one.

          • Bonehead@kbin.social
            5·
            10 months ago

            Tell that to the gay kid in the 80s during the AIDS crysis when everyone was scared of gay people, who just wanted the thing that makes everyone hate them just go away.

            • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
              4·
              10 months ago

              But there’s a difference here. Yes there is a parallel to the AIDS epidemic here, but the difference is that the panic surrounding those with AIDS was unfounded and steeped in bigotry, while the fear of being killed by touching Rouge is very real.

              Like, no it’s not a moral failing to have AIDS, but that doesn’t mean the incredible advancements we’ve made in HIV treatment are a bad thing.

              To be clear, Rogue is still absolutely valid as a character who struggles with an innate affliction that is, for perceived or misguided reasons, considered dangerous. There’s definitely parallels to conversion therapy and the like. But the analogy to the persecution of marginalized groups is just broad enough to contain both those whose identity is the “disease” (Storm) and those whose identity is tied to but not synonymous with their affliction (Rogue). It’s the distinction that makes this particular line hit just a bit off the mark. Conversion therapy vs AZT, as it were.

              • Bonehead@kbin.social
                2·
                10 months ago

                Whether the threat is real or perceived, the end result is the exact same. Society blames a particular trait shared by a group of people even though a very small percentage of those people pose any sort of threat due to that trait. Gay people were literally killed because of that perceived threat. And often no one was punished.

                You also have to remember the time when this movie was released. Gay people had only just started being accepted, and there was a concerted effort by certain religious groups to try to derail any legal recognition of gay people. Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was still a very real thing in the military. The entire trilogy is an allegory for gay people. The original comics may have been about race, but these movies were for a different audience. It was a commentary on exactly what was happening during that time.

                You can criticize the sloppy writing of the third movie, but don’t dismiss the efforts by people trying to get a message across to the general population.

    • tmyakal@lemm.ee
      15·
      10 months ago

      So Rogue is like Dean Pelton in this?

      Gay doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
      15·
      10 months ago

      This scene makes a lot more sense when you factor this in.

      this scene ONLY makes sense when you factor that in.

      • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
        28·
        10 months ago

        No. It isn’t. People read way too much into children’s comics. I guess when you know nothing about anything other than being gay, everything becomes about being gay.

    • cynar@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      10 months ago

      It works even better if you expand to include neurodiverse individuals as a group, with gay etc being a subset.

      There is a huge spread in abilities and disabilities. What all share is being different from normal, and the reaction of “normal” people to that.

      Some have massive benefits, with relatively small downsides akin to storm (e.g. well adapted autism or ADHD). Others have a mix akin to beast etc. Others are completely screwed over, akin to Rogue.

      In real life, I know people who would slap you in the face for suggesting a cure. I also know others who would bite your hand off, if one was offered.

      • webghost0101@sopuli.xyz
        7·
        10 months ago

        My autism doesn’t require a cure. I have my Issues but overal i am valid and content with my gifts.

        Some people with autism are looking for a cure, There reasons are just as valid.

        You are 100% correct and the xmen disagreeing on this topic is completely true in real life.

        • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
          2·
          10 months ago

          as a person with autism and probably adhd, my take on it is that it would be real fucking nice to be able to take a pill that makes more neurotypical for a couple hours, which is sort of what adhd meds seem to do and a big reason why it annoys me that everyone glosses over my adhd symptoms.

          like yeah there are benefits to having autism, but it’d also be pretty fucking sweet to not feel like i’m going to explode because people around me are being too loud

    • rwhitisissle@lemmy.world
      21·
      10 months ago

      They’re more meant to be an allegory for race, with the competing mutant organizations being the competing parts of the Civil Rights movement. Professor Xavier is MLK and Magneto is Malcolm X.

    • Ann Archy@lemmy.world
      48·
      10 months ago

      No they’re not. They’re mutants with superpowers. Not everything is a gay fable.

      • constnt@lemmy.world
        81·
        10 months ago

        It’s an allegory for the civil rights movement with prof. X as MLK Jr and Magneto as Malcolm X. In proper allegorical fashion this means it can be representative for any form of civil resistance by a repressed class, including the fight for gay rights.

  • daltotron@lemmy.world
    24·
    10 months ago

    i thought she just stole the powers of people she touched, and didn’t kill them instantly with death touch?

    in any case, she can steal the powers of mutants, which is a pretty good bonus ability to have on deck at any given time. tactically, to ensure the survival of future mutants that might get killed/cured, it would be better if, instead of getting cured, rogue just wore fucking gloves. you know, like what she does already. sort of the reason you might want mutants in the first place is cause like, sure, you get a random kid that gets born, and oh no, that kid kills everyone with super extremely toxic nuclear radiation in this super edgy comic where wolverine has to kill him, instead of just like putting the kid in a zero-waste nuclear power plant or whatever. or like a suit. you get that, but occasionally you also get somebody like forge, who can construct fucking insane technology, occasionally you get someone like prof. x, who has omega cranium dome, and can use the internet with his brain.

    oh, but then, forge’s technology is too dangerous, so we gotta cure him, and prof. x can read everyone’s mind, so we gotta cure him so he doesn’t see that i’m into freaky porn that will cause him to clutch his head and go “AUUUGHHHHH” and then faint, as is the fate of every psychic.

    basically all that I’m saying is that this kind of mirrors exactly the same way that we look at neurodivergence or disability in real life. everyone’s like, oh, we need to cure the neurodivergence with insane medication, or gene therapy, and the disabled people should be walking around on crazy robot legs! but then the robot legs were too heavy, and the anchor points that were directly mounted to your bones were super uncomfortable, and since people’s body composition changes over time, the robot legs don’t fit anymore, so you gotta buy another specialty production 50,000 dollar pair since it’s not a mass production market, and, oop, since you’re only moving around with robot legs and using 5% of your body in your thighs to work out, now you’re fucked, instead of being jacked, like you would if you used a wheelchair. and oops, look like the robot legs have shit battery life.

    and then realistically all of what people in wheelchairs wanted to be able to do was to like, use the bathroom effectively.

    i’m not making the kind of blanket statement that, say, curing someone who’s got such mental illness that they’re nigh catatonic, is bad, they might thank you for that, right? but then i’d also say, you know, be careful at trying to “cure” everything, cause oftentimes the cure is some false solution, and oftentimes people really just needed you to have like an iota of empathy and understanding for their situation, so you could work out an actual solution for them, and what they need, and want. realistically you can “cure” a lot of things by just doing something really pretty simple and basically acknowledges the fact that some kind of people fucking exists at all. oh no! i have mental illness! maybe I should just be allowed to fucking exist, though, maybe i only have mental illness because we live in a society and i am the joker. bottom text.

  • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
    1535·
    10 months ago

    Nah, there is nothing wrong with Rogue. She just lives in a world where her evolutionary trait is frowned upon by society. If she was allowed to embrace her true self and kill indiscriminately she would be much happier. Even more so than giving up her genetic advantage.

    It might be lonely for a time but we all know she eventually runs into someone who can neutralize her power.

    Edit: looking online Rogue also gains full control over her powers in some instances.

    • RealFknNito@lemmy.worldEnglish
      35·
      10 months ago

      Gentle reminder there’s a kid who got the power to blow himself up. Once. And he used it. Her perspective on the evolutionary trait is positive because she got a good roll of the dice while those around her got significantly less lucky. She is able to restrain her power unlike instant death touch girl, she’s able to use it multiple times unlike Bailey Hoskins, and her big struggle is she can’t go murder psycho? Again I really think her perspective is positive because she’s got significantly more control and usability out of her mutation.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        7·
        10 months ago

        The page doesn’t say how they figured out he had the power to do this. So- how did they figure out he had the power do to this?

        He was already at Xavier’s school before he blew himself up.

        • RealFknNito@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          10 months ago

          I believe there was either another mutant with the ability to, or they found a way to, detect mutant abilities. I saw a short video that recapped the comics so I unfortunately don’t know a lot of the details. The name of the comic is linked on the wiki though.

      • Notyou@sopuli.xyz
        2·
        10 months ago

        Once…well if it’s the same kid I remember reading about around the recent ‘Trial of Magneto’ then twice. He got resurrected as a zombie due to Wanda trying to resurrect the mutants that were died up on Genosha. She messed up big Zombie attack. He blew up again.

        • RealFknNito@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          10 months ago

          Couldn’t find anything that suggests he was resurrected or even made an appearance outside his specific comics but possibly! Really cruel fate for this kid though.

          • VaultBoyNewVegas@lemmy.world
            2·
            10 months ago

            It’s the comics where horticulture appears and magik goes full demon. I definitely remember a guy who blows himself up completely as I only read genosha a couple months ago.

    • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
      211·
      10 months ago

      Ok but shouldn’t she just end this argument by grabbing Storm? Iirc, not only would she kill her or at least shut her up, she’d also take on her powers and get to be the weather goddess for awhile. Be nice to see what someone with her emotional damage did with that. Would it be “You get a tornado! You get a tornado! Everyone gets a tornado!” Or "I’m just gonna send the rain to the starving drought-stricken children in Africa and let the sun shine rainbows on the Pride parade, I wanna bring joy for once in my fucked-up life! "

      • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
        17·
        10 months ago

        Yeah, rogue is the true master of adaptation. Comic book rogue even gets to keep their powers indefinitely, if she absorbs long enough. She has the potential to become the most powerful being in the marvel universe.

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
          3·
          10 months ago

          Now I want a rogue based movie.

          Jean Gray being the big bad wasn’t very good but I think rogue could work because he’s a believable character.

    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
      121·
      10 months ago

      but like she clearly doesn’t want to kill people, what you’re saying is effectively that people should be entirely determined by their genetics and have no say in the matter, which is… rather fucked up?

      it gets extra terrible when we remember that a significant chunk of humanity is born with evolutionary traits specifically evolved to help hunter-gatherer tribes, i don’t think people with ADHD and autism want to be compared to someone who kills everyone she touches…

      • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
        113·
        10 months ago

        She doesn’t want to kill people because society has taught her that killing is wrong. There is no societal precedent for someone with her ability. If a shark was raised to believe it was a tuna it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a shark.

        And I know for a fact that ADHD people don’t appreciate the fact they have to medicate to be valued in their society.

        Edit: but can’t you just except that I am on magnetos side, professor x?

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          91·
          10 months ago

          She doesn’t want to kill people because society has taught her that killing is wrong.

          Yeah, something about perpetuating your own species seems like a logical reason to teach people that.

          Also, most people instinctively do not want to kill. That’s why military training has to cram the idea of “you have to kill people” down their trainees’ throats, and reportedly many still don’t pull the trigger when they see they will actually end up killing someone.

          Honestly, this makes me worry about you and what you’ve done or plan to do.

          • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
            110·
            10 months ago

            Lol

            We’re talking about fictional characters. Rogues mutation has the potential to spur a new species of human. Her progeny will define a whole evolutionary line. Your simple mindedness makes me worried people like you vote.

            Rogues only obligation is to preserve the traits she has been given for survival of her offspring.

            Edit: corrected terminology

              • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                3·
                10 months ago

                This is a really good question. Does her power affect the fetus? Is she doomed to always have a miscarriage? Could you solve the abortion issue by figuring out when hew power activates?

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
                15·
                10 months ago

                Like I mentioned before there are instances where rogue has complete control. Also she could find a suitable mate that is powerful enough to withstand her power.

                Edit: I’m glad I could introduce someone to the driving conflict in xmen. Your welcome.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                  6·
                  10 months ago

                  Also she could find a suitable mate that is powerful enough to withstand her power.

                  Such as? And why would she have sex with that person just for that reason? Do you think she’s some sort of mating robot?

            • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
              61·
              10 months ago

              i… i think you need to go watch crash course’s videos on genomics and evolution, this isn’t how evolution works.

              also nice personal insult there, definitely makes people want to listen to anything you have to say

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
                11·
                10 months ago

                Dude literally questioned my morals based on my opinions about xmen. Why don’t you go scold him.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              5·
              10 months ago

              There’s a lot wrong with what you just said.

              1. It’s “Genus”.

              2. Homo is the genus, Sapiens is the species.

              3. Taxonomy works in retrospect. We don’t classify new species nor branches until they already exist. We can’t simply predict.

              4. A species is defined as a group that can interbreed and produce viable, fertile offspring. Mules for instance aren’t a distinct species because they are largely infertile. This is why we classify in retrospect.

              4.5. As a result it’s impossible to know if Rogue would even constitute a new species. She would need to be capable of having children who can have children with each other. And I don’t even want to get into how fucked up the implications of that are. It also means that if Rogue or her children could have viable offspring with ordinary humans, they cannot be different species.

              1. Even if she was a whole new species, Rogue would probably not be an entirely separate Genus either. She would likely be Homo still. The split for her species wouldn’t go that high up in taxonomy.

              2. An organism is not only obligated to preserve its specific traits. It’s obligated to preserve as many traits similar to its own as possible. This is why you’ll see family groups in nature work together. Uncles and aunts will nurture their nieces and nephews because a substantial portion of their own genetics lives on in their siblings’ progeny. They can still pass on some of their traits in that way.

              6.5. This is why some people think gay people exist, from an evolutionary perspective. A tribe with 12 adults and 5 children is able to better provide for their collective kids than a tribe of 12 adults and 6 children. Some of the gay people’s DNA is still in their nieces and nephews.

              1. Sometimes you don’t need to even share genetics with someone else. Completely unrelated cat moms will raise their litters together, because it raises their chance of survival overall.

              This is all basic college biology. You should be able to find it fairly easily.

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
                1·
                10 months ago

                I would argue Rogue would does not benefit from society and remaining lowers her chance of survival because ordinary humans want to kill mutants. See magnetos origin story. Without Professor X’s intervention Rogue would have been killed or she would would have embraced her powers and fought for survival.

                As for if she would be a new species, you don’t have to purposedully inbreed anyone. It would just be a natural part of population growth. It eventually becomes inevitable.

                • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
                  3·
                  10 months ago

                  That’s the definition of a new species however. Until Rogue’s progeny can no longer have viable offspring with anyone except themselves, they aren’t a separate species, let alone genus. This is why dog breeds aren’t different species. They may be different, but they can still have children together that can go on to have other children.